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Old 18 May 2009, 11:33   #21
alexh
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Eh?? Am I missing something?

I thought (pretty sure) bitrate refers to the amount of data per second COMPRESSED?

Hence flac = smaller than wav = lower bitrate.

No?

It cannot possibly refer to the amount of data per second uncompressed, cos EVERYTHING has the same value, 16-bit * 44.1KHz (or 48KHz) * 2 channels = 1411.2 (1536) KBit

Last edited by alexh; 19 May 2009 at 09:10. Reason: 44.1KHz, not 44.4KHz
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Old 19 May 2009, 07:58   #22
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A bit i thought was the smallest ammount of binary data.
Code:
    * 1 byte = 8 bits
    * 1 kilobyte (K / Kb) = 2^10 bytes = 1,024 bytes
    * 1 megabyte (M / MB) = 2^20 bytes = 1,048,576 bytes
    * 1 gigabyte (G / GB) = 2^30 bytes = 1,073,741,824 bytes
    * 1 terabyte (T / TB) = 2^40 bytes = 1,099,511,627,776 bytes
    * 1 petabyte (P / PB) = 2^50 bytes = 1,125,899,906,842,624 bytes
    * 1 exabyte (E / EB) = 2^60 bytes = 1,152,921,504,606,846,976 bytes
The compression used in lossless encoding also means it retains every information bit of the original wav in a packed file.

Lossless files are encoded with a developed encoder algorithm, the loseless wave file is the same original wav file packed or unpacked. Unpack a lossless audio file it will uncompress back to the exact same wav file as was used before compressing it, bit for bit identical. Even testing it with any spectral or other file analizer shows it is identical. Lossless audio is accepted as the best (for now, future unknown) compression for lossless audio, for everyone including the music industry.

Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_compression_(data)
Or a search engine to find other places of information on lossless audio.
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Old 19 May 2009, 08:54   #23
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The bitrate depends on several factors:
The information may be digitally compressed by different algorithms or to different degrees

[snip]
  • 500 kbit/s–1 Mbit/s – lossless audio as used in formats such as Free Lossless Audio Codec, WavPack or Monkey's Audio
  • 1411.2 kbit/s – PCM sound format of Compact Disc Digital Audio
Lossless compression does have a bitrate lower than the uncompressed stereo PCM (I mean it has to otherwise why encode right?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by exoticaga
The compression used in lossless encoding also means it retains every information bit of the original wav in a packed file. Unpack a lossless audio file it will uncompress back to the exact same wav file as was used before compressing it
Sure, but bitrate refers to the amount of data per second AFTER compression, not the RAW data. Because FLAC makes the same data smaller it has a lower bitrate.

Flac < WAV = lower bitrate!

Last edited by alexh; 19 May 2009 at 09:13.
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Old 19 May 2009, 09:45   #24
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btw guys, is a 030 able to decode OGG files ?
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Old 19 May 2009, 10:21   #25
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It may have a lower bitrate when compressed. As i understand it on playback of a lossless file it is unpacking of what it needs to play on the fly. So the bitrate on playback is the exact same as the original wave file.

Also the unpacked lossless file is identical to bit, bitrate and frequency for the whole file when analyzed. It would have to be the exact same for the industry to use it, or you would now have rubbish sounding quality cds [freq quality, not the music genre]
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Old 19 May 2009, 10:27   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
btw guys, is a 030 able to decode OGG files ?
I have no idea, you could download some modules from http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Main_Page and try them.

You would need a player or a player plugin, to play the ogg format.

http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Modland#Ogg_Downloads
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Old 19 May 2009, 11:08   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exoticaga View Post
the bitrate [of FLAC] on playback is the exact same as the original wave file.
But so is MP3!! For files compressed at the same sample rate and sample size as the original WAV (which is the norm) the "bitrate on playback" is irrespective of what compression was used. The "bitrate on playback" will be the exact same bitrate as the original wave file. (Which for CD Audio is 16-bit * 44.1KHz * 2 channels = 1411.2 Kbit/s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by exoticaga View Post
Also the unpacked lossless file is identical to bit, bitrate and frequency for the whole file when analyzed.
Ah, but that is where the lossy stuff differs. It still has the same "bitrate on playback" as the original wave file but it is NOT identical.

I am 99% sure FLAC files which are smaller than the original WAV file are said to have a lower bitrate than their corresponding WAV files.

