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Old 23 March 2009, 01:24   #21
Graham Humphrey
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Originally Posted by prowler View Post
Hi All,

I just hope that what has so far proved to be a valuable resource doesn't get destroyed by discouraging anyone from uploading anything lest it be construed, depending on your point of view, as pirated software.

prowler
The same rules apply to the FTP as they do to the Zone. Anything still sold or supported commercially is not allowed to be uploaded. The only thing being discouraged is breaking the rules and putting the FTP and/or abime.net under threat. It's nothing to do with "points of view", and there is no reason to think it'll be "destroyed".

All I want is not to worry about people uploading stuff which is blatantly breaking these rules despite being reminded several times not to do it, and to stop receiving emails asking for certain files to be removed because they've been uploaded for the 368,661st time.
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Old 23 March 2009, 01:41   #22
exoticaga
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You think you can police an ftp upload area in a day, you must be kidding yourselves.

Its needed for the server operator to put in place a tool that can catalogue ever archive on the ftp. As is now and for nay new archive upload automatically. And leave a log of the contents in a file beside each archive file checked. Now all that is needed is for you to read the contents file list to know what is in each archive.

Next if an archive has some software or file not agreeable to be the ftp. You will have to download that archive remove the files. and reupload the archive back to the server.

Can the ftp have an automated tool to do this, it will make for managing the ftp easier. It'll be the only way to do it easily.

The upload zone is no special place just another folder. So no special upload pass needed to upload their. Uploaders upload to their own folder. This will make for sorting new files to the ftp easy also, into correct folders. Easier for managers because the archive have allready an automated archive catalogue that ftp made for it.

Remember don't delete archives because you cannot be bothered to download, remove files and reupload. If you feel that your likely to this then don't bother to be a ftp manager, we don't need you.
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Old 23 March 2009, 02:02   #23
prowler
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Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey View Post
The same rules apply to the FTP as they do to the Zone. Anything still sold or supported commercially is not allowed to be uploaded. The only thing being discouraged is breaking the rules and putting the FTP and/or abime.net under threat. It's nothing to do with "points of view", and there is no reason to think it'll be "destroyed".
Hi Graham,

I use the term "point of view" very loosely to describe the perception that a would-be uploader might have of the process of scrutiny to which their files would be subjected in order to be seen as acceptable for inclusion in the public area of the server. You only have to look at the widely differing attitudes to the term "abandonware" to see what I mean.

If this consideration discourages even one person from uploading anything to the Zone as well as to Magix's FTP, then these resources will have been devalued as a consequence. And if it discourages *everybody* from uploading anything, then that would be pretty destructive.

prowler

Last edited by prowler; 24 March 2009 at 00:01. Reason: Added detail
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Old 23 March 2009, 02:13   #24
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If my post above is easy to implement then nothing to worry about. Magix has already said the forum need to be sorted its a mess, and i agree. Well its not that messy, unless you take into account the user folders.

I see the point of view could go the either way. UserX has never logged into this forum and never wants to, but still likes to upload to it. No Problem have in upload area a folder name others, though they may also just upload into the upload folder as is. Are we going stop uploadersX ?

Everyone should be welcome whether EAB or not. After all the ftp will automatically generate a catalogue of each archive.

Is anyone going to stepup and say whether ftp server software can do this. I see these files on many other ftps so i assume it can be done.
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Old 23 March 2009, 02:42   #25
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@exoticaga: sorry i may be a little dozy tonite but i don't understand your distintion about people outside and inside EAB.
If i'm mistaken in addressing my answer, i apologize.

Magix himself, in more than one post in the FTP specific thread, has stated that no currently commercially available [edited, thanks Akira] software may be uploaded to his FTP, the reason is that he's the first one to be damaged, in case of forced closure of his server, by the consequences of "cease and desist" mails, from the very same sources that poke at the board, for the very same reasons.

if he has deferred to EAB members, (because they may be more active on the FTP, collectively, than himself) and in particular to mods to check the files uploaded, that's his decision and gracious offer.

even if the 2 statements above wouldn't be true, and they are, any FTP that wants to be tied to this board, for board safety reasons, has to have the same requisites as linked sites, i.e. no currently sold software. otherwise, may it live and prosper, for all i care, outside of here.

the only, i repeat, the only, matter discussed here is how best is arranged such a policy?

either on MagiX side, setting up accounts, or on EAB side, with a unique, preventively policed account.

moreover, both cases need some routinely addressed checking and oredering of the files uploaded, because, as you said, EAB may be not the only uploader party to the FTP (so far, the login account is public and stated in the first post of this thread).

Last edited by Marcuz; 23 March 2009 at 03:29.
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Old 23 March 2009, 03:12   #26
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I think there is a bold claim here that makes no sense.
The policy is against currently commercially available software, if I am correct.
Almost every bit of software is copyrighted, just because it's old doesn't mean it isn't.

