PCMCIA/CF insertion & extraction

Supamax · 02 February 2009, 20:39

Hi,

I generally prefer to insert my PCMCIA/CF adapter (with the CF fitted) when my Amiga is off.
But sometimes it's useful or needed to hot-insert/extract it.

Ok, I tested that I can hot-insert/extract the PCMCIA card, no problems (the Amiga recognizes the change).

But my question/doubt is this one:
can I hot-insert/extract the CF into/from the PCMCIA adapter (leaving the adapter connected) ?

Or could this create hardware problems, immediately (burned IC's etc.) or later?

davideo · 02 February 2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Hi,

I generally prefer to insert my PCMCIA/CF adapter (with the CF fitted) when my Amiga is off.
But sometimes it's useful or needed to hot-insert/extract it.

Ok, I tested that I can hot-insert/extract the PCMCIA card, no problems (the Amiga recognizes the change).

But my question/doubt is this one:
can I hot-insert/extract the CF into/from the PCMCIA adapter (leaving the adapter connected) ?

Or could this create hardware problems, immediately (burned IC's etc.) or later?

I've inserted it both ways - with and without the card without any problems.

Dave G

r0jaws · 02 February 2009, 20:44

I'm trying to think why you would hot swap the cards out of the adapter, surely its just as easy to pull out the adapter, change the card and replace it or am I missing the point?

Supamax · 02 February 2009, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0jaws

I'm trying to think why you would hot swap the cards out of the adapter, surely its just as easy to pull out the adapter, change the card and replace it or am I missing the point?

Yes, it would seem easier to pull out the whole PCMCIA adapter

...
But I find it would be more confortable (less "hard" to extract/insert) to take out the CF only.
Is it safe to swap them directly in the connected PCMCIA adapter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by davideo

I've inserted it both ways - with and without the card without any problems.

Dave G

Did you do it often?
Does the Amiga recognize with no problems the inserted/extracted CF?

Akira · 02 February 2009, 22:47

I hotswap my SD cards all time. It works like a diskdrive. Amiga recognizes the insertion and extraction.

I wouldn't like to extract and reinsert the PCMCIA adapter all the time. it will actually cause a lot of wear and maybe damage to the PCMCIA port.

davideo · 02 February 2009, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Did you do it often?
Does the Amiga recognize with no problems the inserted/extracted CF?

Yes on a fairly regular basis. I find it easier to actually remove/refit the card rather than the whole converter. If you bend a pin in the converter - it's a lot easier to get a new converter than repair the 1200 port

Dave G

prowler · 03 February 2009, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

I wouldn't like to extract and reinsert the PCMCIA adapter all the time. it will actually cause a lot of wear and maybe damage to the PCMCIA port.

This would be my concern too.

The PCMCIA port looks to have a very delicate pin array.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 00:50

@ Akira, davideo and prowler

YES, EXACTLY!!!

That was my concern, too. That's why I opened the thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

I hotswap my SD cards all time. It works like a diskdrive. Amiga recognizes the insertion and extraction.

You wrote SD... but did you mean CF ?
Or do you really have a PCMCIA/SD adapter ?
Do you know a working model (eBay link, perhaps) ? I know there are IDE/SD adapters, but I didn't know of PCMCIA/SD, *well working* on the miggy

prowler · 03 February 2009, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

@ Akira, davideo and prowler

YES, EXACTLY!!!

That was my concern, too. That's why I opened the thread

Toni Wilen has reported elsewhere that he has a couple of pins broken on the PCMCIA port of his only A1200. This is what alerted me to this problem.

r0jaws · 03 February 2009, 00:51

I see, then in that case, I tried it earlier and it didn't appear to have any ill effects.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0jaws

I see, then in that case, I tried it earlier and it didn't appear to have any ill effects.

Ok then, if it's safe I'll leave the adapter inserted and swap the CF only

.

I'm very interested in a PCMCIA/SD adapter, though!

Will the A600/A1200 accept a maximum of 4GB SD?
(just asking, 4GB is a huuuge space for my miggy)

prowler · 03 February 2009, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

I'm very interested in a PCMCIA/SD adapter, though!

Will the A600/A1200 accept a maximum of 4GB SD?
(just asking, 4GB is a huuuge space for my miggy)

Hi Supamax,

The maximum you should use is 2GB. This is because 4GB and higher capacity cards are SDHC, which is not compatible. This is the advice I got from BlueAchenar in this post:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=215
when I asked the same question.

prowler

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

The maximum you should use is 2GB. This is because 4GB and higher capacity cards are SDHC, which is not compatible.

Mmmm... 4GB SD (not SDHC) existed, and they can be bought even now (on eBay, for example).
If I could get an 8GB SD, would it be supported by the Amiga? I don't need all that space, obviously, but I would probably find 8Gb ones in stores (more common than 4GB), now... for a cheap price.

