Assembler for AmigaOS?

oRBIT · 11 June 2009, 13:22

Are there any Amiga coders left that still uses assembler? If so, which assembler do you use?
Asm-Pro hasn't been updated for ages (sadly since it has some 68020+ specific flaws that breaks my code written in Asm-One many years ago), and Asm-One hasn't been updated either (I really miss some features here that's available in Asm-Pro).

StingRay · 11 June 2009, 13:26

I use Asm-Pro most of the time mostly because it has better RTG support than ASM-One. If ASM-Pro complains about a valid 68020 instruction I use ASM-One to get the opcode which I then use in ASM-Pro.

oRBIT · 11 June 2009, 13:30

@Stingray: Yeah, that's the way I have been doing aswell..
Strange that no-one has touched(?) the code of Asm-Pro for several years when it's open-source..

StingRay · 11 June 2009, 13:31

Well, did you ever have a look at the source? No further comments needed! I gave up trying to update it a long time ago and several other coders did the same. I just learnt to live with ASM-Pro's bugs.

oRBIT · 11 June 2009, 13:32

I quickly checked the code and well.. "no" :-)

Vortex · 11 June 2009, 13:40

I use ASMOne (I'm nostalgic

), but only code 68000 stuff, so can't really help here.
In case you didn't know already, follow this link for ASMOne info: http://www.theflamearrows.info/documents/asmone.html

Otherwise just forget this post..

StingRay · 11 June 2009, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex

In case you didn't know already, follow this link for ASMOne info: http://www.theflamearrows.info/documents/asmone.html

vs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oRBIT

and Asm-One hasn't been updated either

I bet he knows that link already. :P

oRBIT · 11 June 2009, 13:46

That website hasn't been updated for ages.. And the authors e-mail doesn't work either.

Asman · 11 June 2009, 13:50

I use Asm-One, Asm-Pro, Basm. Asm-Pro sometimes ( very rare ) hangs on my machine. So I decide to clean-up AsmPro source ( really hard and dirty job ) If I find enough free time ofcoz ( startup section cleaned ). I use Basm to compile whdload slaves.

StingRay · 11 June 2009, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asman

So I decide to clean-up AsmPro source ( really hard and dirty job ) If I find enough free time ofcoz ( startup section cleaned ).

I wish you good luck and a lot of spare time, you will need both.

Many had the same idea, nobody succeeded.

Once you finished cleaning up the source I'll be interested to see how many new bugs ASM-Pro will have.

Vortex · 11 June 2009, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by oRBIT

That website hasn't been updated for ages.. And the authors e-mail doesn't work either.

I saw the author (Boushh?) posting on a Dutch Amiga website not so long ago.
The site is in Dutch, so could be tricky, but I'm willing to try and get in contact with him on your behalf...

oRBIT · 11 June 2009, 14:13

@Vortex: That'd be nice.

I've been talking to him a few times over the years..

I actually have a personal version of Asm-One that's newer than the one he has on his website. :-)

Vortex · 11 June 2009, 14:15

Okay will do.

Have to register first, then I'll try to get in contact with him...
Stay tuned.

EDIT: Registered and posted PM. Now we'll just have to wait...

11 June 2009, 21:03

I use asm-pro and asm-one, but mostly asm-pro because asm-one has goofy errors Stingray can't figure out (:

(Remember, Stingray? The wierd one where no matter what, it used 16 colors and acted like it only had 4 colors? So I had to use a screen promotion utility to fix it, and then some wierdness with the debugger STILL not using the right colors so I couldn't see the line I was debugging? (: )

Apollo · 11 June 2009, 22:49

Nowadays I use PhxAss v3.xx. I edit my files under Windows/Linux with (g)Vim.

Thats a bit for historical reasons : when I quit active coding in the mid-90s I used the same assembler together with GoldEd.

Anding · 13 June 2009, 05:19

I use Devpac 3. There is a great manual available in PDF format and the package includes an IDE. I'm sure there are technical reasons for preferring some of the alternatives, but for ease of use for a non-expert, I think Devpac is great.

Leffmann · 13 June 2009, 10:01

I use ASM-One to just try things quickly, and PhxAss if I write more code/several files.

