Keyboard layout: missing keys

[hexaae]

I've bought a new laptop and migrated my old WUAE config into the new.
They apparently have the same keyboard (both are HP Laptops and have same keys, except different Quicklaunch buttons).
The problem in short is that the keys detected by the Input panel are different (what is "Kana" key?? I don't have japanese keyboards ) or missing some (e.g. no "[56]" key so I can't use "<, >" keys on the Amiga side)... I cannot remap them since they are not correctly detected...
Tested on WinUAE 1.5.4b4, Laptop HP Pavilion dv-5 1110el, Italian keyboard.

[Toni Wilen]

It is keyboard driver bug that reports bogus data..

Snip from email about similar problem:

First I updated DirectX which didn’t brought success.
Then I looked into the driver package and found there are alao extended
configuration setups which control MediaPlayer functions. Email etc.

Indeed there are four control programs. I found that I did only update
the main-driver last time.When I updated the other control programs and
started WinUAE with the icon. I found that it run up and I was able to
configure and use WinUAE.

[hexaae]

Sorry... I still can't understand: how do I solve this? What driver package is he talking about?

-some mins later-

These settings?



All drivers are updated.

[Toni Wilen]

I didn't get any better explanation, sorry.. I only know there was multiple keyboard/multimedia drivers that required updating.

You can try "winuae.exe -rawkeyboard" workaround but you most likely miss many special keys..

[hexaae]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I didn't get any better explanation, sorry.. I only know there was multiple keyboard/multimedia drivers that required updating.

You can try "winuae.exe -rawkeyboard" workaround but you most likely miss many special keys..

Interesting... WUAE reports as selected keyboard "Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109" which is wrong detection
Should use "Standard 101/102 keys..." as you can see in the picture in my previous msg...

EDIT:

Windows panel when I select 1st keyboard in the list says: "Path: connected to the keyboard port" correctly. For "Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109" insted says: "Path: on InfraRed receiver Microsoft eHome".
My laptop infact does have also an IR port for multimedia remote controller...
It's like WUAE inspects the wrong port.

PS
Using -rawkeyboard at least I can specify all keys included those missing. Thanks for the temp workaround.

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by hexaae

Windows panel when I select 1st keyboard in the list says: "Path: connected to the keyboard port" correctly. For "Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109" insted says: "Path: on InfraRed receiver Microsoft eHome".
My laptop infact does have also an IR port for multimedia remote controller...
It's like WUAE inspects the wrong port.

All device strings come from DirectInput. WinUAE does not really choose anything because normally (always?) there is only one DI keyboard.

Attach complete winuaebootlog.txt, thanks.

[hexaae]

Here is the log

[hexaae]

Do you see something strange in the log?

[Toni Wilen]

Nothing interesting. Keyboard with bogus keys returned.

Note that all NT-based Windows versions always return single directinput keyboard, even if there are multiple real keyboards.

There is nothing I can do.

[thomas]

I had this problem, too, on my new Acer laptop with preinstalled Vista. The only cure was to make a new clean install of Vista from an OEM DVD (a real installation DVD, not the recovery DVD which I burnt from the HDD contents) and only install the needed drivers, nothing which was already included in Vista.

Although I managed to redefine all missing keys except one on the Input panel.

[hexaae]

Mine is a fresh new install too I've changed laptop...

@Toni
How do I enable rawkey by default without -rawkeyboard cmd line option?
And/or can I force a key mapping for a missing key adding something like "input.1.keyboard.0.button.56=xxxxxxx.0" in the config?

[thomas]

Originally Posted by hexaae

Mine is a fresh new install too I've changed laptop...

Wasn't it preinstalled ? Did you do the installation ? Did you download all the latest drivers from your laptop's manufacturer's homepage ? Did you install Windows, tried WinUAE -> worked, installed one driver, tried WinUAE -> worked, installed another driver, tried WinUAE -> worked and so on until you identified the driver which caused the problem (or until you were satisfied and left out the remaining unneeded drivers) ?