EDIT: perhaps not, I would stay on 4Gb ones.

Calgor · 03 February 2009, 01:39

I would think it should work with SDHC as long as you have a PCMCIA-SD adapter compatible with SDHC (good luck finding one?).

8GB SDs are generally not recommended as it is non-standard and many other adapters/card readers which support SDHC mostly are said not to support >4GB standard SD.

prowler · 03 February 2009, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Mmmm... 4GB SD (not SDHC) existed, and they can be bought even now (on eBay, for example).
If I could get an 8GB SD, would it be supported by the Amiga? I don't need all that space, obviously, but I would probably find 8Gb ones in stores (more common than 4GB), now... for a cheap price.

EDIT: perhaps not, I would stay on 4Gb ones.

Have another look above, mate. I've added a link to BlueAchenar's original post.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 01:43

No no, SDHC would be wasted for the Amiga (sorry

).

Look here, 4GB SD-only can be easily found:
http://cgi.ebay.it/MEMORY-CARD-SECUR...1%7C240%3A1309

Another one:

http://cgi.ebay.it/SD-4GB-TAKEMS-4-G...3A1|240%3A1318

prowler · 03 February 2009, 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

No no, SDHC would be wasted for the Amiga (sorry

).

Look here, 4GB SD-only can be easily found:
http://cgi.ebay.it/MEMORY-CARD-SECUR...1%7C240%3A1309

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Another one:

http://cgi.ebay.it/SD-4GB-TAKEMS-4-G...3A1|240%3A1318

I am suspicious of cards of this type being wrongly labelled.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

I am suspicious of cards of this type being wrongly labelled.

The SD standard reached 4GB capacity way before the new SDHC was introduced

prowler · 03 February 2009, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

The SD standard reached 4GB capacity way before the new SDHC was introduced

Well, good luck with that, and let me know whether they work (4GB SD cards can be bought here in the UK too).

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Well, good luck with that, and let me know whether they work (4GB SD cards can be bought here in the UK too).

Are you saying that all 4GB SD cards are fakes/SDHC/non standard?
But I perfectly remember 4GB SD cards *before* SDHC appeared.
Furthermore, my father has a 4GB SD card for his Nikon camera

. So I could try his one before buying another, he he!

Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card

However, before thinking about buying one, were could I buy a good PCMCIA/SD adapter, preferably from those Hong Kongish eBay sellers

?

prowler · 03 February 2009, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Are you saying that all 4GB SD cards are fakes/SDHC/non standard?
But I perfectly remember 4GB SD cards *before* SDHC appeared.
Furthermore, my father has a 4GB SD card for his Nikon camera

No, of course I'm not saying they're all fakes. It's just that I hadn't previously heard that the SD specification had reached 4GB, so I just assumed that the cards which were described at 4GB SD were actually 4GB SDHC and wrongly labelled.

But now I know better.

It's just a shame that I have already bought a 2GB card following BlueAchenar's recommendation. Oh well, It was really only to test his creditcard.device driver.

Please let me know if you find that the 4GB SD cards are okay with the Amiga.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

It's just a shame that I have already bought a 2GB card following BlueAchenar's recommendation. Oh well, It was really only to test his creditcard.device driver.

But hey, 2GB is a lot of space!
I'm only thinking about 4GB ones because I think I'll find them more easily in the shops. And the difference in price between 2GB and 4GB will be ridiculous

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Please let me know if you find that the 4GB SD cards are okay with the Amiga.

Of course, m8!

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 02:15

A model like this one should be compatible with the A600?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-in-1-PCMCIA-...3A1|240%3A1318

prowler · 03 February 2009, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

A model like this one should be compatible with the A600?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-in-1-PCMCIA-...3A1|240%3A1318

Yep, looks much the same as mine, but mine's unbranded. Buffalo is a reliable make, AFAIK.

Calgor · 03 February 2009, 02:38

Watch out for the maximum size cards they can handle. My 5-in-1 (Sandisk?) PCMCIA adapter (only tried in PC) maxes out at 1GB SD. Later revisions should be ok I think.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

Watch out for the maximum size cards they can handle. My 5-in-1 (Sandisk?) PCMCIA adapter (only tried in PC) maxes out at 1GB SD. Later revisions should be ok I think.

It says "Supports up to 4GB card". I hope it's so...
The price is prohibitive, isn't it?

prowler · 03 February 2009, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

Watch out for the maximum size cards they can handle. My 5-in-1 (Sandisk?) PCMCIA adapter (only tried in PC) maxes out at 1GB SD. Later revisions should be ok I think.

Hmm... So a 2GB SD card might not work with my PCMCIA adapter?

