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Old 14 January 2009, 18:08   #21
laffer
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Do you have bigger versions of those images? They're really nice.
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Old 14 January 2009, 21:00   #22
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Yes, but he don't need weapon from Beast 2.
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Old 15 January 2009, 03:17   #23
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The drawings seem to be from Beast 2.. the backdrops and the bridge there.
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Old 15 January 2009, 03:46   #24
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Yep, combination of the two games. The red robot is from the "number 1" box art, which featured them in the background behind the lemming hitting a tennis ball while standing on a biplane.

Thx for compliments. These are concepty type pictures that don't look good at bigger scale. If you want to see painter pictures used in platformers that are good looking check out: http://www.ninjalovespirate.com/ that guy is great.

Looking at beast three pics on lemon amiga it seems they tried having less saturated backdrop. Also, the plane is 3/4 view, not dead on. In my opinion looks bad. I think beast 2 is the best, so having things dead on, foreground less saturated.



I've got other projects but if I did a remake, it would have the look of beast 2 with the combat of beast 1. And you'd get to kill maletoth. Ending of beast 2 was a scam.
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Old 15 January 2009, 09:19   #25
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Interesting mashup sharprm It looks different, but really not bad at all. I hope you find the time to consider a remake
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Old 15 January 2009, 11:37   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharprm View Post
Looking at beast three pics on lemon amiga it seems they tried having less saturated backdrop. Also, the plane is 3/4 view, not dead on. In my opinion looks bad. I think beast 2 is the best, so having things dead on, foreground less saturated.

I've got other projects but if I did a remake, it would have the look of beast 2 with the combat of beast 1. And you'd get to kill maletoth. Ending of beast 2 was a scam.
i think that the real success of the second episode, design wise, is to cut much of the distraction from the scene and focus on the foreground, yet leaving a very suggestive feeling coming from the background.

but the first one was pictorially gorgeous nevertheless: i start often SotB 1 just to see the meadow and forest.

where the graphic was usually lacking (imho) is in the interiors: the only game that makes them interesting to me is the third, which has great animations too (for instance the exploding flowers in the forest level, the beast tribe...) but is lacking in mood big time in respect to the other 2 games: it feels tired.
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Old 18 January 2009, 04:51   #27
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Originally Posted by marco pedrana View Post
i think that the real success of the second episode, design wise, is to cut much of the distraction from the scene and focus on the foreground, yet leaving a very suggestive feeling coming from the background.

but the first one was pictorially gorgeous nevertheless: i start often SotB 1 just to see the meadow and forest.

where the graphic was usually lacking (imho) is in the interiors: the only game that makes them interesting to me is the third, which has great animations too (for instance the exploding flowers in the forest level, the beast tribe...) but is lacking in mood big time in respect to the other 2 games: it feels tired.
Good points there. I think for beast 3 they should have made a better hat. Its interesting how the intro is not 2d painted art and scanned (like beast 2) but is pixelled.

Here is a mockup more like the pictorially georgeous route but showing two alternatives - fading to lighter or fading to darker. Which do you guys prefer?



edit: maybe should say that this is taken from beast 2 title screen.

Last edited by sharprm; 18 January 2009 at 09:09.
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Old 18 January 2009, 07:42   #28
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Some pixel art people are fundamentalist type retarded. Instead of thinking of pixel art as an aesthetic or 'end', they have a narrow definition of pixel art based on the method or 'means'. That is, pixel art is "each pixel being placed by hand". So they can ignore the end (sometimes awesome art) and potentially insult the artist and feel justified in doing so because he/she "used dirty tricks to get to the end".

