Cracked games with ERROR protections

[Supamax]

Thanks.
Let's not talk any more about Barbarian. There are many other examples

[IFW]

I am a fairly authentic source of information on protections and the like. Feel free to ask. (See my avatar... you know where the ipfs are coming from)

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by IFW

I am a fairly authentic source of information on protections and the like. Feel free to ask. (See my avatar... you know where the ipfs are coming from)

Yes, I know! Who doesn't know you?
What I'm saying is that I didn't open the thread for Barbarian (only).
I uploaded Terrorpods and Fright Night and Silkworm, too, and I have more.
I copied *all* of them for me when I had the A500 (around 1988, I think).
They can't be all copies of the originals, since the originals had some "decent" protection, not to be easily copied with X-Copy '87 edition. Am I right?

[IFW]

Let me check...
Hold on

[IFW]

Terrorpods: same with Barbarian, slightly protected.
Silkworm: requires hw to copy properly.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by IFW

Terrorpods: same with Barbarian, slightly protected.
Silkworm: requires hw to copy properly.

I copied all my floppies with a nibbler copier... including Silkworm! How is it possible that you say it requires hw to be copied?
Note that I'm referring to my floppies (of which I uploaded the dumps), not to the originals.
Did you check your .ipf or my eADF ?
I suppose you checked your .ipf files...

I can't remember now which nibbler I used for Silkworm (perhaps Burstnibbler?), but I hadn't any hw dongle at that time, and Cyclone appeared a lot later...

Originally Posted by IFW

Terrorpods: same with Barbarian, slightly protected.
Silkworm: requires hw to copy properly.

What do you say about Fright Night (.ipf and my .adf) ?

[dlfrsilver]

Fright night is a Steve bak game.

Steve Bak is a famous atari st coder. He has used atari st MFM track format on all his game :

Jupiter's probe
Goldrunner
Fire and brimstone
Fright night
Spitting Image

All this game will be confirmed by IFW as i said.

And none of those are actually released in IPF.

atari ST tracks are most of the time shorter MFM tracks.

[Supamax]

Hi IFW,

what can you say about my .adf dumps?
They weren't dumped from originals (please note that Fright Night is cracked but still has protection/ST tracks), am I right? If it would be so, I couldn't have made a copy of Silkworm.

EDIT: if you examine the dump (with an editor) of Silkworm I uploaded, you can see it's cracked by QUARTEX and has non-DOS tracks.
So I am right, by all means.

EDIT #2: if you do the same with Fright Night and search for the key "QUARTEX", you'll find that it was cracked by QUARTEX. Second score for me

[dlfrsilver]

i don't know what Quartex has cracked, because there is no special track in fright night.

For silkworm, i'll check what it has

EDIT : Silkworm has INDEED a longtrack with no sync, length = $1A2C => impossible to copy with a standard drive.

there is 1 track with length $1762 and all the remaining tracks are using a length of $1614.

remember ? a dos track is $1600

[Supamax]

Ok, for those of you who keep TOSEC updated, you can add my dumps of Fright Night and Silkworm, both cr QUARTEX.


I'm sure you could add Barbarian and Terrorpods, too, but I've no proof (other than repeat that I got them 20 years ago and NOT from the originals).

Good Bye!

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

EDIT : Silkworm has INDEED a longtrack with no sync, length = $1A2C => impossible to copy with a standard drive.

there is 1 track with length $1762 and all the remaining tracks are using a length of $1614.

remember ? a dos track is $1600

I said I got it 20 years ago and I copied it with a standard nibbler.
I thought it was X-Copy but perhaps I don't remember well. In those years I was using Burstnibbler and another one.

So it's definitely copyable with standard drive and standard software. I did it 20 years ago, and I'm no magician!

[jotd]

Some longtracks used gap and were artifically long so nibble copy was not possible ("7" appeared when copying).
However, RNWarp (and WWarp I think) can reduce the gap and copy original RN track disks (most Team 17 games). the copies are then warpable and copyable with XCopy (still no standard track but copies work).
Of course those are not 1:1 copies, but it fools the original loader so it's hard to tell the difference.
I'm talking of RN longtracks, not RN copylock tracks which cannot be copied (although I heard that it was possible with some special MFMWarp driver. Never saw it).

