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Old 10 February 2009, 13:50   #41
IFW
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"no enourmous waste of CPU checking the memory accesses were allowed"

No CPU known to mankind does that... memory management hardware does and is completely transparent and free.
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Old 10 February 2009, 13:55   #42
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It had multitasking and did not use a lot of RAM, it also had some other good things like Locale (which Windows still is missing AFAIK) and Datatypes.
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Old 10 February 2009, 16:44   #43
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I made no generalizations, what I said was precisely pin-pointed.
something's pointed alright but it wasn't your original post
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Old 10 February 2009, 17:45   #44
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I personally liked the fact that you could easily edit startup sequences... Ever tried to find out what those 150 processes running on startup in Winblows are? they can be hiden in autoexec, config, registry, services or startup folder (as well as numerous other places) and can even attach themselves to any other program - makes it VERY easy for virii and malware to hide

I also hate the Winblows registry - the source of billions of problems - and very hard to find and fix
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Old 10 February 2009, 22:53   #45
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Don't know why you all bother with vm its not needed, (though adobe think it's needed with premier).

Little as 500mb is fine to run without vm on xp, even on p3's, it's how my p3's are run.

Maybe vm was turned on mainly for celeron and duron cpu's. And was never fixed to be off for better intel or amd cpu's.
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Old 10 February 2009, 22:58   #46
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Tell you what one of the things i like about the amiga. AMINET where else is the a repository for any other computer os like aminet. That has every concevable type of apllication to os enhancements and everything else amiga for free. Well ok some are shareware, but they are becoming free in time also.

You want anything windows you have to scour the net, to find someone (if can find) that has wriiten a utility you need. Aminet has it all there under one roof, and may it last.
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Old 10 February 2009, 23:12   #47
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Don't know why you all bother with vm its not needed, (though adobe think it's needed with premier).
With my 16mb fast on my A1200 I've needed it once or twice. But it shouldn't be needed by default, of course.
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Little as 500mb is fine to run without vm on xp, even on p3's, it's how my p3's are run.
Hehe, I've got a P3 with 256mb with WinXP and it works fine. VM is used, but not that much.
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Maybe vm was turned on mainly for celeron and duron cpu's. And was never fixed to be off for better intel or amd cpu's.
In WinXp you can just turn it off if you have enough memory. Because 256mb is already useful, with todays computers this should not be a problem.
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Old 10 February 2009, 23:51   #48
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Exactly with it turned of a computer runs better. Also better to turn of indexing because thats a hd thrasher, or just have it on c: os i really need it. While at it turn of restore on all drives except c: os, more so if you have big files on other drives. Defragmenting don't bother also on drives with many big files, (big file say 1gb or more).

I agree snoopdos is an excellent amiga uitility. Was anything similar and as good ever made for xp ?
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Old 11 February 2009, 00:11   #49
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It boots fast enough, 15 seconds or so.
It has a command line. One that doesn't look like shit.
It can run Dpaint properly.
Everything I want to do is started when I click a mousebutton. Every program starts in 1 second.

What more could you want?

Play videos and mp3s? I already have a dvd player in my living room and an mp3 player in my pocket.
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Old 11 February 2009, 00:44   #50
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There is no such thing as two disk RAID5
hey you're right, I'm a fool, it's just a stripe should be fecking fast though, no?

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I just remember it being crap as almost everything in the GUI was a blocking operation. Not being able to do anything until the GUI had finished reading a directory and drawing the current folder.
Not sure we're entirely talking about the same thing but I am at a bit of a loss to describe it atm. It certainly did not block all your other apps and was completely incapable of updating the screen just cos it was a bit busy looking at the network drives that weren't there (Win: I stare at YOU)

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Probably cos it had 50Hz video output. Setting a 50Hz video output on your PC does wonders also. WinUAE at 50Hz = Smooth scrolling

I do think that games do suck on the PC without VSync enabled. I hate screen tearing. I'd much rather use a lower resolution with VSync on and AA enabled running at 50fps than 1600x1200 at 33.3

Talking about video apps (i.e. watching movies) any stuttering is more likely to be the software trying to keep the video and audio in sync, compensating for a 75Hz screen refresh and a 23.9Hz video source. Windows does "scratch" itself now and again but I would say it is more likely to be crappy video replay software coupled with unfriendly screen refresh rate.
I'm not really referring to games, or video playback, of course they've got their problems - more like where PC is used where the Amiga used to be - signage, oncreen graphics for TV, video production etc. I'm not really talking about where there are mismatches in teh frame rate of the material and output device. PC obviously usually ends up with the screen displaying at the rate the card actually outputs. However from the humble scrolly text screensaver, to the check in desk billboards at Manchester airport, from the graphics around the screen on the late night text in channels to the information screens in the local shopping centre - the machine running the show, hundreds of times faster with much more capable hardware can't help looking a bit like it's struggling to display simple text at times - or perhaps even taking a break for a little while - universally. Then of course sometimes it'll pop up a bloody great requester in the middle of the screen bleating about something inane.

BTW - I'm not really coming from an "OMG the meega rulleez put it back in everywhere!!!!11" angle, just flabbergasted that STILL nobody else has been able to replicate some of the things it could do well.
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Old 11 February 2009, 00:53   #51
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It's the most beautifully conceived desktop OS ever written!

That's not to say it doesn't have it's (major) limitations for the present day but as a well put together example of how a (semi)real-time, functional, expandable, low-overhead, OS should be done you could do far, far worse...

...I'd go as far as saying that the only OS that betters it is by QNX but sadly that's never really been targeted at desktop users.