Completely agree with you, and man, your art is beautiful.
For some people even if I use the "line" tool on DP, is travesty. fuck that.
Certainly, using DP's antialias tool is easy, but depends. I did use it after I selected my own palette to shade. Otherwise it works like shit. But I used to degrade each pixel sort of by hand. It just helped me elect automatically the colors for the next pixels instead of pressing '[' and ']' all the fkng time.
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Old 18 January 2009, 09:08   #29
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Completely agree with you, and man, your art is beautiful.
For some people even if I use the "line" tool on DP, is travesty. fuck that.
Certainly, using DP's antialias tool is easy, but depends. I did use it after I selected my own palette to shade. Otherwise it works like shit. But I used to degrade each pixel sort of by hand. It just helped me elect automatically the colors for the next pixels instead of pressing '[' and ']' all the fkng time.
Thanks akira. Artists should want to save time and shouldn't feel dirty using tools like darken etc. The definition is moronic. Here's why:

1. You can make pixel art that looks like non-pixel art (eg. last ninja remix is messy and looks a bit like color reduced art), and you can even take a painter image [this program lets you use brushes that simulate real brushes] and (provided you color reduce cleverly) you can dress it up like pixel art. The method definition relies on everyone to post 'wip' animations and even they could be faked.

2. You have no idea whether real pixel artists (the guys who got paid to work on good games, past and present) used tools etc. Its also possible some things can't be done without using tools. Once i tried drawing hay without tools and it drove me nuts. click click clickety click. Thats why i got into non-pixel art tricks. If you haven't used it, try Painter. It really improved my pixel art once I started using it because painting teaches you important things like color selection.

So in conclusion the definition is unworkable and holds artists back.

I don't think there were these simplistic "definitions" until forums came about, yes? [I just made that fact up ] Perhaps its just a product of retentive type moderators.

To me, pixel art are clean pictures [low colors and size helps this] and has lots of detail (eg. chaos engine type shiny bits, no areas left messy which you can have in paintings). Its an aesthetic, not a method. However you get there is unimportant. So as long as you clean up your anti-aliasing there is no problem.

In regards to the shadow remake. I think the pixel art tricks developed since sotb1 (that 'refinement' mentioned by the moderator) could be used in a remake and the remake could still have atmosphere. I was looking at a city level in 'contra 4' today which has good color scheme for the background and uses those pixel art tricks for the characters etc. Here is a mockup for how karamoon would look:



Check out 'contra 4' if you wanted to see the 'refinemed' pixel art things on the characters. Some of the backgrounds are by the guy who did 'Lionheart' so the amiga still 'wins' .
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Old 18 January 2009, 15:16   #30
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Originally Posted by sharprm View Post
Good points there. I think for beast 3 they should have made a better hat. Its interesting how the intro is not 2d painted art and scanned (like beast 2) but is pixelled.

Here is a mockup more like the pictorially georgeous route but showing two alternatives - fading to lighter or fading to darker. Which do you guys prefer?



edit: maybe should say that this is taken from beast 2 title screen.
i think the second one focuses too much on what it seems a middle ground (and is instead the dark horizon). the colour scheme is great , but the focus is off.

the first one has a great flow in deepness, so that the eye is walked to the distant horizon and there it get lost in the mist and this effect is beautiful, yet not disturbing, as the foreground is perfectly stated, even if a bit too much coloured (imho)

cool works nevertheless!
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Old 18 January 2009, 20:20   #31
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the first one is spectacular. I have no other words for it. The second one doesn't have a fitting color palette IMHO.
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Old 18 January 2009, 20:31   #32
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Completely agree with gimbal on this one. The first picture has great colours and the atmosphere is just great. The second one doesn't feel 'right'. The backgorund looks too bright. Would really love to see the first one in a higher resolution
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Old 19 January 2009, 02:04   #33
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Good point marco. shading the silhouette from below was probably wrong since it looks like light reflected from foreground (and hence close). I should shade from a different angle and put yellow clouds behind to make it seem less like middle ground.

beautiful but not disturbing - methinks Karamoon should be disturbing.

cyberdruid - the first one is from beast so the only way you could see it at higher resolution is if someone resized it and painted over it.

