Kickflash OS4: noob question!

woody.cool · 02 June 2009, 16:33

Hi all,

Not really a problem, more of a question.

Is it possible to upload a Kickstart ROM image into the flash memory on the Kickflash OS4 and use that as my Kickstart?
What I intend to do is to have Kickstart 3.1 and a recent or patched scsi.device so that it can recognise drives bigger than than the normal 4GB properly.

Is it even worth doing? or should I concentrate my efforts on trying to put a 'Kickstart 3.9' image (basically, 3.1 with Amiga OS ROM Update)?

The machine(s) I intend to use it on are either my A2000 or my A3000 (my A2000 has 1.3 ROM chips and the A3000 has 2.04 ROM chips)

Thanks in advance
woody.cool

alexh · 02 June 2009, 17:05

Yes.

http://www.coyoteflux.nl/flashtools.htm

woody.cool · 02 June 2009, 17:43

Cheers Alex

The Kickflash hasn't arrived yet, but I've had word that it's on it's way

woody.cool · 06 June 2009, 17:35

Right, it's all arrived, but I'm having difficulties with the Kickflash OS4

I've uploaded a 3.1 ROM (A3000 version, as it's in my A3000) but it's not even attempting to boot the new kickstart, even though it's uploaded.
I've tried taking the jumper off (so that the Flash ROM is write protected) to get it to boot, but it still doesn't attempt to boot.

Any ideas?
Do I have a duff card?

Doobrey · 06 June 2009, 19:19

#1. Does your CPU card support ROM remapping ? (Cyberstorms + A3640)

#2. Does your A3000 have real 3.1 Kickstarts ? (There's a 'feature' of the KickFlash firmware, it won't remap if the first 16 bytes of the ROM image match that found in the physical ROMs)

woody.cool · 06 June 2009, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doobrey

#1. Does your CPU card support ROM remapping ? (Cyberstorms + A3640)

No. It's just an '030 (the one that comes as standard with the A3000)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doobrey

#2. Does your A3000 have real 3.1 Kickstarts ? (There's a 'feature' of the KickFlash firmware, it won't remap if the first 16 bytes of the ROM image match that found in the physical ROMs)

No, it has 2.04 ROMs (37.175) .... that was one of the ideas of getting a Kickflash OS4, so that I could kick 3.1 with patches to scsi.device etc.

fryguy · 07 June 2009, 00:57

@woody.cool: I have the same problem. From what i read i thought it was possible to use a newer rom than you own if you had a newer firmware on the card but i didn't do any difference.

I'm using an A4000 with Apollo 4040 with 3.0 roms though and tried putting 3.1 on the Kickflash.

Jope · 07 June 2009, 10:54

So.. Neither of you guys can use the rom remapping feature of the Kickflash then.

Rekick into 3.1 with skick or similar, then have the kickflash configured so that it doesn't show any of the installed modules unless 3.1 is detected.

hit · 07 June 2009, 17:23

are we talking about the Kickflash by Individual Computers? if so, maybe PM user "Schoenfeld". he is the one behind IC. maybe he didnt saw this postings and he would answer to a private message.

Jope · 08 June 2009, 07:13

Jens doesn't visit forums very frequently. If you wish to get hold of him, send him an email. The address can be found at his site.

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

So.. Neither of you guys can use the rom remapping feature of the Kickflash then.

When I uploaded the Kickstart ROM file to the Kickflash, I was asked if I wanted to restrict the Kickflash to only do it's thing when on 3.1 .... I said NO to this question, assuming this ment that it'll do it's stuff regardless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Rekick into 3.1 with skick or similar, then have the kickflash configured so that it doesn't show any of the installed modules unless 3.1 is detected.

I'm having problems getting a compatible Kickstart 3.1 image for SKick.

I've tried the A3000 one I have, but SKick tells me it has an incorrect checksum.
I've tried the A1200 one, that doesn't work - boots to a yellow screen.
I've tried the A500/A600/A2000 one, it works, but does not boot the hard drive (I just get the purple 'insert disk' screen) which is what I expected, because they don't have scsi.device built in!

Any ideas?

Jope · 08 June 2009, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody.cool

When I uploaded the Kickstart ROM file to the Kickflash, I was asked if I wanted to restrict the Kickflash to only do it's thing when on 3.1 .... I said NO to this question, assuming this ment that it'll do it's stuff regardless.

Yes indeed, it will now show the modules even to 2.04. Might not be what you wanted.

