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Old 23 September 2010, 11:47   #81
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Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
Unfortunately we live in a very different world and like it or not but people need control.

There is too much choice and too much freedom OR the human race hasn't matured enough to benefit from this situation.
Err... happily disagree with those statements.
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Old 23 September 2010, 12:50   #82
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I thought you might, but now who is being realistic and who is being idealistic and who is being honest and who is being ignorant...

People just think they are free but the reality is the world is getting less free every day and it isn't the laws that is doing it it's just the average joe down the street who isn't getting any smarter... you get money and looked after the stupider you are... but hey, apparently this is improving the human race...

take it easy
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Old 23 September 2010, 13:26   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klx300r View Post
c'mon now so Windows 7 is not really Windows because it can't run Windows 3.1 programs
Iím talking about hardware, not about operating systems here. Machines such as the SAM arnít Amigas, theyíre not even called Amigas, theyíre called SAMs! This is the same as the Draco: It runs AmigaOs 3.something, I think, but it has none of the Amiga custom hardware and is therefore not an Amiga.

Machines that have to use emulation to run Amiga software arenít Amigas, or youíd be able to call a peecee an Amiga.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klx300r View Post
go on over to os4depot and see that there are all kinds of programs that require a MINIMUM of AmigaOS4.x to run...the fact we can even run Classic stuff on newer AmigaOS machines is pretty cool and makes us alot better off than modern Windows users trying to load up 20 year old software
AmigaOs4.x is an operating system, itís not an Amiga, just like AmigaOs 1.x to 3.x isnít an Amiga, either. The OS doesnít make an Amiga, the hardware does.
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Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
The Amiga had to evolve
I donít think going towards PPC+peecee components is evolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
You in particular always seem to stand by this declaration... but it is seriously flawed... how much do you think the IBM componentry has changed from say the 286, what core components do you think were in that design that should have remained are in the moderm PC now?
But a SAM has nothing that the original Amigas offered, and itís not even called an Amiga in the first place. Amigas stopped being made around 15 years ago, and there has never been anything since.
Quote:
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Would it make you feel better if the Amiga had not come to a stand still and over the years the chips and direction of the Amiga Hardware gradually phased out these items you dearly cling too... see my point?
Canít say I cling to anything, but no, that wouldíve ruined the while Amiga concept completely. If that wouldíve happened, I wouldíve just bought a peecee.
Quote:
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It would have happened theres no doubt about it... to protest against this is idealism based on a stationary belief and no doubt a personal choice...
Iím not protesting against SAMs, Iím just saying theyíre not Amigas, thatís all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
I think alot of you people are simply game players and possibly emulation types who have become interested in the real Amiga hardware, and there is nothing wrong with this but it just explains the mentality, and alot frown upon the modern solution simply because of price and it offers nothing for you!
Iíve used my Amiga as my main and only machine until 2005. Although I donít frown upon modern solutions (which are lightyears behind current technology), they donít offer me anything at all, except the ability to use AOS4. Great.

The whole SAM concept is flawed: very overpriced compared to peecees, and highly underspecced compared to peecees, and for what? So you can run AOS4? What's so fantastic about AOS4 anyway (real question, I've never used AOS4)?
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Old 23 September 2010, 13:42   #84
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Guys can we not just respect the choice of computer/OS each person chooses to use. Life's too short to argue about such stupid things and I find it embarrassing to be quite honest (and why was such an old, dead thread resurrected in the first place?). Surely what counts is that you're happy with what you've got and sod everything else.
This little speech won't help here, Graham. Just from post 1 Slayer tried to provoke in a really ridiculous manner. He knows for sure that EAB is concentrated on the retro hobby Amiga, and not on what he calls a "modern Amiga". It's the wrong forum for missionary work, and he also know this fact.
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Old 23 September 2010, 15:16   #85
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Lets see Thorham cuts up my whole posting instead of actually talking about the exact points (I mean just because he doesn't call PPC evolution it isn't evolution?what sort of arguement is that, opinions don't matter m8 and OS4.x is an obvious continuation of previous AmigaOS releases, like I said you belong in that OTHER group) and Retro-Nerd seems to think I am trying to sell the modern Amiga to people and I should also govern what I write due to my insights on the topic and what Forum Board I am writing on? Hells teeth, do any of you have any respect for anyone on this forum and therefore think about what you type? That wouldn't sit nicely with your over exercised right to freedom of speech now would it (ie, the Amiga is not protected by moderation on this site, but it still proudly uses its name).