For PhxAss I edit in Windows using Notepad++ or UltraEdit together with a small program that removes some whitespace first which PhxAss (and every other assembler on the Amiga it seems) doesn't like. GenAm (the actual assembler that the Devpac IDE uses) and PhxAss seem very equal to me, both superior to ASM-One and derivatives in a way since ASM-One only handles single files and can't link. I've never tried Barfly but it seems to be a complete and extended suite.

EDIT: did anyone ever try Argasm?

hitchhikr · 13 June 2009, 15:31

I use vasm/vlink and sometimes asmpro or monam for some debugging.

Wepl · 13 June 2009, 18:37

basm, vim and golded as editor

oRBIT · 15 June 2009, 10:29

Any Amiga-assembler still being developed? If the Natami ever gets released (with it's custom 68050 CPU), it would be really nice to have support for the new extended instructionset that comes with it..

Leffmann · 15 June 2009, 11:40

VAsm is still being developed, and there is an AmigaOS port, so it's not unlikely that the authors would be willing to add some instructions for the 680x0 target.

Galahad/FLT · 15 June 2009, 11:49

I used to use Devpac all the time, but since I started doing WHDLoad stuff, I used Cygnus Editor for the typing, and Phxass for the assembling

Photon · 15 June 2009, 15:32

Asm-One 1.02+ here. Whenever I need a 68020 instruction I optimize. Hehe

StingRay · 15 June 2009, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

Asm-One 1.02+ here. Whenever I need a 68020 instruction I optimize. Hehe

How do you optimize move.w (ax,dx.w*8),dx then? ;D

Photon · 16 June 2009, 14:39

I recode the loop so it can be omitted.

StingRay · 16 June 2009, 15:16

I'd like to see you doing that in a vector routine.

Meanwhile I'll grab the interleaved sin/cos values with the nifty 68020+ instruction mentioned above.

Photon · 17 June 2009, 01:26

How many instructions (well, 68000 cycles) for projecting a vertex from a matrix?

I'm sure a standard optimum chunk of instructions have evolved by now, curious

Vortex · 29 June 2009, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex

Okay will do.

Have to register first, then I'll try to get in contact with him...
Stay tuned.

EDIT: Registered and posted PM. Now we'll just have to wait...

Nothing yet...

01 July 2009, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex

Nothing yet...

Well, what's on your mind

I got the PM from Vortex. There is also a 'new' e-mail address on my site (http://www.theflamearrows.info/docum...reportbug.html), and that works. You may be using an older e-mail address..

And before anyone starts: I want to apologize for not working on ASM-One the last few years. Besides having moved and picked up other hobbies, there was also little interest from the scene itself (I can count the number of bug reports from the past three years on one hand !!). And with so little interest, the drive to work on ASM-One has simply melted away.

But anyways, if there is something you would like to ask than feel free to do so

StingRay · 01 July 2009, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boushh

And before anyone starts: I want to apologize for not working on ASM-One the last few years.

There is absolutely no need to apologize!

You did a lot of work on ASM1 already and it's appreciated. I wouldn't say no to a new update though.

Asman · 01 July 2009, 12:18

Hi Boushh,

I have only one question. Is possible to obtain sources for Asm-One ?

Regards

01 July 2009, 13:39

Okay,

Thnx for the kind words

Let me promise you all the following:

I'll make time in july to fire op my Amiga's (they are currently not operational due to no space to place them) and see what I can still do about ASM-One. My priority will be to check if the source is readable enough and try to clean up unclear parts as much as I can. I'll also see if I can finish some things I have been working on and have only been pratly implemented.

Then, around december this year, I'll decide to go on, or to make the source available and let the community continue the work.

For the time being, I'll make the original source of ASM-One (1,02 version) available on my website this weekend. I don't think Rune will mind. People may use it to work on AsmPro. However, AsmPro was based on the unreleased ASM-One v1.28 and even if you would replace all the labels from the original ASM-One, you will still have more than 50% of unknown labels. But it may help people seeking specific parts of AsmPro.

I hope that will please some

Asman · 01 July 2009, 13:56

Great news I didn't expect so much. Thank you.