Quote:

I've tried the A3000 one I have, but SKick tells me it has an incorrect checksum.
I've tried the A1200 one, that doesn't work - boots to a yellow screen.
I've tried the A500/A600/A2000 one, it works, but does not boot the hard drive (I just get the purple 'insert disk' screen) which is what I expected, because they don't have scsi.device built in!

Any ideas?

Get another A3000 one. Are you sure it isn't a superkickstart version? Snip off the trailing bonus code if it is.

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Yes indeed, it will now show the modules even to 2.04. Might not be what you wanted.

I want to get my 2.04 to kick into 3.1 via the Kickflash!
Is that possible? I'm starting to doubt it now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Get another A3000 one. Are you sure it isn't a superkickstart version? Snip off the trailing bonus code if it is.

Nope, it's not a Superkickstart A3000 .... it has proper 2.04 chips in it.
Also, the A3000 ROMs I got were Kickstart 3.1 (40.005) A3000.rom and Kickstart 3.1 (40.55) A3000.rom .... both of which don't work.
They are not SuperKickstart versions.

These came from a download of Kickstarts off the net ... it's a complete collection, and I'm sure these ROM images work fine in WinUAE.

It's now getting to the stage where I think I had a wasted purchase

hit · 08 June 2009, 14:22

i had a look into the manual again. it says, using "Firmware 1.0" only allows install of 3.5 and 3.9 RomUpdates - but not kickstart ROMS - "Firmware 1.1" will change this.
so can you confirm you have another version than 1.0 of the firmware in use?

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hit

i had a look into the manual again. it says, using "Firmware 1.0" only allows install of 3.5 and 3.9 RomUpdates - but not kickstart ROMS - "Firmware 1.1" will change this.
so can you confirm you have another version than 1.0 of the firmware in use?

I have tried it with Firmware 1.52 and 1.6 .... so yes, higher than 1.0

hit · 08 June 2009, 15:23

tried to find 1.6 on their page, but only found package with 1.52, even www.coyoteflux.nl says, IC has 1.6 for downloading on their website (they really need someone to update their support / product page).
well, strange device, or just badly documented. did you tried contacting IC using their online webmailer ( http://amiga.think42.com/email/email.htm ) ?

Edit: 1.6 can be found at www.coyoteflux.nl - just missed it at first sight

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 15:51

Just been discussing this on the EAB chat thingy
Jope reckons it don't work on my 030, apparently I need an 040 (or better) that supports 'Kickstart Remapping'

Is this correct?

alexh · 08 June 2009, 16:55

I think he is wrong. 030 accelerators with MMU's support remapping. But is that how Kickflash works?

I would have imagined Kickflash would work fine, cept the authors seem to have included some sort of "anti-piracy protection" in it to prevent people from avoiding buying a real KS3.1 ROM.

I would imagine that Individual Computing might consider taking this limitation out these days. Contact them direct.

Otherwise you're gonna have to buy a KS3.1 ROM

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 16:56

So why don't it work?

Calgor · 08 June 2009, 17:13

@alexh

Where is this anti-piracy protection to force buying a real KS3.1 ROM documented?

In the KickFlashOS4 docs it says you should be able to use KS2.04 and up, and also that the yes/no question on whether to apply rom updates is for those who have software-mapped KS3.1.

Quote:

The conditional activation only makes sense if you don’t have a real 3.1 kickstart rom, but still want to have the RomUpdates in the flash memory. In this case you can soft-kick V3.1, and Kickflash will only activate itself after the reboot with the soft-kicked V3.1 rom.

So the documentation is saying that software mapping KS3.1 (through some other program? - why not just use KFOS4 for everything) and then using KickFlashOS4 to apply 3.5/3.9 ROM updates is a valid use. Well if another program does it, you still need a reboot - so perhaps the copy protection is for Kickflash booting a 3.1 ROM image?

alexh · 08 June 2009, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

Where is this anti-piracy protection to force buying a real KS3.1 ROM documented?

I had heard it before and then Doobrey wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doobrey

#2. Does your A3000 have real 3.1 Kickstarts ? (There's a 'feature' of the KickFlash firmware, it won't remap if the first 16 bytes of the ROM image match that found in the physical ROMs)

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 18:12

I've no idea at all now!
I bought the thing from AmigaKit ..... do you reckon their support line will know?

hit · 08 June 2009, 18:13

woody has 1.3 and 2.04. so a flashed 3.1 should get started by the firmware. otherwise the device is really useless :/

Jope · 08 June 2009, 18:14

The kickflash's remapping feature only works on A3640, CS1, CS2, CS3, CSPPC.. It uses the special maprom function of these cards, just like Piru's Blizkick.