Another example: Leander cannot be nibbled but other Psygnosis games can (apart from RN copylock), and the format is the same (same decoder). Conclusion: Leander has a bigger gap.

Another example: Unreal cannot be copied, but back in the days I was given a nibbleable copy. Another case where they reduced the gap and it worked. The Unreal protection was horrible, so I guess it was easier that way

So it's true that some crackgroups created nibbleable non dos track "cracks" so they did not have to alter the game code.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by jotd

Some longtracks used gap and were artifically long so nibble copy was not possible ("7" appeared when copying).
However, RNWarp (and WWarp I think) can reduce the gap and copy original RN track disks (most Team 17 games). the copies are then warpable and copyable with XCopy (still no standard track but copies work).
Of course those are not 1:1 copies, but it fools the original loader so it's hard to tell the difference.
I'm talking of RN longtracks, not RN copylock tracks which cannot be copied (although I heard that it was possible with some special MFMWarp driver. Never saw it).

Another example: Leander cannot be nibbled but other Psygnosis games can (apart from RN copylock), and the format is the same (same decoder). Conclusion: Leander has a bigger gap.

Another example: Unreal cannot be copied, but back in the days I was given a nibbleable copy. Another case where they reduced the gap and it worked. The Unreal protection was horrible, so I guess it was easier that way

So it's true that some crackgroups created nibbleable non dos track "cracks" so they did not have to alter the game code.

Very interesting!

[dlfrsilver]

yes for those who don't know, superfrog, alien breed tower assault can be 100% replicated
with wwarp.

Supamax, if you have a HD on your a600, i can zone the wwp images

Your silkworm version had the longtrack check removed by quartex.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Your silkworm version had the longtrack check removed by quartex.

And you found it only now, after so much arguing, eh?
Now that I'm definitely right, I see many smiling faces from you

[dlfrsilver]

And you were wrong for barbarian and terrorpods !

it's an evidence..... there is nothing new.

Also, i have checked your fright night version...... it has gfx corruption, and the main code
code has been hacked just to write 'released by X'

Silkworm is a half cracked version. only a part has been removed.

I have more than 1300 games today where i can get the disk layout.

Powercopy has around 496 parameters + the many ones i have created myself from my
disks.

TOSEC speaking silkworm should renamed like this Silkworm (1988) (h quartex)

because it's mainly a hack.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

And you were wrong for barbarian and terrorpods !

it's an evidence..... there is nothing new.

Also, i have checked your fright night version...... it has gfx corruption, and the main code
code has been hacked just to write 'released by X'

Silkworm is a half cracked version. only a part has been removed.

I have more than 1300 games today where i can get the disk layout.

Powercopy has around 496 parameters + the many ones i have created myself from my
disks.

TOSEC speaking silkworm should renamed like this Silkworm (1988) (h quartex)

because it's mainly a hack.

Hi Denis,

1) I need Powercopyyyyyyyyyyyy!
2) Mmmm, I don't agree it's a hack. Since the longtrack protection has been removed (as you wrote), it's at least a partial crack... but since I can copy it on standard hw with standard sw (I keep repeating it more and more) I think it can be called "cracked", even if it requires a nibbler to be copied.

Massimo

[IFW]

I obviously checked the originals, as they are known to be correct.
If your versions are different they are definitely hacked.

Both Terrorpods and Barbarian could be easily hacked to run from a copy that does not need a nybbler, Silkworm has to be altered to skip the longtrack check.

[dlfrsilver]

Please find Fright night Original extended ADF in the zone, fully working

no bug, no shit, no sweat !!

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Please find Fright night Original extended ADF in the zone, fully working

no bug, no shit, no sweat !!

This is "simply" a dump of the original.
I found missing titles for TOSEC.
They are different things

Please dont' spam my thread with unwanted/unrelated informations.

[dlfrsilver]

it's related ! It's the proof you can copy it without hacking the code !

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

it's related ! It's the proof you can copy it without hacking the code !

So what? What has this to do with the dumps I kindly made and uploaded to The Zone?

[dlfrsilver]

Fright night has no protection. My version and yours can be copied

cracked = unprotected mmh !

[Supamax]

Fright Night has protections. It can't be copied with normal DOS copier.