StingRay · 01 July 2009, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boushh

For the time being, I'll make the original source of ASM-One (1,02 version) available on my website this weekend. I don't think Rune will mind.

This is great news! Thanks!!!

Vortex · 01 July 2009, 20:11

Hi Boushh, welcome to EAB and thanks for replying.
Great to have another Dutch guy on board...

Hope you'll get interested in the Amiga again.
There's actually people here making new demo's for the mig...

@ oRBIT: Mission accomplished

Kortenhoef, da's niet zo heel ver van mijn woonplaats vandaan...

02 July 2009, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex

@ oRBIT: Mission accomplished

Yeah, and no word from him yet

Quote:

Kortenhoef, da's niet zo heel ver van mijn woonplaats vandaan...

Als je in Nederland woont is iets zelden ergens ver vandaan

But let us not use our native language here. Send me a PM if you want to talk Dutch

Vortex · 02 July 2009, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by boushh

Yeah, and no word from him yet

Well, I think i've seen him on a forum somewhere. I can try to contact him for you if you like....

Anyway, back to serious mode...

02 July 2009, 14:18

Well,

I have no hurry. But he seemed to really have some serious questions for me. So yeah, if you could redirect hem here, that would probaly help...

02 July 2009, 22:25

As promised I fired up my trusty old A4K, or that was what I thought. But after not having been used for more than 8 months it didn't realy feel like booting

I thought it was the PPC card, but did check the old GVP SCSI Card, HDDs first. But nothing. Then I sadly replaced the PPC card with an old A3640 and there was life again. Not to be outdone by the old bugger, I put back the PPC card and... it booted again

Well, because I left out the floppy/CDROM section I used an external diskdrive, but apperently that doesn't work without the internal diskdrive connected. So I connected it to my LAN and started copying the ASM-One source (only had an old backup left). Which also includes the original source of ASM-One.

That source is attached to this message...

To give you an example of how much ASM-One has grown in (almost) 20 years: The original source is about 575 Kb, the current source is about 1.7 Mb. The original source has 32958 lines of code, the current source has 76890 lines of code (excluding some includes).

Assemble the source at your own risk (if you get it assembled at all).

If you use the source (or part of it) then please pay your respect to Rune Gram-Madsen by mentioning him in what ever you used the source for !!!

Other than that, have fun

StingRay · 02 July 2009, 22:40

Wow, faster than expected! You rock!

Thanks for this nice gift, the legacy of Promax lives on. \o/

11 June 2009, 13:22	#1
oRBIT Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gothenburg/Sweden Age: 37 Posts: 173	Assembler for AmigaOS? Are there any Amiga coders left that still uses assembler? If so, which assembler do you use? Asm-Pro hasn't been updated for ages (sadly since it has some 68020+ specific flaws that breaks my code written in Asm-One many years ago), and Asm-One hasn't been updated either (I really miss some features here that's available in Asm-Pro).

11 June 2009, 13:50	#9
Asman Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Poland Age: 34 Posts: 347	I use Asm-One, Asm-Pro, Basm. Asm-Pro sometimes ( very rare ) hangs on my machine. So I decide to clean-up AsmPro source ( really hard and dirty job ) If I find enough free time ofcoz ( startup section cleaned ). I use Basm to compile whdload slaves. __________________ Asman

11 June 2009, 14:15	#13
Vortex Used Register Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Headvillage / The Nethervoids Age: 39 Posts: 103	Okay will do. Have to register first, then I'll try to get in contact with him... Stay tuned. EDIT: Registered and posted PM. Now we'll just have to wait... Last edited by Vortex; 11 June 2009 at 15:03.

13 June 2009, 10:01	#17
Leffmann Leffmann with two n's Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,190	I use ASM-One to just try things quickly, and PhxAss if I write more code/several files. For PhxAss I edit in Windows using Notepad++ or UltraEdit together with a small program that removes some whitespace first which PhxAss (and every other assembler on the Amiga it seems) doesn't like. GenAm (the actual assembler that the Devpac IDE uses) and PhxAss seem very equal to me, both superior to ASM-One and derivatives in a way since ASM-One only handles single files and can't link. I've never tried Barfly but it seems to be a complete and extended suite. EDIT: did anyone ever try Argasm? Last edited by Leffmann; 13 June 2009 at 10:07.