There is no anti piracy, it will remap 3.1 onto a machine that has 3.0 ROMs, but only with one of those CPU cards.

If you don't have one of the aforementioned cards, you must get the machine to 3.1 by other means and then just have your modules on the kickflash and make sure that you configure the kickflash to only offer modules if 3.1 is detected.

I'm sure it would be possible to code a custom firmware that supported skick/mkick style relocation, but at the moment that doesn't exist.

hit · 08 June 2009, 18:23

cant find kickflash at amigakit store. did the product description mentioned the above restriction - aka turnkey solution?! i only can recall of a "zorro II" driven amiga is needed and mentioned. nothing about a special accelerator :/

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hit

woody has 1.3 and 2.04

Actually, I only have 2.04 ..... my A3000 just has 2.04 chips (37.175) .... it's not a SuperKickstart machine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hit

so a flashed 3.1 should get started by the firmware. otherwise the device is really useless :/

My thoughts exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by hit

cant find kickflash at amigakit store. did the product description mentioned the above restriction - aka turnkey solution?! i only can recall of a "zorro II" driven amiga is needed and mentioned. nothing about a special accelerator :/

That's the annoying thing .... there was no mention of this 'issue' at all.
I wish I'd have known before I spent the money.

Oddly, they seem to have removed the product from their website.

hit · 08 June 2009, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody.cool

Oddly, they seem to have removed the product from their website.

google cache still had a copy of the advert. Lets see, if amigakit.com (eab account) will say something about that - for not fullfilling the advertised possibilities ("any amiga with zorro slot") i'd say - money back!

Edit: its still at amigakit.com, as of today, even not to be found while searching for "kickflash":
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=268

Jope · 08 June 2009, 21:33

As you will note, they made no mention of a softkicking feature. It does all that they advertised even in a Zorro II machine.

The kickflash will show the modules that you installed in there when you plug it in and turn on the power.

It wasn't until 2004 when the Kickflash started to support kickstart remapping.

You can read all about that here: http://amiga.think42.com/news/news98_e.htm

woody.cool · 08 June 2009, 22:14

OK, so if that's the case, if I was to say ..... just upload an updated scsi.device into the Kickflash, is there a way I can tell if it's happened or not?
(does the Kickflash display some kind of confirmation message?)

Doobrey · 08 June 2009, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody.cool

if I was to say ..... just upload an updated scsi.device into the Kickflash, is there a way I can tell if it's happened or not?

Open a shell/CLI and type:
version scsi.device

If it says 'scsi.device 37.19' then something went wrong (such as you tried to install a scsi.device for a different Amiga) and it's still using the one from your 2.04 ROM

Or you could use a program like LoadModule, again at the CLI type:
LoadModule LIST
and it should print out a list of all residents added to the KickTag list.

hit · 08 June 2009, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

As you will note, they made no mention of a softkicking feature. It does all that they advertised even in a Zorro II machine.

yeah and they missed to mention the fact of 3.1 requierements for "ROM updates" while the thing actually is called "-AmigaOS ROM Update-". "Rom Updates" is missleading IMHO.

fryguy · 08 June 2009, 23:42

@Doobrey: i presume the first 16 bytes of the ROM is important and can't be changed to fool it ?

(i.e using the first 16 bytes from a 3.0 rom in a 3.1 romimage.)

Doobrey · 09 June 2009, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor
Where is this anti-piracy protection to force buying a real KS3.1 ROM documented?

I had heard it before and then Doobrey wrote:

Nooo, if that was true, it'd be the most stupid copy protection in the world.
(why stop you kicking a 3.1 image when it finds real 3.1 ROMs,but allow you to kick a 3.1 image when it only finds 2.04?)

It looks like it's more of a safety check to see if it's already remapped the ROM.
IMHO, it's a stupid way of doing it. They should have checked the ROM checksum (at the end of the ROM) vs that of the ROM image instead of looking at the first 16 bytes ...which can be the same if you make a custom ROM image!

Doobrey · 09 June 2009, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryguy

@Doobrey: i presume the first 16 bytes of the ROM is important and can't be changed to fool it ?

There are a couple of fields you could change, the ROM revision is the one you want.

Looking at the start of the ROM..

