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Old 18 September 2010, 00:22   #341
skan
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Timer B. Most of the time the copper was underused on the Amiga.
"Most of the times"?
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Old 18 September 2010, 02:16   #342
Jonathan Drain
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I dont know why you couldnt have a Amiga emulator on other 68000 machines#
No 68k chip is fast enough to emulate an Amiga. You need maybe a 200MHz Pentium II to run WinUAE.
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Old 18 September 2010, 05:11   #343
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No 68k chip is fast enough to emulate an Amiga. You need maybe a 200MHz Pentium II to run WinUAE.
But it wouldn't have to emulate the Amiga and it's 68k chip.
It would only have to emulate the Custom Chips/kickstart/etc...

The 68k commands would be handled basically straight across.

In the same way that the Amiga and the ST can emulate the Mac of the time.

Considering the complexity of the Amiga's custom graphics tho, it would be tricky..

It would probably be impossible to produce a good emulator...
But, an emulator on the ST that could run a small subset of Amiga programs, especially ones that are very simple... maybe..

It would have to be the pretty simple programs tho..
You know, like the games that were ported from the ST...

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Old 18 September 2010, 08:03   #344
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You know, like the games that were ported from the ST...
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Old 18 September 2010, 11:19   #345
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So, a game that didn't use the copper could in theory be emulated on the STE. Did anybody ever try?
The STE can get quite close to the Amiga. Rasters have the same colour range, sound costs more CPU time, it has a blitter and hw scrolling. It doesn't have anything like dual playfield, hardware sprites or horizontal overscan. For rasters, split screen parallax etc it's capable enough. You could port many Amiga games to it and run them in one VBL.

Last edited by frank_b; 18 September 2010 at 11:25.
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Old 18 September 2010, 11:23   #346
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So...

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Did anybody ever try?
Emulator or port that is.
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Old 18 September 2010, 11:23   #347
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"Most of the times"?
It's generally used for colour rasters and resetting the screen pointers/hw scroll values. If you're lucky it's used to get an extra background layer sans sprite DMA. It can be used to

1) trigger very accurate CPU interrupts
2) loop using skip/wait with a mask
3) drive the blitter for beam sync blits
4) generate horizontal rasters

It's very cool.
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Old 18 September 2010, 11:24   #348
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So...



Emulator or port that is.
What you guys call an ST emulator on the Amiga is more like a TOS port.
Hatari is a real emulator and it would be dog slow even on an 060.
It might be possible to get uae running on an ST or a Falcon but it would probably take minutes between screen updates Might be interesting on a firebee as that should have more grunt.
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Old 18 September 2010, 11:32   #349
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I take that as a 'no' then
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Old 18 September 2010, 12:29   #350
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thats a relief

nice pic paul as my mate dropped his phone down the loo the other day, if only it had ended up in the valley
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Old 18 September 2010, 12:57   #351
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Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
It's generally used for colour rasters and resetting the screen pointers/hw scroll values. If you're lucky it's used to get an extra background layer sans sprite DMA. It can be used to

1) trigger very accurate CPU interrupts
2) loop using skip/wait with a mask
3) drive the blitter for beam sync blits
4) generate horizontal rasters

It's very cool.
Thanx, I think I already know what the copper does actually.
I was referring to your statement that it was "underused most of the times" " in Amiga games, which I think it's not exactly correct to say the least!

Last edited by skan; 18 September 2010 at 13:00. Reason: wrong quote
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Old 18 September 2010, 16:29   #352
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Thanx, I think I already know what the copper does actually.
I was referring to your statement that it was "underused most of the times" " in Amiga games, which I think it's not exactly correct to say the least!
Well most games don't do much more than use it to set up bpl pointers, hscroll and change colour 0. Both can be achieved trivially on the STE with timer B or an HBL interrupt. How many games can you point to which say change res midway down the screen or have horizontal rasters? Demos used it to greater effect. Copper chunky for example.

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Old 18 September 2010, 16:57   #353
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Well most games don't do much more than use it to set up bpl pointers, hscroll and change colour 0. Both can be achieved trivially on the STE with timer B or an HBL interrupt. How many games can you point to which say change res midway down the screen or have horizontal rasters? Demos used it to greater effect. Copper chunky for example.

Frank
OK, so now go and "port many Amiga games to it and run them in one VBL."
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Old 18 September 2010, 17:02   #354
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OK, so now go and "port many Amiga games to it and run them in one VBL."
Sure if you pay me lots of cash. I was a games programmer before moving to embedded software
There's already an Atari product out there with my name on it
Every reverse engineered game on it runs in one VBL too

I am planning on taking some time off next year and doing something which might help writing games for my favourite platforms (STe and Amiga). Depends on how much free time I have.

Last edited by frank_b; 18 September 2010 at 17:08.
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Old 18 September 2010, 17:26   #355
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Sure if you pay me lots of cash.
NO WAY!

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Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
I was a games programmer before moving to embedded software
Links pleeze! Now I'm curious!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
There's already an Atari product out there with my name on it
Every reverse engineered game on it runs in one VBL too
As above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
I am planning on taking some time off next year and doing something which might help writing games for my favourite platforms (STe and Amiga). Depends on how much free time I have.
Cool. Each time I take some time off to do something I've planned, I end up doing shitloads of different other things! Good luck anyway!
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Old 18 September 2010, 17:49   #356
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NO WAY!


Links pleeze! Now I'm curious!


As above.


Cool. Each time I take some time off to do something I've planned, I end up doing shitloads of different other things! Good luck anyway!
OK here's some old stuff

Atari TV games -> 10 reverse engineered 2600 games shifted onto a new hardware platform

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atari-Classi.../dp/B0000994US

GBA games

http://www.gamespot.com/gba/sports/n...002/index.html

Done lots of mobile stuff too. I was a bit too late for the ST/Amiga hayday but I did use both an STE and 1200 for demo purposes at a job interview

Nowadays I'm working on embedded software. Once I've finished up in Paris I'll do something old school on the miggy and ste
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Old 18 September 2010, 17:52   #357
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Haha cool, I've seen one of those Atari-packed sticks in a shop not much time ago!
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Old 18 September 2010, 18:22   #358
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Haha cool, I've seen one of those Atari-packed sticks in a shop not much time ago!

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Old 19 September 2010, 11:27   #359
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I am planning on taking some time off next year and doing something which might help writing games for my favourite platforms (STe and Amiga). Depends on how much free time I have.
Do you have any ideas on what to do? If not then Uncle Tom has done lots of graphics for an Amiga platform game called "Axe'n crossbow" and he don't mind if it is used for Amiga (or STE) game, actually he even wants to help doing it

here is a mockup screenshot:

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Old 19 September 2010, 13:33   #360
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Do you have any ideas on what to do? If not then Uncle Tom has done lots of graphics for an Amiga platform game called "Axe'n crossbow" and he don't mind if it is used for Amiga (or STE) game, actually he even wants to help doing it

here is a mockup screenshot:

That's very nice artwork.

Yes. I plan on writing (or re implmenting something I've done before) a portable C based API for writing games. Maybe with some ASM to speed up the time critical parts. Oh and the API will be open source too. BSD licensed.

SDL is way too heavyweight for these old machines. I'm not going to write a game as is but I am going to develop the tools necessary to write fast portable arcade games in C. The idea is to be able to target the STE then port trivially to the Amiga perhaps with enhanced art assets. Anybody who knows C ought to be able to produce nice video games for both platforms.
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