BeOS - similar 'ethos'
RiscOS - An alternate example for how an OS should be done, but then I would say that.
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Old 11 February 2009, 02:06   #52
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However from the humble scrolly text screensaver, to the check in desk billboards at Manchester airport, from the graphics around the screen on the late night text in channels to the information screens in the local shopping centre - the machine running the show, hundreds of times faster with much more capable hardware can't help looking a bit like it's struggling to display simple text at times - or perhaps even taking a break for a little while - universally. Then of course sometimes it'll pop up a bloody great requester in the middle of the screen bleating about something inane.
Hardly the fault of the OS.

A mixture of bad applications / bad programming combined with Sys-ops who do not know how to do anything not written in their A4 folder let alone configure a PC!

The system we had in our local pub was the same, crappy scroller running along the bottom of the screen jerking around, blurrier than an N64 with RF output.

2-minutes work with PowerStrip and perfect smooth scrolling, tweak the gfx card driver to lower the flicker filter setting and finally replace the composite cable with an S-Video one and voilą!
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Old 11 February 2009, 03:23   #53
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I agree snoopdos is an excellent amiga uitility. Was anything similar and as good ever made for xp ?
Process Explorer
Dependency Walker
FileMon

to name but a few...
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Old 11 February 2009, 09:21   #54
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LOL have you tried them though? Do ONE thing and there's 10,000 entries to wade through trying to figure out what just went on, and which one is actually the fail you're looking for.

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Hardly the fault of the OS.

A mixture of bad applications / bad programming combined with Sys-ops who do not know how to do anything not written in their A4 folder let alone configure a PC!

The system we had in our local pub was the same, crappy scroller running along the bottom of the screen jerking around, blurrier than an N64 with RF output.

2-minutes work with PowerStrip and perfect smooth scrolling, tweak the gfx card driver to lower the flicker filter setting and finally replace the composite cable with an S-Video one and voilą!
You may have a point, as I point out I cannot understand it, but explain me how it's not done well ANYWHERE? TBH I think is IS the fault of the OS - bogging down said very capable hardware. IMHO.

Last edited by Graham Humphrey; 11 February 2009 at 09:26. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged
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Old 11 February 2009, 09:29   #55
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Well this starts to drift to the common OS debate now... Maybe we could really try to list the things that were special about AmigaOS or just cleverly done Still eager to know what people liked about it (or maybe it really just were the games )
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Old 11 February 2009, 09:46   #56
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One thing I love about AmigaOS, is that it is so easy to use. For example, if a program doesn't work, it will tell you what file is missing and where the file should be located.

If AmigaOS fails to load for whatever reason, all you have to do is copy some files and AmigaOS is brought back to life. When Windows fails to load, you'd be better off reformatting and reinstalling Windows than wasting hours problem solving...
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Old 11 February 2009, 11:13   #57
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LOL have you tried them though? Do ONE thing and there's 10,000 entries to wade through trying to figure out what just went on, and which one is actually the fail you're looking for.
Which shows how inefficient and crap Winblows is

I actually quite like dependency walker since it attaches itself to the exe that you are looking at
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Old 11 February 2009, 11:18   #58
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Other than Nostalgia.... not a lot. I do love 1.3 though - my favourite OS of all time

Workbench goodness factors;

Easy to use
Small in size
What it can do with so little in terms of CPU/Memory
Bullet Proof reliability(except the guru's )
Clunky clunk disc drive access
Say program
Boingy boing demo
The fact it still lists COOL printers such as Daisy Wheels and ancient laser printers that cost 5 million pounds
Easter Eggs
Everything else I forgot to mention


To be honest I wish MS would take the concepts of the likes of Workbench and slim down the unnecessary bloatware... people can then add things on as they like... XP is pretty nice but the likes of Vista turn me off Windows altogether.... hopefully W7 should resolve Vista's downfalls.

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Old 11 February 2009, 11:36   #59
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LOL have you tried them though? Do ONE thing and there's 10,000 entries to wade through trying to figure out what just went on, and which one is actually the fail you're looking for.

You may have a point, as I point out I cannot understand it, but explain me how it's not done well ANYWHERE? TBH I think is IS the fault of the OS - bogging down said very capable hardware. IMHO.
But the OS is doing way, way, WAY more than AmigaDOS could ever do. Sure AmigaDOS is simple to understand, but it is limited.

SnoopDOS would be incomprehensible to someone who didn't know what they were doing...

What does give me hope with regards to OS is the direction major OSs are taking: Ubuntu removing CUPS from the standard install, OS X Snow Leopard being tuned for performance and size, Windows 7 apparently being thinner, too...
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Old 13 February 2009, 06:55   #60
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I appreciate the AmigaOS because it has an overall feeling of high technical quality. It's lean and zippy, and it makes you feel in control of the computer rather than under control of the OS. When comparing the AmigaOS to Windows on a modern computer this becomes more transparent - but I still appreciate it being there, knowing that it's all done with a fraction of the resources compared to the Windows equivalent.

From a programmer's point of view I feel that the Kickstart APIs are horrible. The documentation leaves much to desire and there's just no comparing it to the MSDN. I believe there were too many cooks involved, each and one following their own recipe.

There has always been a gray and sterile feeling looming over the PC and Windows, and there's little fun in using and programming it. The Amiga and its OS on other hand feels very genuine, and I will always appreciate that. However, I will never switch from Windows to AmigaOS for everyday use because in the end the Windows alternative is just more comfortable and easy to use.
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