[hexaae]

Originally Posted by thomas

Wasn't it preinstalled ? Did you do the installation ? Did you download all the latest drivers from your laptop's manufacturer's homepage ? Did you install Windows, tried WinUAE -> worked, installed one driver, tried WinUAE -> worked, installed another driver, tried WinUAE -> worked and so on until you identified the driver which caused the problem (or until you were satisfied and left out the remaining unneeded drivers) ?

Yes, there is nothing wrong in my HW/driver config and everything is up-to date. I have 4 keyboard drivers as you can see from my 3rd msg but I guess I need them to make extra QuickLaunch keys + IR remote controller work. All keys work fine from Windows side, and with -rawkeyboard WUAE apparently chooses a different keyboard that does have all keys I need.

[Toni Wilen]

All keys work fine from Windows side, and with -rawkeyboard WUAE apparently chooses a different keyboard that does have all keys I need.

Rawkeyboard uses completely different API (XP and Vista only)

--

DirectInput gives you list of available keys depending on used keyboard (at least in theory as you can see..)

Rawinput does not give you information about physical keyboard, only list of all possible keycodes (existing or not)

and finally there is normal Windows keyboard events: can't be used in WinUAE because it does not allow windows keys or any other special keys to be used. (without side-effects)

[hexaae]

Can I turn -rawkeyboard on by default without the need of the cmd line launch?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by hexaae

Can I turn -rawkeyboard on by default without the need of the cmd line launch?

Not (yet) without creating shortcut icon or something similar.

[hexaae]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Not (yet) without creating shortcut icon or something similar.

Please, can you add this option? Thank you!

[hexaae]

@Toni
This is the exact description of the keyboards & IDs on my laptop:

Descrizione	Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard with HP QLB
Nome	Avanzata (101 o 102 tasti)
Layout	00000410
ID periferica PNP	ACPI\PNP0303\4&54D76F7&0
Numero di tasti funzione	12
Porta I/O	0x00000060-0x00000060
Porta I/O	0x00000064-0x00000064
Canale IRQ	IRQ 1
Driver	c:\windows\system32\drivers\i8042prt.sys (6.0.6001.18000, 53,50 KB (54.784 Byte), 21/01/2008 3.23)
	
Descrizione	Tasti di tastiera controllo remoto Microsoft eHome
Nome	Avanzata (101 o 102 tasti)
Layout	00000410
ID periferica PNP	HID\IRDEVICE&COL05\2&D6067AB&0&0004
Numero di tasti funzione	12
Driver	c:\windows\system32\drivers\kbdhid.sys (6.0.6001.18000, 15,50 KB (15.872 Byte), 02/11/2006 9.51)
	
Descrizione	Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR
Nome	Avanzata (101 o 102 tasti)
Layout	00000410
ID periferica PNP	HID\IRDEVICE&COL06\2&D6067AB&0&0005
Numero di tasti funzione	12
Driver	c:\windows\system32\drivers\kbdhid.sys (6.0.6001.18000, 15,50 KB (15.872 Byte), 02/11/2006 9.51)
	
Descrizione	Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109
Nome	Avanzata (101 o 102 tasti)
Layout	00000410
ID periferica PNP	HID\IRDEVICE&COL07\2&D6067AB&0&0006
Numero di tasti funzione	12
Driver	c:\windows\system32\drivers\kbdhid.sys (6.0.6001.18000, 15,50 KB (15.872 Byte), 02/11/2006 9.51)

So, it's all right in WUAE's DirectInput keyboard selection?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by hexaae

So, it's all right in WUAE's DirectInput keyboard selection?

I guess I need to explain how DirectInput works (or how I think it works, it is weird as usual)

Perhaps during 9x era it was "direct", now it is completely virtual. VirtualDirectInput is perhaps better word today

Ok, when application asks for directinput keyboard, it only gets one (even if there are multiple real keyboards). I am not sure how it decides which kind of directinput keyboard you get in this case (maybe it merges both layouts?) but in your case some driver or directinput itself guesses wrong.

There is nothing the application can do. It has to believe what directinput tells it (because in some locale it could be legal layout)

Rawkeyboard mode may be the default in future (because it allows multiple independent keyboards). Needs more mork..

btw, in latest beta you can add "Commandline=-rawkeyboard" in registry or ini and you get rawkeyboard automatically.