15 June 2009, 11:49	#22
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 39 Posts: 5,028	I used to use Devpac all the time, but since I started doing WHDLoad stuff, I used Cygnus Editor for the typing, and Phxass for the assembling __________________ Former member of: LSD, Scoopex, Razor 1911, Dual Crew Shining, Rednex, Fairlight. www.southwestscrap.co.uk

11 June 2009, 13:26	#2
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 4,547	I use Asm-Pro most of the time mostly because it has better RTG support than ASM-One. If ASM-Pro complains about a valid 68020 instruction I use ASM-One to get the opcode which I then use in ASM-Pro.

11 June 2009, 13:30	#3
oRBIT Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gothenburg/Sweden Age: 37 Posts: 173	@Stingray: Yeah, that's the way I have been doing aswell.. Strange that no-one has touched(?) the code of Asm-Pro for several years when it's open-source..

11 June 2009, 13:31	#4
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 4,547	Well, did you ever have a look at the source? No further comments needed! I gave up trying to update it a long time ago and several other coders did the same. I just learnt to live with ASM-Pro's bugs.

11 June 2009, 13:32	#5
oRBIT Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gothenburg/Sweden Age: 37 Posts: 173	I quickly checked the code and well.. "no" :-)

11 June 2009, 13:40	#6
Vortex Used Register Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Headvillage / The Nethervoids Age: 39 Posts: 103	I use ASMOne (I'm nostalgic ), but only code 68000 stuff, so can't really help here. In case you didn't know already, follow this link for ASMOne info: http://www.theflamearrows.info/documents/asmone.html Otherwise just forget this post..

11 June 2009, 13:46	#8
oRBIT Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gothenburg/Sweden Age: 37 Posts: 173	That website hasn't been updated for ages.. And the authors e-mail doesn't work either.

11 June 2009, 14:13	#12
oRBIT Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gothenburg/Sweden Age: 37 Posts: 173	@Vortex: That'd be nice. I've been talking to him a few times over the years.. I actually have a personal version of Asm-One that's newer than the one he has on his website. :-)

11 June 2009, 21:03	#14
Truck Posts: n/a	I use asm-pro and asm-one, but mostly asm-pro because asm-one has goofy errors Stingray can't figure out (: (Remember, Stingray? The wierd one where no matter what, it used 16 colors and acted like it only had 4 colors? So I had to use a screen promotion utility to fix it, and then some wierdness with the debugger STILL not using the right colors so I couldn't see the line I was debugging? (: )

11 June 2009, 22:49	#15
Apollo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Germany Age: 38 Posts: 14	Nowadays I use PhxAss v3.xx. I edit my files under Windows/Linux with (g)Vim. Thats a bit for historical reasons : when I quit active coding in the mid-90s I used the same assembler together with GoldEd.

13 June 2009, 05:19	#16
Anding Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 55	I use Devpac 3. There is a great manual available in PDF format and the package includes an IDE. I'm sure there are technical reasons for preferring some of the alternatives, but for ease of use for a non-expert, I think Devpac is great.

13 June 2009, 15:31	#18
hitchhikr Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: somewhere Posts: 326	I use vasm/vlink and sometimes asmpro or monam for some debugging.

13 June 2009, 18:37	#19
Wepl Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 504	basm, vim and golded as editor

15 June 2009, 10:29	#20
oRBIT Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gothenburg/Sweden Age: 37 Posts: 173	Any Amiga-assembler still being developed? If the Natami ever gets released (with it's custom 68050 CPU), it would be really nice to have support for the new extended instructionset that comes with it..

15 June 2009, 11:40	#21
Leffmann Leffmann with two n's Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,190	VAsm is still being developed, and there is an AmigaOS port, so it's not unlikely that the authors would be willing to add some instructions for the 680x0 target.

