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Old 18 April 2002, 20:33   #1
Dastardly
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Opinions on Cel shading....

The latest 'in fasion' graphics technique seems to be cel shading.
With 90% (maybe more) of you preferring 2D graphics, what are your opinions on this technique?
It seems to give us the best of both worlds, the advantages of depth in the play area, with the beauty of 2D looking graphics.
I actually think its a really good looking effect. JSR and the upcoming Auto Modellista for PS2 both look stunning IMO, but then again, I love both 2D and 3D.

What do you guys think?
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Old 18 April 2002, 21:55   #2
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Erm... I don't even know what that is... any reference screenshot? Is it the technique like in Jet-Set Radio?

Edit: I suppose JSR = Jet-Set Radio
...and I like that style.

Last edited by Kodoichi; 18 April 2002 at 22:02.
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Old 18 April 2002, 21:58   #3
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The word "cel" reminds me classic animation but nothing else
 
Old 18 April 2002, 22:05   #4
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Screenshot of JSR:
http://www.berfield.com/xboxpics/mim...future9-01.jpg
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Old 18 April 2002, 22:14   #5
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Aha, I think that's it. If that's so, I agree with Dastardly.
 
Old 18 April 2002, 23:08   #6
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This is a shot from the cel shaded Auto Modellista..For those not sure of the term 'cel shading'
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Old 18 April 2002, 23:12   #7
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AFAIK That's the method used in video clips of Gorillaz. I've not seen a real time rendered cel shaded game, if it can be done fast enough, it might be cool.
 
Old 18 April 2002, 23:12   #8
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That would make 3D fighters look a lot better. My favourite fighters are still 2D like Marvel vs Capcom

A Dreamcast game used this technique. Can't remember it's name though

EDIT: Apparently there was quite a few like Jet Grind Radio and Wacky Races, noticed JSR has been mentioned above.

I really like this technique - the Gamecube has some special features to directly support this form of renderingl

Games were beginning to strive for realistic 3D images too much for my liking - this cartoon effect gets games back to being presented in the retro way

Last edited by Bloodwych; 18 April 2002 at 23:31.
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Old 19 April 2002, 00:01   #9
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/me waiting for the Zelda GameCube before replying to this thread
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Old 19 April 2002, 00:03   #10
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Is the new Zelda done with this technique? If so, do you have any links to pics?
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Old 19 April 2002, 00:20   #11
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It looks okay, but there's still a lot of room for improvement. For example, Jet Set Radio does a horrible job on character's faces, yet simple things such as background and non-complex object look good.

The problem I have with a lot of 3d titles versus 2d titles is not the graphics, but rather the perspective angles. A lot of game developers think that because they have this 3d technology, they need to take you on a visual roller-coaster ride and show you every viewpoint of your environment before you get motion sickness and lose the game. The best example I can think of for this would be Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast. Now the game looked great when it came out (still does IMO), however, the gameplay was almost nonexistant. The first time I played it I remember oogling over the loop-de-loops and all the fancy effects, but then I realized all I was really doing was moving forward, and I beat the level with minimal effort.

I think the main problem is that game developers get the latest hardware and make a game taking advantage of it, and are so impressed with the graphics they've made, that they somehow think that everyone cares that they are using the latest in 3d technology, and they force feed it to everyone.
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Old 19 April 2002, 00:44   #12
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Yes, the upcoming zelda will be in cel-shading, but the last screenshot / video are old and sucks (8 months old).
So I suggest you to wait a little (one month) for the E3, cause the game will be playable and more finalize there (like Mario Sunshine).
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Old 19 April 2002, 01:34   #13
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i liked Jet Set Radio on the DC, had an original feel to it but i suppose thats the graphics, if all the Cel shaded stuff works in the same, I LIKE IT, but i'll still play the full texture stuff aswell!!! oh yeah and the 2-D stuff, like ermmm, Turrican!!!!!!
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Old 19 April 2002, 01:35   #14
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I remember someone fiddling with Quake source code to rend it with cel-shading. I don't know for sure the page I've seen it, but it was looking good.

I'll see if I can find it again.....
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Old 19 April 2002, 01:48   #15
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I've found it! Or something like what I've remembered seeing.



http://www.cs.wisc.edu/graphics/Gallery/NPRQuake/
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Old 19 April 2002, 01:54   #16
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FPS with cel shading

Trying to remember the name of it now, but there`s a first person shooter coming out for PC with this effect..

ahh yeah XIII is the name of the game.. from Ubi Soft, Using the Unreal II engine..

http://www.pczone.co.uk
and wack in `cel shading` in the search box.
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Old 19 April 2002, 02:01   #17
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According to the screenshots, it doesn't look like they have greatly benefited from cel shading.

Ubi Soft better makes a good game this time. You know, they utterly failed with pool of radiance.
 
Old 19 April 2002, 03:01   #18
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Cel-shading makes a game look like a comic book. It worked OK for JSR (which was ok because it had a comic book storyline anyways), but I don't know how well it will pan out on other games. I'll tell you one thing, though, if the E3 shots of the "new cel-shaded Zelda" look anything like the finished product, it will probably be the first time I've ever skipped playing a game in the Zelda series...

http://cube.ign.com/articles/137/137012p1.html

Sorry to say this, but Link looks like a total dork...
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Old 19 April 2002, 03:06   #19
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It really doesn't look good, never liked Zelda anyway
I'm afraid this technique will be overused like every new thing. However games like Oni and Shogo (both are in anime style) could greatly benefit from it.

And LOL to the text below your name, just noticed it
 
Old 19 April 2002, 03:22   #20
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Re: Opinions on Cel shading....

Quote:
Originally posted by Dastardly
The latest 'in fasion' graphics technique seems to be cel shading.
With 90% (maybe more) of you preferring 2D graphics, what are your opinions on this technique?
It seems to give us the best of both worlds, the advantages of depth in the play area, with the beauty of 2D looking graphics.
I actually think its a really good looking effect. JSR and the upcoming Auto Modellista for PS2 both look stunning IMO, but then again, I love both 2D and 3D.

What do you guys think?
I really like the organic, soft feel. My old Amiga monitor had it thanks to a very high dot pitch. I'm still hopingfor a DirectX feature for WinUAE that will soften the pixels and add more subtle scanlines. MAME has some excellent features for stretching/smoothing the old arcade games to give them that soft feel.
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