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Old 14 April 2014, 21:26   #401
pandy71
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Originally Posted by lordofchaos View Post
No, the Atari ST is not natively 60Hz, at least not in Europe so this would no real impact. Also depending on the type of game the YT cap of 30fps may not affect it, for example if it's a 3d game that runs below 30fps (which most amiga/Atari games do), smooth scrolling platformers and shooters may be different thought. I've kept everything locked to 30fps, it's a real shame youtube doesn't support 50/60 fps..

Oh no, it is a huge difference (25 vs 30 or 50 vs 60) - this is why nowadays they introduce some special hardware solution like NVidia G-Sync http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync
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Old 14 April 2014, 21:29   #402
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It's simple:

Pal STs are 50 Hz. NTSC STs are 60 Hz.

The reason you see more STs at 60 Hz and Amigas at 50 Hz is because the ST found early success in North America while the Amiga had more success in Europe, IMO.
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Old 14 April 2014, 21:31   #403
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And of course more ST than Amiga games have an ingame option to switch to 60Hz, or were patched by crackers to 60Hz.
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Old 14 April 2014, 21:39   #404
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Oh no, it is a huge difference (25 vs 30 or 50 vs 60) - this is why nowadays they introduce some special hardware solution like NVidia G-Sync http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync
Maybe for modern games where these differences are more apparent but 3d games back in the 80's/90's not so much, although it's very easy to feel/notice when playing 2d scrolling titles like Turrican or x-out.

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The reason you see more STs at 60 Hz and Amigas at 50 Hz is because the ST found early success in North America while the Amiga had more success in Europe, IMO.
Well I didn't know that, interesting

Last edited by lordofchaos; 14 April 2014 at 21:45.
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Old 14 April 2014, 21:52   #405
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Time for another Amiga V Atari ST video, Armour Geddon.

[ Show youtube player ]
Another 3d disappointment. Minimal blitter usage.

Did anyone actually use hardware area fill for an Amiga 3d game?

I'd like to see an example.
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Old 14 April 2014, 22:01   #406
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Another 3d disappointment. Minimal blitter usage.

Did anyone actually use hardware area fill for an Amiga 3d game?

I'd like to see an example.
Surely C.A.P. does? If it doesn't it's quite an achievement! If my cloudy memory serves me right it ran smooth on the A500...
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Old 14 April 2014, 22:12   #407
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Surely C.A.P. does? If it doesn't it's quite an achievement! If my cloudy memory serves me right it ran smooth on the A500...
C.A.P.? I don't think I've ever seen it.

Can you tell me more?

Edit:

I suppose that when it comes to 3d on the Amiga and blitter area fill, the trouble is that most of the math must be done before rendering the first poly. Unless one is willing to accept large latencies between between input and rendering, overlapping computation with polyfill is difficult.
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Old 14 April 2014, 22:20   #408
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I probably should of said Combat Air Patrol :-) Another Psygnosis effort.

http://hol.abime.net/3067

I remember system linking this with my brother, couldn't make heads or tails of it at the time, that and we had no manual.

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I suppose that when it comes to 3d on the Amiga and blitter area fill, the trouble is that most of the math must be done before rendering the first poly. Unless one is willing to accept large latencies between between input and rendering, overlapping computation with polyfill is difficult.
To be honest when it comes to that level of knowledge regarding 3d in programming terms, I`m as thick as a whale omelette.

Last edited by lordofchaos; 14 April 2014 at 22:33.
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Old 14 April 2014, 23:01   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc6809e View Post
It's simple:

Pal STs are 50 Hz. NTSC STs are 60 Hz.

The reason you see more STs at 60 Hz and Amigas at 50 Hz is because the ST found early success in North America while the Amiga had more success in Europe, IMO.
This is actually talking about bananas and apples.

The ST screen has a refresh of 72Hz, that's why ST are not working correctly on flat screens and LCD screens.

However, no games are running at 60hz (don't mind 50hz).

Most Amiga games are using 50fps/50hz and 60fps/60hz for NTSC games.

Most ST games have a refresh of 10 to 25fps. Only a few are 50fps.

Even if youtube accepted it, it wouldn't change anything. The same game on both ST and amiga whatever the refresh of the game would be slower on ST, whatever happens.
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Old 14 April 2014, 23:07   #410
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Counted FPS in games has nothing to do with 50/60Hz video output. PAL ST always output 50Hz, and NTSC 60Hz. Just like Amiga games.

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The ST screen has a refresh of 72Hz, that's why ST are not working correctly on flat screens and LCD screens.
That is true for 640x400 hires monochrome, but not for the colored lores games.

Quote:
However, no games are running at 60hz (don't mind 50hz).
Of course there are some games that run in 60Hz. Try F5/F6 at the title screen of Eliminator or Nebulus.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 15 April 2014 at 00:57.
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Old 14 April 2014, 23:16   #411
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IMHO when some games switched to 60Hz on Amiga they run perceptively better - this is why i made on my A500 HW switch for 50/60Hz - as CPU clock stay at same value then only VSync seem to be important.

OK, after brief schematics checking seem that Atari use different crystal for PAL version.
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Old 29 June 2014, 14:01   #412
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Here's another Atari V Amiga video, Speedball 2 this time :-)

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 29 June 2014, 20:44   #413
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What is wrong with the pitch in the ST version? Coulb it not render angled lines and rivets?
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Old 06 September 2014, 15:01   #414
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Another versus video, Fire And Ice.

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Old 06 September 2014, 15:05   #415
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I never thought the game was all that smooth on the Amiga, but that ST version is just pathetic. Unplayable.
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Old 06 September 2014, 15:17   #416
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To be honest a lot of amiga games had terrible jerky scrolling... Looking at turrican 2 you have to ask yourself why..
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Old 06 September 2014, 15:20   #417
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Why? Till 1990 we got mostly 1:1 ST ports. This game would need at least an STE. You can cleary see it's an Amiga original development (minus the scrolling problems Braybrook had on the Amiga).
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Old 06 September 2014, 15:21   #418
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I never thought the game was all that smooth on the Amiga, but that ST version is just pathetic. Unplayable.
I know what you mean, and to think I used to play the ST version
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Old 06 September 2014, 18:09   #419
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Painfully slow, but running nevertheless, it's frontier!

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Old 06 September 2014, 18:11   #420
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Atari ST version should have faster and more smooth intro but for some reason not. Almost all vector games are slightly faster on ST.
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