(Unfortunately, I've got no info on it.)
Oh well, at least it'll be a good spare for my digital camera.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 02:46

I found (on this site: http://www.analog.com/library/analog...act_flash.html) the following:

CompactFlash Overview
In 1995 the CompactFlash Association (CFA) was organized to develop a common standard interface format that would enable the capture, retention, and transportation of data—such as images or audio files—among a wide variety of digital systems. This collaboration resulted in the publishing of the CompactFlash specification. It defined a compact, high-density, removable storage interface that was basically a reduced 50-pin version of the PCMCIA or PC card specification, which was also electrically compatible with an IDE-hard drive. Because it is designed to be removable, the CF card can be “hot-swapped” in an active microprocessor-based system without requiring a system power-down or hard reset. The CompactFlash standard also supports three different industry-standard interfaces: PC-Memory mode, PC-card I/O mode, and True-IDE mode. When using True-IDE mode, the device can be connected to an IDE connector without requiring any extra supporting circuitry.

I didn't know that the CF were designed to be hot-swappable... good!

prowler · 03 February 2009, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Did you mean 4GB?

No, I meant the 2GB I've already bought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

I found (on this site: http://www.analog.com/library/analog...act_flash.html) the following:

CompactFlash Overview

In 1995 the CompactFlash Association (CFA) was organized to develop a common standard interface format that would enable the capture, retention, and transportation of data—such as images or audio files—among a wide variety of digital systems. This collaboration resulted in the publishing of the CompactFlash specification. It defined a compact, high-density, removable storage interface that was basically a reduced 50-pin version of the PCMCIA or PC card specification, which was also electrically compatible with an IDE-hard drive. Because it is designed to be removable, the CF card can be “hot-swapped” in an active microprocessor-based system without requiring a system power-down or hard reset. The CompactFlash standard also supports three different industry-standard interfaces: PC-Memory mode, PC-card I/O mode, and True-IDE mode. When using True-IDE mode, the device can be connected to an IDE connector without requiring any extra supporting circuitry.

I didn't know that the CF were designed to be hot-swappable... good!

Well, if you'd found that earlier, mate, you wouldn't have had to start this thread.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

No, I meant the 2GB I've already bought.

But I thought you had the card and the adapter! Didn't you try them both on your Amiga?
Well, you could buy one of those Buffalo-like. They are brand new, and they seem to support up to 4GB cards

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Well, if you'd found that earlier, mate, you wouldn't have had to start this thread.

Ok, but perhaps this thread will be useful for those to come

prowler · 03 February 2009, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Ok, but perhaps this thread will be useful for those to come

Yes, of course it will (I was only joking).

The PCMCIA adapter came with my second A1200, which I bought recently. There were no media for it in the bundle I bought - that's one of the reasons I asked BlueAchenar for his advice. The other reason was I thought it would be handy to test his creditcard.device driver.

I'm not really bothered about the maximum size card the adapter can use. Anything will be better than either floppy disks or Amiga Explorer for copying large files back and forth between my Amigas and PCs.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

The other reason was I thought it would be handy to test his creditcard.device driver.

Wait a moment: do you mean that I need a different driver if I use SD cards (different from the one used for the CF, I mean) ?

prowler · 03 February 2009, 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Wait a moment: do you mean that I need a different driver if I use SD cards (different from the one used for the CF, I mean) ?

No, it's the same compactflash.device driver (cfd). The creditcard.device driver is BlueAchenar's attempt to improve it.

See this thread:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=41220

Akira · 03 February 2009, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

You wrote SD... but did you mean CF ?
Or do you really have a PCMCIA/SD adapter ?

\
Yes there are, and that's what I have.
Look at my original thread (maybe it should be stickeid?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy6-2naWDao

I never used it with anything bigger than 1GB though, but I put SD and Memory Stick up that thing and it worked great with the compactflash device.

Most recommended

CF cards are more expensive.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

Most recommended

CF cards are more expensive.

And CF cards have too much pins

. SD cards are easier to swap

rkauer · 03 February 2009, 04:51

Yeah, but SD sockets develops bad contact very fast.

prowler · 03 February 2009, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

Yeah, but SD sockets develops bad contact very fast.

@rkauer:
I'm surprised to hear that. I've had no problems with these cards in my digital camera and USB card readers for the PC. Is this something you have experience of? I don't see how these contacts can be less reliable than, say, a USB socket.

Supamax · 03 February 2009, 22:24

By the way, I'm not sure if SD cards are hot-swappable... are they?

cane · 03 February 2009, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Hmm... So a 2GB SD card might not work with my PCMCIA adapter?

(Unfortunately, I've got no info on it.)
Oh well, at least it'll be a good spare for my digital camera.

2Gb SD card works on my multicard reader - http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=420705&postcount=26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

\
Yes there are, and that's what I have.
Look at my original thread (maybe it should be stickeid?)

