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Old 22 March 2009, 21:45   #1
TCD
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Best way to "police" Magix's FTP

I have a better idea Since we have problems with copyrighted files lately, it would be an idea to make a upload document, in which everybody lists the files that were uploaded and to which folder. This would also make it easier to spot wrong folders and stuff like that. If a new file get's moved, I would edit the doc

Okay, you all should now use the file 'Upload Log.txt' in the root folder to keep track of new uploads. If anyone finds a new file that is not mentioned in the 'Upload Log.txt' please PM me (or Graham ), so I (or Graham ) can check if the file is valid and make the appropiate entry in the file. Thank you for your cooperation
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Old 22 March 2009, 21:54   #2
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Not sure if this is possible or not, really need to speak with Magix about it...

I think the best thing to do would be to allow users to only upload to a certain directory. Then once the files uploaded are deemed to be ok they could be moved to the appropriate place by certain FTP moderators (whoever Magix decides this should be).

I guess it would have to work something like this. Let say for example there is a folder called "Uploads" and then "Memberx" would like to upload some files. "Memberx" would send a PM to the FTP moderators and they would create a directory "\Uploads\Memberx" and then he/she uploads the files.

This would definitely help in logging who has uploaded what and stopping mysterious copyright content appearing. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?
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Old 22 March 2009, 22:01   #3
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What do you guys think? Any suggestions?
Sounds like a good idea Since there is only one account right now, it would be okay to have only one Upload folder. This way the 'wild growth' would stop and the files could be moved to the appropiate folders. That would include a fairly large amount of moderation of course and the 'kudos' for personal uploads would mainly vanish Seeming the current user folder, it might be a good idea to move all the files to the appropiate folders anyway.
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Old 22 March 2009, 22:17   #4
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yep I want my kudos such as it is
I sorta like Damien`s idea and I bet its going to be a nightmare to work out whos upin stuff that's not allow`d

But can`t we just upload stuff to are user folders and then let the mods move it as thay see fit

also exoticaga I don`t have a copy of the ftp on my hd for personal use as the ftp is for everyones use not just to suit you back up whims, though if I could be botherd to rape it I spose i would, well when i get that 400gig HD then I might think about it
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Old 22 March 2009, 22:22   #5
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But can`t we just upload stuff to are user folders and then let the mods move it as thay see fit
That would be another idea, Everyone that wants to upload something must have a personal account. That way there would be no 'untraceable' uploads (big brother I hear ya knockin' ). That would be the bulletproof version. I guess we leave it up to Magix to decide which way to go
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Old 22 March 2009, 22:30   #6
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Ok, I've create a new thread to discuss suggestions on how best to "police" Magix's FTP server.

All are welcome to post and Magix can decide on the final solution
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Old 22 March 2009, 22:48   #7
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I would strongly advise that you don't rely on mods to move them as they see fit: this suggests that you'd rely on the mods to move a file from private into being shared.

That puts liability with the mods. You don't really want that.

My recommendation: have a published policy for how to complain if you are a copyright holder and what actions the site will take.

"If you are a copyright holder and you have found material that you wish to have removed, please notify us. We will immediately put the item(s) in question unavailable awaiting proof of copyright status. This can be provided in the form of..."

If you see what I mean. The onus is with the copyright holder to prove infringement in these sorts of things, and they will be the exception rather than the rule...
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Old 22 March 2009, 22:55   #8
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err but could`t they you just delete it there and then

also cyberD I think we might need more than just the 1 readme/upload txt file say 1 for each uploader ?
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Old 22 March 2009, 23:00   #9
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They could do: but that puts the whole decision on mods, which for liability reasons I'd suggest avoiding.

Moderation should be reactive to complaints, not proactive... But that's just my opinion based on being part of a team moderating a site with 50k users where we had great fun with trademarked and copyrighted designs being allegedly infringed: proactive just didn't and couldn't work. This isn't quite the same, but it's somewhat similar
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Old 22 March 2009, 23:00   #10
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There was always the day (ftp thread) that files could be deleted because of the hdd size limitation, we all knew that. So i decided to make a copy so not to miss any that did get deleted. Now thw ftp has a bigger hdd i suppose that threat is now gone. btw it isn't a crime, its each users choice to choose what they want or not, even if it means the whole lot.

btw The idea for uploads folder i have seen elsewhere is a bad one. But what can you do when so called illegal files get upload because uploader doesn't know otherwise. The person who is designated to manage the upload folder will no doubt will keep those so called illegal files, and download them. Do designate a new destination for them. Please them pleasurable, not UG then they'll never be lost.