Code:

OFFSET VALUE
0000: 1114      512K ROM ID
0002: 4EF9      OPCODE FOR 'JMP'
0004: 00F800D2  ADDRESS OF THE INIT CODE
0008: 0000FFFF  ?????
000C: 0028      ROM VERSION
000E: 0044      ROM REVISION

In this example,it's 40.68 ($28,$44) you could bump the revision to 69($45).
Remember to recalculate the ROM checksum afterwards. (SumKick from the MKick archive is quick and easy)

fryguy · 10 June 2009, 01:05

@Doobrey: thanks might try it out, but i just ordered real 3.1 roms.

rkauer · 11 June 2009, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody.cool

<SNIP>

I've tried the A500/A600/A2000 one, it works, but does not boot the hard drive (I just get the purple 'insert disk' screen) which is what I expected, because they don't have scsi.device built in!

Any ideas?

A minor correction: the 40.063 ROM have a SCSI.device, but intended for the IDE of the A600 or another Amiga (1000/500/2000)with the IDE Gayle "emulator".

woody.cool · 11 June 2009, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

A minor correction: the 40.063 ROM have a SCSI.device, but intended for the IDE of the A600 or another Amiga (1000/500/2000)with the IDE Gayle "emulator".

Fair enough!
Either way, it don't boot from HD on an A3000

rkauer · 11 June 2009, 19:16

Of course not! The A3000 have a real SCSI controller, not a IDE one transvestite on SCSI...

woody.cool · 11 June 2009, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

Of course not! The A3000 have a real SCSI controller, not a IDE one transvestite on SCSI...

exactly!

Still not got round to seeing if my Kickflash is actually working
I'm gonna flash just an update of scsi.device and check with the version command if it even works or not.

07 June 2009, 17:23	#9
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,116	are we talking about the Kickflash by Individual Computers? if so, maybe PM user "Schoenfeld". he is the one behind IC. maybe he didnt saw this postings and he would answer to a private message. Last edited by hit; 07 June 2009 at 17:28. Reason: we had the jumper issue already (off)

08 June 2009, 16:55	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,506	I think he is wrong. 030 accelerators with MMU's support remapping. But is that how Kickflash works? I would have imagined Kickflash would work fine, cept the authors seem to have included some sort of "anti-piracy protection" in it to prevent people from avoiding buying a real KS3.1 ROM. I would imagine that Individual Computing might consider taking this limitation out these days. Contact them direct. Otherwise you're gonna have to buy a KS3.1 ROM __________________ Thalion Webshrine Last edited by alexh; 08 June 2009 at 18:06.

08 June 2009, 21:33	#28
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 32 Posts: 4,061	As you will note, they made no mention of a softkicking feature. It does all that they advertised even in a Zorro II machine. The kickflash will show the modules that you installed in there when you plug it in and turn on the power. It wasn't until 2004 when the Kickflash started to support kickstart remapping. You can read all about that here: http://amiga.think42.com/news/news98_e.htm Last edited by Jope; 08 June 2009 at 21:39.

11 June 2009, 19:16	#38
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 47 Posts: 3,477	Of course not! The A3000 have a real SCSI controller, not a IDE one transvestite on SCSI... __________________ Amigan since 1989 Known drunk since 1982 (don't know quite well, I was drunk) 13 Amigas at home Finally a Z3 one! I'll stick with 'Cachaça do Inter' for this week: Chivas gives headaches! :D

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02 June 2009, 16:33	#1
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	Kickflash OS4: noob question! Hi all, Not really a problem, more of a question. Is it possible to upload a Kickstart ROM image into the flash memory on the Kickflash OS4 and use that as my Kickstart? What I intend to do is to have Kickstart 3.1 and a recent or patched scsi.device so that it can recognise drives bigger than than the normal 4GB properly. Is it even worth doing? or should I concentrate my efforts on trying to put a 'Kickstart 3.9' image (basically, 3.1 with Amiga OS ROM Update)? The machine(s) I intend to use it on are either my A2000 or my A3000 (my A2000 has 1.3 ROM chips and the A3000 has 2.04 ROM chips) Thanks in advance woody.cool

02 June 2009, 17:05	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,506	Yes. http://www.coyoteflux.nl/flashtools.htm __________________ Thalion Webshrine

02 June 2009, 17:43	#3
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	Cheers Alex The Kickflash hasn't arrived yet, but I've had word that it's on it's way

06 June 2009, 17:35	#4
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	Right, it's all arrived, but I'm having difficulties with the Kickflash OS4 I've uploaded a 3.1 ROM (A3000 version, as it's in my A3000) but it's not even attempting to boot the new kickstart, even though it's uploaded. I've tried taking the jumper off (so that the Flash ROM is write protected) to get it to boot, but it still doesn't attempt to boot. Any ideas? Do I have a duff card?