And that post 1 you refer to Refro-Nerd was posted quite a long time ago and was simply a harder hitting statement generally fuelled by my distaste of the so called Amiga communities today which are more a band of brothers than a dedicated following to the Amiga Spirit
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Old 23 September 2010, 15:29   #86
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Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
That wouldn't sit nicely with your over exercised right to freedom of speech now would it (ie, the Amiga is not protected by moderation on this site, but it still proudly uses its name).
Something very strange is going on at your end. You mean that anything not praising the Amiga and pointing out the weak points or flaws should be removed? Maybe there are sites that follow that kind of 'Amiga spirit', but I'm really glad EAB isn't one of them.
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Old 23 September 2010, 15:47   #87
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and Retro-Nerd seems to think I am trying to sell the modern Amiga to people and I should also govern what I write due to my insights on the topic and what Forum Board I am writing on?
Of course you can't catch it, right? Especially the 3 words i wrote in bold letters. Amiga.org e.g. is more focused on "Next Gen" Amigas. If you want to live your modern Amiga dream, fine!! But don't tell us that we (EAB) are living in the past. Amiga is a retro hobby for us, nothing more. We use PCs for our daily work and pleasure.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 23 September 2010 at 16:03.
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Old 23 September 2010, 16:19   #88
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To Slayer: Actually, things like the SAM are more like the Atari ST: A bunch of off the shelf parts, and that is not Amiga. Period. You just want to call your SAM an Amiga. I don't know why... Like I said before, a computer doesn't become an Amiga just because it runs AOS.

It's about calling things what they are. It's similar to the whole 'vegetarians who eat fish' thing.
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Old 23 September 2010, 16:22   #89
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Old 23 September 2010, 19:29   #90
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SAM/X1000 etc are not true Amiga's.

Although they may share the logo, OS design/looks.... they have as much in common with the 'original' Amiga as I do with a wet lettuce.

The Amiga since 1994 (apart from Escom's attempt at reselling the A1200/A4000T) has been sold on the basis of profit/greed on the back of the 'Amiga' name utilising ancient parts which is why there is very little demand for it.... if the Amiga were alive today it'd be running at 5GHz, Super Duper Denise would slate any GPU card in existence etc.

I'm not trying to troll or anything, just my view on it. But like Graham, if folk like the SAM etc. then fair enough
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Old 23 September 2010, 21:42   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorham View Post
To Slayer: Actually, things like the SAM are more like the Atari ST: A bunch of off the shelf parts, and that is not Amiga. Period. You just want to call your SAM an Amiga. I don't know why... Like I said before, a computer doesn't become an Amiga just because it runs AOS.

It's about calling things what they are. It's similar to the whole 'vegetarians who eat fish' thing.
Oy! The ST had plenty of custom silicon. Shifter, Glue, DMA controller, Blitter, IKBD interface etc. Atari designed chips on the ST. What custom bits does the SAM have?
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Old 23 September 2010, 21:54   #92
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Oy! The ST had plenty of custom silicon. Shifter, Glue, DMA controller, Blitter, IKBD interface etc. Atari designed chips on the ST. What custom bits does the SAM have?
Oh shit Really? Man, what a screw up
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Old 23 September 2010, 21:56   #93
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my computer is better than yours so there

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

was going say something deep and insightful but I could be bothered
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Old 23 September 2010, 22:46   #94
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cosmicfrog wins this thread
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Old 23 September 2010, 23:08   #95
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cosmicfrog wins this thread
Damn that Cosmicfrog and his supercharged Oric 1 computer
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Old 23 September 2010, 23:55   #96
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After reading this post all the way long i have some things to say about.