The end of our ftp as we know it is a coming soon, maybe.
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Old 22 March 2009, 23:01   #11
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@chiark
Still accounts would be an easier way to achieve the same. Users could be given rights to certain folders on the server, depending what they want to upload. I wait for Graham to say something about this

@cosmicforg
Since it is just there until we have a final solution one file should be okay

@exoticaga
We could also ditch the whole idea IMHO Somehow it was you that got the stone rolling mate
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Old 22 March 2009, 23:02   #12
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Police an FTP!!!!? What a ludicrous idea, just delete the stuff that you dont like.

Since when did an FTP server become a democracy!?
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Old 22 March 2009, 23:18   #13
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Hi All,

I just hope that what has so far proved to be a valuable resource doesn't get destroyed by discouraging anyone from uploading anything lest it be construed, depending on your point of view, as pirated software.

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Old 22 March 2009, 23:51   #14
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i would like to remember to everybody who may have forgotten it,

that the policy on the opportunity to linking or not this board to whatever content or means to distribute content (for instance external sites), falls under the care of EAB moderation, in respect of the fact that, as per statute, this board abstains to distribute copyrighted stuff that is still sold in any form (and i cut away all the technicalities, for the sake of comprension).

therefore, some form of control on the FTP in object is made necessary by these 3 facts:

- there's guys who ameniably or not do threat the board in case of alleged or not copyright damages on their licenses. (it's their right)
- some member is oblivious to the fact above and to the repeated reminders to not mistreat the FTP resource
- EAB has, as per usual, the need to protect itself from misdemeanor fallout.

that said, i suggest that MagixFTP to be read only , except for an upload area that should be promptly checked, and named after the uploader could be an acceptable compromise.

that would require though that the FTP would have unique names for the uploaders, and that they would be the same as the EAB names, as they should be made accountable of what they upload.

the above would practically make the FTP half-private, and i believe it would require some effort from the FTP admin and owner and for moderators.

an easier way to do, which i'd prefer as it requires some clearity from members, it would be to post in a thread the details of what you would upload , when greenlighted you send it to a apposite EAB email address where from a mod can orderly upload it to the FTP, while the FTP rests read only-

Last edited by Marcuz; 23 March 2009 at 03:27.
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Old 23 March 2009, 00:01   #15
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an easier way to do, which i'd prefer as it requires some clearity from members, it would be to post in a thread the details of what you would upload , when greenlighted you send it to a apposite EAB email address where from a mod can orderly upload it to the FTP, while the FTP rests read only-
I still vote for the 'one upload user = one upload folder' method. The FTP is read only and everybody who wants to upload gets an account with the rights to his upload folder and maybe to some other folders (like a 'half-op'). The point about the rules of EAB is the main reason todo this and if Magix decides (even if he says that it's out FTP he would have to make the accounts) that this is a good idea we should accept that. The way with the greenlighted mod uploads is far too complicated IMHO and would lead to a massive 'overhead' and delay. Moving the files from the upload folders once a day should be a fair enough deal.
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Old 23 March 2009, 00:18   #16
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and would lead to a massive 'overhead' and delay.
sorry, it makes me smile to read the word "delay" when speaking of software that's decades old.

but anyway your solution is good i just reason that to implement it, it would require one of these two:
- personal accounts (to lead to a personally named directory for upload)
- adamant honesty by the EAB member uploading to a purposedly named folder from the current sole and unisex account.

moreover there's one day delay (at worst) in which copyright crusaders may fill your mail box with linotyped cease and desist missives.

still, your solution is better than no solution, and maybe i'm just unneededly peeky.
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Old 23 March 2009, 00:21   #17
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- personal accounts (to lead to a personally named directory for upload)
Exactly that is what I think marco An account for every uploader and one folder for that he has the right to upload.

Oh and I see your point about the delay
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Old 23 March 2009, 00:38   #18
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oh now the complexitys start I just hope that the ftp dos`t become a victim of its own sucsess

ok TCD what if on that rare occasion that 2 ppl decide to edit the file at the same time ?
ok its unlikely but sods law and all that
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Old 23 March 2009, 00:45   #19
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The end of our ftp as we know it is a coming soon, maybe.
It looks like it, mate, unfortunately.
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Old 23 March 2009, 00:50   #20
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ok TCD what if on that rare occasion that 2 ppl decide to edit the file at the same time ?
ok its unlikely but sods law and all that
One will 'win'. It's also possible now and one change will happen before the other. Maybe the file gets corrupted, but like you say it quite unlikely that it happens.
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