06 June 2009, 19:19	#5
Doobrey Hamster tamer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Out in the woods Posts: 122	#1. Does your CPU card support ROM remapping ? (Cyberstorms + A3640) #2. Does your A3000 have real 3.1 Kickstarts ? (There's a 'feature' of the KickFlash firmware, it won't remap if the first 16 bytes of the ROM image match that found in the physical ROMs)

07 June 2009, 00:57	#7
fryguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Karlsborg, Sweden Age: 33 Posts: 464	@woody.cool: I have the same problem. From what i read i thought it was possible to use a newer rom than you own if you had a newer firmware on the card but i didn't do any difference. I'm using an A4000 with Apollo 4040 with 3.0 roms though and tried putting 3.1 on the Kickflash.

07 June 2009, 10:54	#8
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 32 Posts: 4,061	So.. Neither of you guys can use the rom remapping feature of the Kickflash then. Rekick into 3.1 with skick or similar, then have the kickflash configured so that it doesn't show any of the installed modules unless 3.1 is detected.

08 June 2009, 07:13	#10
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 32 Posts: 4,061	Jens doesn't visit forums very frequently. If you wish to get hold of him, send him an email. The address can be found at his site.

08 June 2009, 14:22	#14
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,116	i had a look into the manual again. it says, using "Firmware 1.0" only allows install of 3.5 and 3.9 RomUpdates - but not kickstart ROMS - "Firmware 1.1" will change this. so can you confirm you have another version than 1.0 of the firmware in use?

08 June 2009, 15:23	#16
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,116	tried to find 1.6 on their page, but only found package with 1.52, even www.coyoteflux.nl says, IC has 1.6 for downloading on their website (they really need someone to update their support / product page). well, strange device, or just badly documented. did you tried contacting IC using their online webmailer ( http://amiga.think42.com/email/email.htm ) ? Edit: 1.6 can be found at www.coyoteflux.nl - just missed it at first sight

08 June 2009, 15:51	#17
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	Just been discussing this on the EAB chat thingy Jope reckons it don't work on my 030, apparently I need an 040 (or better) that supports 'Kickstart Remapping' Is this correct?

08 June 2009, 16:56	#19
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	So why don't it work?

08 June 2009, 18:12	#22
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	I've no idea at all now! I bought the thing from AmigaKit ..... do you reckon their support line will know?

08 June 2009, 18:13	#23
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,116	woody has 1.3 and 2.04. so a flashed 3.1 should get started by the firmware. otherwise the device is really useless :/

08 June 2009, 18:14	#24
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 32 Posts: 4,061	The kickflash's remapping feature only works on A3640, CS1, CS2, CS3, CSPPC.. It uses the special maprom function of these cards, just like Piru's Blizkick. There is no anti piracy, it will remap 3.1 onto a machine that has 3.0 ROMs, but only with one of those CPU cards. If you don't have one of the aforementioned cards, you must get the machine to 3.1 by other means and then just have your modules on the kickflash and make sure that you configure the kickflash to only offer modules if 3.1 is detected. I'm sure it would be possible to code a custom firmware that supported skick/mkick style relocation, but at the moment that doesn't exist.

08 June 2009, 18:23	#25
hit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: planet earth Posts: 1,116	cant find kickflash at amigakit store. did the product description mentioned the above restriction - aka turnkey solution?! i only can recall of a "zorro II" driven amiga is needed and mentioned. nothing about a special accelerator :/

08 June 2009, 22:14	#29
woody.cool Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northampton, England Age: 30 Posts: 113	OK, so if that's the case, if I was to say ..... just upload an updated scsi.device into the Kickflash, is there a way I can tell if it's happened or not? (does the Kickflash display some kind of confirmation message?)

08 June 2009, 23:42	#32
fryguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Karlsborg, Sweden Age: 33 Posts: 464	@Doobrey: i presume the first 16 bytes of the ROM is important and can't be changed to fool it ? (i.e using the first 16 bytes from a 3.0 rom in a 3.1 romimage.)

10 June 2009, 01:05	#35
fryguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Karlsborg, Sweden Age: 33 Posts: 464	@Doobrey: thanks might try it out, but i just ordered real 3.1 roms.

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