So as a first step, you best clarify your guidelines with proper LEGAL wording.

On the matter in question, even if the FTP is linked here and created by members from here, the legal liability of EAB for off-site content is zero or close to that. The Pirate Bay seems to be doing quite OK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay_Trial
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Old 23 March 2009, 03:26   #27
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about the copyright/currently sold difference: yes of course; as i said i'm sleepy,
yet i think everybody understood what i meant (it's not the first time it's talked here).
i'll correct the above posts.

about your second point, for one i don't think it's fair or sensate to compare the board resources, intent, protection etc to Pirate Bay' ones; for second, your are wrong if you think that the whole difference would matter to the hosting service.

[edit: edited above posts by me, as per Akira correction]
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Old 23 March 2009, 04:03   #28
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If EAB members only so be it, it may just mean less uploads are done to the ftp in future. If a person has to ask for special upload password. This is what i eventualy meant by uploaders EAB or not. I think its better to keep it in house as to say. Then users here can be accountable when needed to be warned. Still against the special upload password if decided to go that route.

Can ftp have cookies ? i've not heard of it before, never know unless ask.

EDIT: But all that is irrelavent if the ftp can make automatically upon upload a catalogue of each archive uploaded. Then just check each archive catalogue if something not allowed. Download file remove harmfull content reupload it again with no delay. Still you may want users to upload in their own folders so you know which archive originated from which user.

Last edited by exoticaga; 23 March 2009 at 04:09.
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Old 23 March 2009, 15:15   #29
Peter
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Hi - I have created a user folder for myself on the ftp server - I was going to upload a program called distant suns into my programs folder - I cant see that distant suns is being released these days and I thought that some people on here may find it an interesting program - is this ok to upload?

I have other older programs but would like like to check with someone first before uploading - I don't want to upset any one...
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Old 23 March 2009, 15:29   #30
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see it starts already
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Old 23 March 2009, 15:36   #31
BippyM
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When I had my FTP everyone had their own login details. They also had their own upload folder, which only they had access to, and was the only place they could upload.

Basically files were uploaded and I'd then check them, before moving for public use
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Old 23 March 2009, 15:38   #32
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Yes - I guess I was kind of testing the water there... but it is difficult to know what is right and wrong - upload and if someone complains take it off?
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Old 23 March 2009, 15:51   #33
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Well, first of all, thank you all of you for your suggestions.

As for user rights, it would stay just the same, because of the server software limitations; there is no option about that. I have sent an e-mail to my hosting company and they said me "You can select a specific folder that an FTP user can access, but cannot change permissions for what they can do in the folder as an FTP user." In this case, I am not to be able to do anything about that, sorry.

Here is my suggestion:
Let us say, there is a thread called "FTP Uploads" here and then a user would like to upload any file(s); He or She would post there and moderators says okay or not. Thus, all of us know who uploaded which file. Each user will uploads to their folders and moderators will move to right place later. Whatever.

A second option; we will shut down the FTP and build a new "user login based file management web site".
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Old 23 March 2009, 16:38   #34
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A second option; we will shut down the FTP and build a new "user login based file management web site".
It's a pity that there is no option to make multiple accounts for the FTP server. Can you explain how this 'file management' would work Magix?
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Old 23 March 2009, 17:00   #35
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Like that, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Can you explain how this 'file management' would work Magix?
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Old 23 March 2009, 17:09   #36
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Like that, maybe.
Okay, well maybe the method with the thread here involves less work
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Old 23 March 2009, 17:40   #37
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Check out this, please. It is full functional, be careful.

Code:
Username: amiga
Password: test
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Old 23 March 2009, 17:44   #38
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Actually this looks really useful Will have a closer look later back home, but so far it looks fine for me
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Old 23 March 2009, 18:05   #39
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but does the file thingie site thing actually solve the accountability of uploaders? also is the 8MB limit an actual problem?

that said, both this and the thread approach have pros.
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Old 24 March 2009, 00:35   #40
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I think going to a web based ftp is the 2nd worst that can happen to the ftp, 1st is a closed down ftp.

As your suggestion post here before uploading then user post their files list they like to upload directory on the ftp under their own user name. Those files then get moved into main ftp into correct places, keeping the ftp clean.

No please not some web 'thingy' http. ftp. Magix i know your looking for a good solution. There are some workable ftp. ones posted here, choose one and go with it (ftp.)


Quote:
To catalogue a rar file after its made open in winrar > tools > generate report.

Or to catalogue a directory on windows

DIR SourceDrive:\FilesForArchive\ /B/S >DestDrive:\FilesForArchive.txt


(Replace Source and Dest drive with your own drive letters. Replace FilesForArchive with your the to be uploaded archive name. Rar the .txt generated and post to the correct place on the forum (NOT in the zone).

(Should we use .rtf or .doc, inlplace of .txt for any very big lists that are generated YES/NO ?
Besides beign easy to read and have a cleaner format)
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