First, i don't agree with the idea that "new breed amigas" are not amigas anymore, certainlly they're not 68k, they've not custom amiga-compatible chips, but they share the same evolved OS and the last CPU architecture added to the classic amigas, the PPC.

So as long as they share both things we can still call them "amiga"...

The problem with the SAM boards is a mere budget problem, they're really overpriced, i do figure they're not cheap to produce, yes, but as long as they're so expensive they should provide a faster CPU than a mere 800mhz PPC.

Under my point of view it's better to stick up with MorphOS and buy a license aside a PPC G4 1,5ghz MacMini... Even better knowing that Piru and team will try to extend MorpOS to other PPC macs. That means, fair computing power for a fair price.

I guess SAM boards would need to provide a significant boost over old macs to justify
their price and attract potential users... But with a more expensive and less powerful platform i don't think they're competitive, sadly.

Another thing to mention is the NatAmi project, or the Minimig V2, this AGA Minimig could attract some users that want NEW hardware, or that want some extra capabilities over a regular stock A1200, but it's NatAmi the one that could finally attract all classic amiga users and new amiga users since it could beat any 68k classic amiga model on it's own field... if it ever comes to light.

Cheers.

Time to buy a MorphOS license. ^^
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Old 24 September 2010, 00:03   #97
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First, i don't agree with the idea that "new breed amigas" are not amigas anymore, certainlly they're not 68k, they've not custom amiga-compatible chips, but they share the same evolved OS and the last CPU architecture added to the classic amigas, the PPC.

So as long as they share both things we can still call them "amiga"...
So then PPC based Macs are also Amigas because they can run AOS4? Right

What is it with people that they want to call computers which are clearly not Amigas, Amigas? Makes no sense...
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Old 24 September 2010, 01:03   #98
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That's true, it makes no sense. Just like this whole thread in the News section here on EAB. SAM, PPC, Morph OS bla bla. This has zero to do with an Amiga. There are forums for such kind of machines.
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Old 24 September 2010, 02:12   #99
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While I agree, there's not much point arguing with the ironclad reasoning CosmicFrog presented...

It seems as tho there are 2 parts to the Amiga. Hardware and OS.
And you have to decide (for yourself) how much of "the computer" is which..

Is the Amiga just the hardware? Similar architecture makes it the same computer?
68k Amiga's are Amiga Computers. 68K Macs are Macintosh Computers.

Or is it just the software? AmigaOS running on any platform is an Amiga?
Or does the OS require software compatibility to be the same..

How compatible does it have to be? Kickstart versions broke apps, and I doubt (although I never tried it) that you can install and run AmigaOS 3 on an Amiga 500 with Kickstart 1.2... But I think most people would call those the same OS, just different versions..

For me I think it's a bit of both...

Give me a piece of hardware that can run most (you always lose some old programs with OS updates) AmigaOS (1.3 - 3.x) transparently.
Now, that can be emulated or not.. As long as it's good emulation and it's transparent, as an end user, I don't care..

Also, there are certain features that I consider "core" to the Amiga and Amiga OS.. Almost all seem to be no problem, but one seems to be an issue for the new version on the new hardware.
Draggable screens with different resolutions and/or color depths.

To me, that was always something I went out of my way to show people on my Amiga. It's core to it's multitasking and it's identity, as far as I'm concerned..

You should me a computer that does those things and I'll call it an Amiga (or Amiga clone if you prefer).

I still probably won't buy it as it'll probably be too expensive, but that's another issue.. ;-)

But at the same time, I really don't care if someone else calls their computer an Amiga either...

If it gives us more threads with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfrog
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Then, I'm all for it!!!

desiv
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Old 24 September 2010, 02:16   #100
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Because breaking up is hard to do.
getting back together is nice though
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