It's time to close this thread. Moderator, are you there?

[dlfrsilver]

Ok, let me tell you one thing.

You know the game series Ishar from silmarils right ?
Those games are using a protection on disk, and a protection off-disk (passwords).

I have removed the longtrack check on those. It's barely a hack, because i have left
the manual protection intact.

A game cracked has its protection fully removed.
A game hacked has one part of its coded modified/removed.

No moderator will take part here since there is no spam, or unauthorized subject.

Just chatting about hacked/cracked games

[Supamax]

You are such an expert. Release PowerCopy Pro, cracked.
Thanks in advance

[dlfrsilver]

Unfortunately, The friend in charge of cracking the prog, has stopped.

I will ask to Stingray if he would agree to kill the protection check and bits.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Fright night has no protection. My version and yours can be copied

I really don't understand your point. It seems you only want to argue, and this happened since the beginning of the thread.
"My" version (but it's QUARTEX version) is modified and released by QUARTEX.
"Your" version is a backup, made by yourself, on .adf from the original .ipf.

My version has some hystorical value (for some collectors and/or for TOSEC), yours not.

[dlfrsilver]

There is no IPF of fright night => Atari st tracks used (not supported yet by SPS)

Made from my original disk.

"Your" fright night has gfx corruption btw.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

There is no IPF of fright night => Atari st tracks used (not supported yet by SPS)

You're right, sorry.

"Your" fright night has gfx corruption btw.

I know, but I'm not responsible of other's works/hacks/cracks. (I know what you'll answer to this, but go on as you like... Keep in mind that I'm very good in dumping. No less than you. But you have PowerCopy Pro, I havent' yet. However, the dumps are correct. I cannot say if the copy from which I copied it 20 years ago is completely Ok, though. We'll have to keep that one, until/if some better one comes out )

[dlfrsilver]

I won't go bashing you. Not my style.

Anyway, even when you'll get your hands on Powercopy, and also use the command for
longtracks, you will see that it won't be as easy as you tought.

You will need to train to get the right dumps

well with rawread it's a start it reads blindly. Powercopy is more powerfull, but more
complex (lots of parameters involved).

I have done most wanted games in extended ADF format (when not copylocked, or using
tracks with special timings).

Some of them are VERY tricky to do

I will also be able to give out disk images in powercopy own format will be easy to write back if no longtracks.

Good night

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

I won't go bashing you. Not my style.

You did, you did. From the beginning.

Anyway, even when you'll get your hands on Powercopy, and also use the command for
longtracks, you will see that it won't be as easy as you tought.

It will be just as easy as I'm expecting it to be. You learned (and you're not a cracker), I will learn. I'm very good in what I do.

[dlfrsilver]

1) i have done cracking i'm not the best out there at that, but i have removed in 2 minutes the dongle protection on the french version of Bat II from ubisoft, and in a very proper way

Once i removed the crack, the game works now 100% on A1200 and A4000. Which it wasn't at the start

- I did : Ishar OCS and 32 colors version AGA compatible, Ishar 2 ECS and AGA, Ishar 3 ECS and AGA (Only disk protection removed, the protection get in D6 register the track length, which if inferior to $18XX get the game to crash. Manual protection is intact.)

- BAT II (dongle protected), Murder in space (password protection), James Bond Licence to kill (copylock).

2) About powercopy, as i said, it can turn Hard sometimes to get the game imaged properly. I have not learned, i have used the manual (needed), and also documented myself about disk layouts. . I spend most of my time trying and finding how to image
the games.

We will see how you'll deal when you'll get it in your hands

[andreas]

Oh, I forgot to specify:
On the floppies there are NO cracker writings or credits.
But they are NOT original dumps!

Maybe those you mention are dumps done with Cyclone hardware?
I had such disks myself, e. g. Wolfchild.
My copy worked, but when I wanted to make a copy of the copy, I got an ugly crash. The guy who gave me the first copy must have copied that using Cyclone, so the clone works but is not possible to duplicate without hacking it.

Originally Posted by Supamax

QUESTION:
Since these "protected" crack did circulate back in the years, how did the many BBS's archive them? Did they use some type of primitive warper?

Simple: they used DMS (in rare cases also W(A)RP).