[hexaae]

Thanks

Do you know other programs I can test to confirm my weird DirectInput detection?

[hexaae]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I guess I need to explain how DirectInput works (or how I think it works, it is weird as usual)

Perhaps during 9x era it was "direct", now it is completely virtual. VirtualDirectInput is perhaps better word today

Ok, when application asks for directinput keyboard, it only gets one (even if there are multiple real keyboards). I am not sure how it decides which kind of directinput keyboard you get in this case (maybe it merges both layouts?) but in your case some driver or directinput itself guesses wrong.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...03(VS.85).aspx

[Toni Wilen]

What? It is GUID_SysKeyboard that is used by WinUAE. Nothing new there.

[hexaae]

I can't understand what's the meaning of:
Note If the computer has more than one mouse, input from all mice is combined to form the system device. The same is true for multiple keyboards.

"merging" 2 or more layout is crazy IMHO...

However the prob is that with WUAE I can't choose some keys (e.g. 0x56: '<' near the Z key). If layouts are merged should show MORE keys, not less than 1 layout... am I wrong? Is DI buggy?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by hexaae

I can't understand what's the meaning of:
Note If the computer has more than one mouse, input from all mice is combined to form the system device. The same is true for multiple keyboards.

"merging" 2 or more layout is crazy IMHO...

Yes, it is very annoying. At least multiple mouse can be handled separately quite easily with rawinput (XP or newer) but multiple keyboard is more complex (and annoying) to handle properly.

However the prob is that with WUAE I can't choose some keys (e.g. 0x56: '<' near the Z key). If layouts are merged should show MORE keys, not less than 1 layout... am I wrong? Is DI buggy?

Some keyboard driver or directinput. WinUAE only reports what directinput tells.

[hexaae]

I've found that also DosBox emulator doesn't detect those keys!
I tried to uninstall HP Keyboard driver using Vista's default PS/2 driver but those keys are still unavailable...

Someone has solved this problem with these HP laptops???

[hexaae]

Maybe I've found an interesting discussion about DI's problems, but I'm not expert nor I've ever coded for Windows...
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...opic_id=468513

http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...ply_id=3074105

http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...opic_id=519794

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by hexaae

Maybe I've found an interesting discussion about DI's problems, but I'm not expert nor I've ever coded for Windows...
http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...opic_id=468513

http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...ply_id=3074105

http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...opic_id=519794

Yes, for "normal" keyboard input DirectInput is wrong choice but for example it is near-perfect for emulators because you always want raw keycodes and you DO NOT want any keyboard layout conversions.

WM_CHAR (normal Windows messages) is totally unusable because you can't read any special keys. (at least without side-effects)

WM_INPUT works but I am not ready to drop keyboard directinput support just yet (they won't work simultaneously)

[hexaae]

I've found a flawlessly solution to solve the problem without drawbacks! :-)

My system had 4 keyboard drivers installed:

• Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard with HP QLB
• Tasti di tastiera controllo remoto Microsfot eHome (=remote control)
• Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR (?)
• Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109 (????????????)

Since I noticed WUAE showed 'Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109' when using -rawkeyboard I had the idea to remove it from Device manager. To be exact I manually changed (=forced installation) the driver for it to be generic 'HID compatible device' (this left just the first 3 keyboards and created another generic HID device in the HID node list) and.... it worked!!
Now all emulators give me back the correct keys, and WUAE also works without -rawkeyboard (now shows 'Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR') with all keys available, also <, ì, è, + etc. correctly mapped as I see on the keyboard!

All in all it seems it was a wrong driver device detection adding an unexistant keyboard to the list, that merged in the whole virtual keyboard used by DirectInput and caused all the troubles!
Phew... I couldn't find a better solution, and the system runs fine, including the 2 remote controller and HP Quicklaunh buttons so it's all right!

Thank you again Toni for your infinte patience that has driven me in the right direction!
And thank you for WUAE that in this strange case geve me the clue to solve a HW/driver problem as well

PS
Simply uninstalling 'Tastiera Microsoft eHome MCIR 109' was not enough as Vista automatically would have found and reinstalled this keyboard!