Anyway this is a bit academic. I'll let you guys know if I start a remake.

I'd go for a combination of the contra4 and the second one. The thing I don't like about contra 4 is the high saturation foreground/middle ground which is a bit 'icecream' colors which makes it less disturbing. At the same time you need things to stand out against each other so if the foreground is low saturation, you need a high saturation character (orange guy in beast 2) or a very light character (the albino chick I drew for the second one).
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Old 19 January 2009, 05:55   #34
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Everyone today thinks pixelart is blocky aliased pixel shit, or even worse, isometric aliased stuff like eBoy. These people would consider any antialiasing, even if done by hand, a travesty. I direct this people to work by guys like Made and Cyclone and tell them to stfu.

Reality is, back then, you only had these "pixel tools" to do your jobs. "Pixelart" was not an election, an option, it's what people had, and they had to make the most out of it. Of course they used tools and not did it pixel by fucking pixel, it's retarded to think they did this, time-consumingly ignorant. most active demoscene pixellers had to meet deadlines for prods, so stupidity like pushing by hand each pixel on a 320x256 screen was possibly out of the question.

If someone wanted to do it, great! But that doesn't make it better or worse.

Judge the end product
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Old 19 January 2009, 11:41   #35
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don't give yourself a heart attack there Akira, your point is well made and I'm sure everyone here agrees with you
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Old 19 January 2009, 12:04   #36
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beautiful but not disturbing - methinks Karamoon should be disturbing.
yeah sorry, i missed the correct word. i meant distracting
and beautiful in the sense that it has a magic, distant, exotic and unreachable feeling.

if the whole background of the game was as such (and the game of easier gameplay) it would have been probably one of the best games ever.
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Old 19 January 2009, 12:42   #37
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don't give yourself a heart attack there Akira, your point is well made and I'm sure everyone here agrees with you
No! Everyone will tell you to let it go and move on, but don't! Instead, let it fester and boil inside of you! Take these feelings and lock them away. Let them fuel your actions. Let hate be your ally, and you will be capable of wonderful, horrid things. Heed my words, Goob: don't let it go.

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/36646.htm
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Old 19 January 2009, 13:13   #38
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hahaha, I see you carry a little crusade... nice! Sometimes I feel like leaving there a comment (like yours or akira's as I agree with things said in the thread) but as I dont submit pieces it would not be valid (people who dont do "art" are lame and have nothing to say, this is a rule), so I just keep my mouth shut
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Old 19 January 2009, 14:06   #39
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hahaha, I see you carry a little crusade... nice! Sometimes I feel like leaving there a comment (like yours or akira's as I agree with things said in the thread) but as I dont submit pieces it would not be valid (people who dont do "art" are lame and have nothing to say, this is a rule), so I just keep my mouth shut
I wouldn't call it a crusade ... more a futile attempt to persuade a large number of people that they should dispense with their simple understanding of the world and start to think for themselves. There are plenty of smart people there but unless you want to draw realistic art, theres no incentive to try to get the definition changed. If you make simple shaded stuff (or c64 type resticive art) you have an incentive to keep the definition the same.

"Each pixel by hand" is a slogan which that that piece attacked. Apparently thats how you sell things to the masses - use slogans. I just need a better slogan to persuade the people at Pixel joint. It must be simple. It must make them feel smart repeating it. "As long as it would work on an Amiga"?

Anywya, been screwing around with it.



Maybe I should take a shot at the beutiful but not distracting scenery ...

edit: whoops. didn't do proper research. I should be pilfering ideas straight from Roger Dean (fantasy artist who did box covers) instead of recycling beast game art.

Last edited by sharprm; 22 January 2009 at 12:47. Reason: update but didn't want to bump
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Old 19 January 2009, 14:37   #40
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It is starting to look more like Blackthorne than Shadow of the Beast. But that pic makes me want to play it, it certainly has a unique atmosphere now.
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