Last edited by alexh; 19 May 2009 at 11:16.
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Old 19 May 2009, 11:12   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
btw guys, is a 030 able to decode OGG files ?
No sorry. 060 can barely play them.
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Old 20 May 2009, 03:02   #29
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ahah ok ^^ ! I must abandon then.
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Old 20 May 2009, 12:10   #30
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I have read this software can compare a cd to lossless and lossy formats.

http://true-audio.com/
Software: AuCDtect
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Old 20 May 2009, 14:39   #31
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I would imagine any MediaPlayer that can write out a WAV file combined with a binary DIFF can do the same thing

Ahh, it does it WITHOUT the original recording... cool stuff.

Thinking about it, I bet that it is useless for highly computer generated music, especially ones with low rate / lossy compressed samples?
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Old 20 May 2009, 14:58   #32
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i don't understand the point.
Basically a lossless format work a bit as an archiver (winrar, 7zip) with special algorythm optimized for samples.
So a FLAC samples must be exactly the same as the original uncompressed audio file.

About playing a MP3/OGG on a 030. I remember i could play an MP3 on 030 but unfortunately as low quality (11khz, 8bit....) so i think it's better to directly download original module and play them natively on your miggy
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Old 20 May 2009, 15:06   #33
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Surprising as it might sound, the motivation for this project wasn't to provide recordings for playback on 030 Amigas. Should I remove the ogg streams and replace them with 11khz aiff samples? ;-)
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Old 20 May 2009, 15:48   #34
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Most certainly, switch to gopher server while you're at it.
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Old 21 May 2009, 13:18   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuZz View Post
Surprising as it might sound, the motivation for this project wasn't to provide recordings for playback on 030 Amigas. Should I remove the ogg streams and replace them with 11khz aiff samples? ;-)
Buzz isn't getting peed off i hope, and with all this healthy chatter on his thread. While also keeping the thread healthy in a good way so more people see it, so try the ogg downloads.

Btw Buzz can you see if they are popular or not, has many different ip addresses downloaded the oggs yet ? Don't forget its still early days for them, you only announced it here on the 14 May 2009 @ 15:15.


Maybe i should stop posting on this thread with chatter that is off topic. Just say the word Buzz and will do so.
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Old 21 May 2009, 13:26   #36
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I'm not peed off no. It was just my attempt at a joke

There have been plenty of downloads but I havn't counted. A few kind people have even used download tools to try and grab everything ;-)
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Old 21 May 2009, 13:49   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frog View Post
i don't understand the point.
Basically a lossless format work a bit as an archiver (winrar, 7zip) with special algorythm optimized for samples.
So a FLAC samples must be exactly the same as the original uncompressed audio file.
I do remembering reading something about winzip having such special compression that was similar or the same as flac. If i remember correctly from flac forum many months ago. They said it was active when winzip used no compression and maybe another setting. I assume they may have been talking of a beta winzip version. Maybe winzip has it, probably it says so on the site, i don't know i prefer winrar mainly. Or maybe it was an inhouse version release that never went public. If would it be the only main stream compressor apart from flac that can compress to flac...

I think i doesn't matter what compression you choose or use, As long as the file size gets a lot smaller, playable on pc and non pc players. Able to play, scan ff-rew, and skip to any track instantly even if packed with the highest compression. Alas the most important is that it remains lossless when packed and unpacking you have the same file as the source file before packing it. Flac for me does all these and is popular. There are other lossless compressors and i've tried a few. But for me flac intergrates into many pc softwares where as other lossless compressions don't or are not updated often enough.

The thing with lossless format is, imagine eif veryone used it became the standard like mp3 is/was. Hard drives and memory is ever increasing so space is not a factor any longer. So why not have cd quality in your walkabout players and phones etc. Mp3 was chosen long ago as a favourite for one reason only space. Mp3 are small files while lossless are not, everyone back then wanted cd quality, but made do with lossy. Not that is a problem any longer, lossless is gaining quickly because of hardware advances bigger memory and drives etc.


Sorry for the long writing, i didn't realise until now
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Old 21 May 2009, 13:53   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuZz View Post
I'm not peed off no. It was just my attempt at a joke

There have been plenty of downloads but I havn't counted. A few kind people have even used download tools to try and grab everything ;-)
Thats great news plenty of downloaders even getting a few leechers, amiga fans or hoarders maybe other terms to use.

But its all good, site active downloads active. Seems you may have made a good decision afterall agreeing to requests to have ogg music format.
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Old 09 June 2009, 21:37   #39
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I love the idea of playing the oggs directly. But I am new to exotica, and I cannot find the ogg download links. All I can see when I go to a game page is the download link for the .lha archive! Am I doing something utterly wrong?
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Old 09 June 2009, 22:04   #40
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I think you might be looking in the wrong place.

try

http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Special:Modland
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