DMS *was* able to keep some non-ADOS information in its archives. OK yes, it's widely known that DMS is crap {TM}, but well, they did use it, didn't they.
So, if you unarchive special kinds of DMSes, you *might* skip some vital information if you just unarchive to standard ADF.

Yet: I don't think the Silkworm crack version you upped would really require extended ADF format.
To get facts straight: I'm 99% sure you could take this ext-adf and copy it to standard ADF without breaking anything. If Quartex didn't screw up something big time, the game ought to work to the end.

Can't speak about Fright Night, tho. Probably you're right here.

[Photon]

Is it difficult to image two nibble-copiable disk and do a binary file compare? I should think only the saved stuff like hiscore should differ in a binary compare.

Time for another SW quote: "This bickering is pointless". Images are uploaded to the zone. Either it's confirmable that they are identical, or it's not possible to say they are the same.

OK, butting out now :P

But it sure is strange that games are called cracked if they didn't change anything... educate me. You sure as hell know more than me about which images are new or not, but surely it should be possible to compare what you have with what people send?? And not go by in which order they load tracks?

[Galahad/FLT]

I find it unbelieveable that Quartex would even release a game in this format. Rob/Quartex was incredibly talented very early on in the life of the Amiga, i have no clue as to why their name should be on a release that has to be nibble copied, christ, not even Paranoimia would do that!

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I find it unbelieveable that Quartex would even release a game in this format. Rob/Quartex was incredibly talented very early on in the life of the Amiga, i have no clue as to why their name should be on a release that has to be nibble copied, christ, not even Paranoimia would do that!

Hi Galahad,
I don't know... perhaps he released them in a hurry during the first years of Amiga life?
As I wrote, I got them 20 years ago.

EDIT: I found at least another one by Quartex, with non-ADOS tracks. Perhaps in the early days Quartex got lazy and released a bunch of games this way...

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by Photon

Is it difficult to image two nibble-copiable disk and do a binary file compare? I should think only the saved stuff like hiscore should differ in a binary compare.

Hi,
no, it's impossible. At least not if the dump is made with RAWREAD. You can dump the same disk two times and you'll get two different extended adf's.

[dlfrsilver]

The fact is that Fright Night use the Steve Bak system :

The game starts via startup sequence and loader located on a DOS part on the disk,
and then loads custom MFM atari ST tracks.

Spitting Image works in a similar manner.

Fright Night by quartex is i think a standard ADF. Why ? because once compressed,
it's only 401kb (Steve Bak loves putting game on 1 side of the disk )

My original dump which is a real extended ADF holding the MFM custom format is 1965kb (Crunched !)

So yes Andreas is SURELY right. The easiest way is to find the quartex crack of fright night on amiga sites.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by andreas

Maybe those you mention are dumps done with Cyclone hardware?

Hi andreas,
no, I obtained my copy by using a nibble copier.
I'm 10.000% sure, since 20 years ago no hw copier Cyclone-like existed.

My copy worked, but when I wanted to make a copy of the copy, I got an ugly crash. The guy who gave me the first copy must have copied that using Cyclone, so the clone works but is not possible to duplicate without hacking it.

The floppies I dumped (and therefore the images I uploaded, too) are nibble-copyable. I repeat it, I dumped them with a nibble-copier

Simple: they used DMS (in rare cases also W(A)RP).

DMS *was* able to keep some non-ADOS information in its archives. OK yes, it's widely known that DMS is crap {TM}, but well, they did use it, didn't they.
So, if you unarchive special kinds of DMSes, you *might* skip some vital information if you just unarchive to standard ADF.

WOW, are you sure?? And how can I tell if a dms contains only normal ADOS tracks or not, for God's sake?
Does the unpacker has an option to show it?

Yet: I don't think the Silkworm crack version you upped would really require extended ADF format.
To get facts straight: I'm 99% sure you could take this ext-adf and copy it to standard ADF without breaking anything. If Quartex didn't screw up something big time, the game ought to work to the end.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!
If you want you can try to copy it (DOSCOPY+ option) with X-Copy, and you'll see that the game doesn't run any more.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

My original dump which is a real extended ADF holding the MFM custom format is 1965kb (Crunched !)

What do you mean? I compressed (right now) your dump and it's 411 KB.