Link to the whole thread - http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=36654

First time I use multiquote, nice feature.

Akira · 03 February 2009, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

By the way, I'm not sure if SD cards are hot-swappable... are they?

As I said, I do it. Also with the memorystick.
I don't see how SD card contacts can be more unreliable than the little pins of CF, really.

02 February 2009, 20:39	#1
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Italy Posts: 1,989	PCMCIA/CF insertion & extraction Hi, I generally prefer to insert my PCMCIA/CF adapter (with the CF fitted) when my Amiga is off. But sometimes it's useful or needed to hot-insert/extract it. Ok, I tested that I can hot-insert/extract the PCMCIA card, no problems (the Amiga recognizes the change). But my question/doubt is this one: can I hot-insert/extract the CF into/from the PCMCIA adapter (leaving the adapter connected) ? Or could this create hardware problems, immediately (burned IC's etc.) or later?

02 February 2009, 20:44	#3
r0jaws Amibay fanboi Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire Age: 38 Posts: 153	I'm trying to think why you would hot swap the cards out of the adapter, surely its just as easy to pull out the adapter, change the card and replace it or am I missing the point? __________________ 1x 1200 (Console) OS 3.9, 8Gb CF Card, Blizzard 1260 PPC 160Mhz, 128Mb RAM, Bvision, Indivision AGA SDFF, Ma401 Wireless

03 February 2009, 00:51	#10
r0jaws Amibay fanboi Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire Age: 38 Posts: 153	I see, then in that case, I tried it earlier and it didn't appear to have any ill effects. __________________ 1x 1200 (Console) OS 3.9, 8Gb CF Card, Blizzard 1260 PPC 160Mhz, 128Mb RAM, Bvision, Indivision AGA SDFF, Ma401 Wireless

03 February 2009, 01:43	#16
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Italy Posts: 1,989	No no, SDHC would be wasted for the Amiga (sorry ). Look here, 4GB SD-only can be easily found: http://cgi.ebay.it/MEMORY-CARD-SECUR...1%7C240%3A1309 Another one: http://cgi.ebay.it/SD-4GB-TAKEMS-4-G...3A1\|240%3A1318 Last edited by Supamax; 03 February 2009 at 03:22. Reason: merged two posts into one

03 February 2009, 04:51	#36
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 47 Posts: 3,477	Yeah, but SD sockets develops bad contact very fast. __________________ Amigan since 1989 Known drunk since 1982 (don't know quite well, I was drunk) 13 Amigas at home Finally a Z3 one! I'll stick with 'Cachaça do Inter' for this week: Chivas gives headaches! :D

02 February 2009, 22:47	#5
Akira Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: # Posts: 12,584	I hotswap my SD cards all time. It works like a diskdrive. Amiga recognizes the insertion and extraction. I wouldn't like to extract and reinsert the PCMCIA adapter all the time. it will actually cause a lot of wear and maybe damage to the PCMCIA port.

03 February 2009, 01:39	#14
Calgor Amigas > Amigos Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 991	I would think it should work with SDHC as long as you have a PCMCIA-SD adapter compatible with SDHC (good luck finding one?). 8GB SDs are generally not recommended as it is non-standard and many other adapters/card readers which support SDHC mostly are said not to support >4GB standard SD.

03 February 2009, 02:15	#23
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Italy Posts: 1,989	A model like this one should be compatible with the A600? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-in-1-PCMCIA-...3A1\|240%3A1318

03 February 2009, 02:38	#25
Calgor Amigas > Amigos Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 991	Watch out for the maximum size cards they can handle. My 5-in-1 (Sandisk?) PCMCIA adapter (only tried in PC) maxes out at 1GB SD. Later revisions should be ok I think.

03 February 2009, 02:46	#28
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Italy Posts: 1,989	I found (on this site: http://www.analog.com/library/analog...act_flash.html) the following: CompactFlash Overview In 1995 the CompactFlash Association (CFA) was organized to develop a common standard interface format that would enable the capture, retention, and transportation of data—such as images or audio files—among a wide variety of digital systems. This collaboration resulted in the publishing of the CompactFlash specification. It defined a compact, high-density, removable storage interface that was basically a reduced 50-pin version of the PCMCIA or PC card specification, which was also electrically compatible with an IDE-hard drive. Because it is designed to be removable, the CF card can be “hot-swapped” in an active microprocessor-based system without requiring a system power-down or hard reset. The CompactFlash standard also supports three different industry-standard interfaces: PC-Memory mode, PC-card I/O mode, and True-IDE mode. When using True-IDE mode, the device can be connected to an IDE connector without requiring any extra supporting circuitry. I didn't know that the CF were designed to be hot-swappable... good!

03 February 2009, 22:24	#38
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Italy Posts: 1,989	By the way, I'm not sure if SD cards are hot-swappable... are they?

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