15 June 2009, 15:32	#23
Photon Oldskool Demo Coder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hult / Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 3,674	Asm-One 1.02+ here. Whenever I need a 68020 instruction I optimize. Hehe __________________ Henrik. Programs Amiga demos, iPhone apps, websites, etc. A1000/512k - A500 2.0/040@28/4M/.5M slowmem/8M/SCSI/CF - A600 portable II 3.1/ACA630/WiFi/CF - 'A1700' 3.1/68060@80/64M/IDE-Fix Express/CF - etc."The difference between PC and Amiga is that 10yo PCs are worth $0. 20yo Amigas are worth a lot, and Amigas that are only 15yo cost a fortune!" If you like Portal 2, try my >> single player and cooperation maps <<

16 June 2009, 14:39	#25
Photon Oldskool Demo Coder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hult / Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 3,674	I recode the loop so it can be omitted. __________________ Henrik. Programs Amiga demos, iPhone apps, websites, etc. A1000/512k - A500 2.0/040@28/4M/.5M slowmem/8M/SCSI/CF - A600 portable II 3.1/ACA630/WiFi/CF - 'A1700' 3.1/68060@80/64M/IDE-Fix Express/CF - etc."The difference between PC and Amiga is that 10yo PCs are worth $0. 20yo Amigas are worth a lot, and Amigas that are only 15yo cost a fortune!" If you like Portal 2, try my >> single player and cooperation maps <<

16 June 2009, 15:16	#26
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 4,547	I'd like to see you doing that in a vector routine. Meanwhile I'll grab the interleaved sin/cos values with the nifty 68020+ instruction mentioned above.

17 June 2009, 01:26	#27
Photon Oldskool Demo Coder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hult / Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 3,674	How many instructions (well, 68000 cycles) for projecting a vertex from a matrix? I'm sure a standard optimum chunk of instructions have evolved by now, curious __________________ Henrik. Programs Amiga demos, iPhone apps, websites, etc. A1000/512k - A500 2.0/040@28/4M/.5M slowmem/8M/SCSI/CF - A600 portable II 3.1/ACA630/WiFi/CF - 'A1700' 3.1/68060@80/64M/IDE-Fix Express/CF - etc."The difference between PC and Amiga is that 10yo PCs are worth $0. 20yo Amigas are worth a lot, and Amigas that are only 15yo cost a fortune!" If you like Portal 2, try my >> single player and cooperation maps <<

01 July 2009, 12:18	#31
Asman Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Poland Age: 34 Posts: 347	Hi Boushh, I have only one question. Is possible to obtain sources for Asm-One ? Regards __________________ Asman

01 July 2009, 13:39	#32
Boushh Posts: n/a	Okay, Thnx for the kind words Let me promise you all the following: I'll make time in july to fire op my Amiga's (they are currently not operational due to no space to place them) and see what I can still do about ASM-One. My priority will be to check if the source is readable enough and try to clean up unclear parts as much as I can. I'll also see if I can finish some things I have been working on and have only been pratly implemented. Then, around december this year, I'll decide to go on, or to make the source available and let the community continue the work. For the time being, I'll make the original source of ASM-One (1,02 version) available on my website this weekend. I don't think Rune will mind. People may use it to work on AsmPro. However, AsmPro was based on the unreleased ASM-One v1.28 and even if you would replace all the labels from the original ASM-One, you will still have more than 50% of unknown labels. But it may help people seeking specific parts of AsmPro. I hope that will please some

01 July 2009, 13:56	#33
Asman Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Poland Age: 34 Posts: 347	Great news I didn't expect so much. Thank you. __________________ Asman

01 July 2009, 20:11	#35
Vortex Used Register Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Headvillage / The Nethervoids Age: 39 Posts: 103	Hi Boushh, welcome to EAB and thanks for replying. Great to have another Dutch guy on board... Hope you'll get interested in the Amiga again. There's actually people here making new demo's for the mig... @ oRBIT: Mission accomplished Kortenhoef, da's niet zo heel ver van mijn woonplaats vandaan...

02 July 2009, 14:18	#38
Boushh Posts: n/a	Well, I have no hurry. But he seemed to really have some serious questions for me. So yeah, if you could redirect hem here, that would probaly help...

02 July 2009, 22:40	#40
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 4,547	Wow, faster than expected! You rock! Thanks for this nice gift, the legacy of Promax lives on. \o/

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