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Old 10 September 2009, 22:36   #301
lost_lemming
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haha, I'm a bit late on this thread but, it's 2009. Can't beleive this amiga vs st war is STILL going on when it's obvious the miggy had better graphics and sound. you only have to look and listen!! why don't all these st fans just admit defeat?
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Old 10 September 2009, 23:30   #302
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when we'll get Super Sprint on the Amiga

They'll when we'll get Super Sprint on the Amiga
Quite frankly I was near to buy a ST because a friend of mine got one and I was still on the Spectrum while playing C64 on friends house.
I didn't when I saw a picture of Marble madness on a french magazine, I decided then to buy an A500, can't afford the A1000 at the time.
What I'd loved about the ST was the 640/400 b/w monitor, to me the Amiga never beat it.

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Originally Posted by lost_lemming View Post
haha, I'm a bit late on this thread but, it's 2009. Can't beleive this amiga vs st war is STILL going on when it's obvious the miggy had better graphics and sound. you only have to look and listen!! why don't all these st fans just admit defeat?
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Old 10 September 2009, 23:51   #303
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They'll when we'll get Super Sprint on the Amiga
Quite frankly I was near to buy a ST because a friend of mine got one and I was still on the Spectrum while playing C64 on friends house.
I didn't when I saw a picture of Marble madness on a french magazine, I decided then to buy an A500, can't afford the A1000 at the time.
What I'd loved about the ST was the 640/400 b/w monitor, to me the Amiga never beat it.

kml
There shouldn't be a "war" in 2009 at all. I can't be the only person in the world who likes and owns both Amigas and STs. The retro gamers/coders etc should stick together and not try and alienate people from either scene. It's not as if there's new Amiga/ST users popping up every few days now.
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Old 10 September 2009, 23:55   #304
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Well what i always like on ahle2 statements is that he has the technical knowledge.
When he said X game is crap BECAUSE, you always got the explanation following.
That's OK. It's when the technical explanation doesn't follow it makes people irate. Either way Atari users shouldn't be attacking him for having an informed opinion. That's childish. Won't be gaining any new fans of either platform if they're at each other's throats.
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Old 10 September 2009, 23:57   #305
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Out of curiosity what do you think is the best 2d vertical shoot em up on the Amiga?
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Old 11 September 2009, 00:41   #306
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It drops frames but it drops frames on the 500 too from memory. I don't think I ever saw it drop four frames tho. The blitter on the STE is fast enough to mask about 1/3rd of the screen at 50 hz. Runs like a dog on an ST. Nice game on the 1200.
Frank
Believe me i played both the STe version and the Amiga version last week on real hardware just for comparison. There is a HUUUUGE difference in smoothnes when there is much going on at the same time. I'm not just saying that because i feel like making people angry at me. See a side by side comparison on real hardware and then come back and say that the STe version i smooth

The standard ST version is almost unplayable slow... The STe version is FAAR superior to that though.

Quote:
There shouldn't be a "war" in 2009 at all. I can't be the only person in the world who likes and owns both Amigas and STs. The retro gamers/coders etc should stick together and not try and alienate people from either scene. It's not as if there's new Amiga/ST users popping up every few days now.
I own and loves both machines... The Atari was my first computer experience(in 1988?) and will forever have a special place in my heart.
Then i bought an Amiga 500(1990) and i couldn't believe the difference when i first saw SOTB.
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Old 11 September 2009, 00:59   #307
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Hey Ahle2 I wondered what happened to your videos. Its a shame you had so much hatred directed toward you! It amazes me why people take things so seriously and act like you have insulted a member of their own family and even after all this time since the Amiga/ST was about! You still have those videos? its funny really because it was from a discussion I had on those videos with a person who denied the Amiga had any advantage that I originally started this thread. Personally I love all retro-computers and starting to collect quite a few.
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Old 11 September 2009, 08:37   #308
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Originally Posted by Ahle2 View Post
Believe me i played both the STe version and the Amiga version last week on real hardware just for comparison. There is a HUUUUGE difference in smoothnes when there is much going on at the same time. I'm not just saying that because i feel like making people angry at me. See a side by side comparison on real hardware and then come back and say that the STe version i smooth

The standard ST version is almost unplayable slow... The STe version is FAAR superior to that though.

I own and loves both machines... The Atari was my first computer experience(in 1988?) and will forever have a special place in my heart.
Then i bought an Amiga 500(1990) and i couldn't believe the difference when i first saw SOTB.
It's been awhile since I've seen the Amiga version but I was playing it last night on an STE. It drops frames but I didn't see it drop any more than 1. I saw it run at 50 hz with four or five enemy objects on screen on level 1.

It might be interesting to add some simple debug to hatari and see what exactly it's drawing each frame. As for the speed of the scrolling the only difference should be the number of tiles being drawn from the map each frame. Scrolling at 16 pixels per frame shouldn't be much slower than say 3.

The hardware doesn't incur any penalty for the fine scrolling offset. It works pretty much the same way it does on the Amiga except there is one base address (not per plane) and the fine scroll value is inverted.

I wonder if they're splitting the screen vertically and using the wrap method for scrolling.

Last edited by frank_b; 11 September 2009 at 08:59.
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Old 11 September 2009, 08:51   #309
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
EDIT : Ooops, yes unseen was talk about HS, not blitter, you're right ! My fault then, so no blitter at all on STE ?
Have you seen the game Roger on the STe? It's GFA basic runs at 50hz and uses the ST blitter for everything including screen scrolling. Might be a good example to illustrate why it's a useful addition to the hardware.
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Old 11 September 2009, 09:18   #310
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Peace guys. Yesterday i've spotted an Atari ST in "Friday the 13th the series", in the episode "Demonhunter" (S3E3). So, an Atari ST is good for something else than gaming.


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Old 11 September 2009, 09:30   #311
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Well, power light is off...
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Old 11 September 2009, 09:47   #312
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Battle squadron

to me it's battle squadron. Good gfx' well coded, super Muzak by Ron Klaren' 2 players mode and the gAme is well balanced
kml

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Out of curiosity what do you think is the best 2d vertical shoot em up on the Amiga?
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Old 11 September 2009, 17:19   #313
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Si-Pie said...
Hey Ahle2 I wondered what happened to your videos. Its a shame you had so much hatred directed toward you! It amazes me why people take things so seriously and act like you have insulted a member of their own family and even after all this time since the Amiga/ST was about! You still have those videos? its funny really because it was from a discussion I had on those videos with a person who denied the Amiga had any advantage that I originally started this thread. Personally I love all retro-computers and starting to collect quite a few.
I still have them.... and i can upload them to some place if you are interested.
It's waaaaaay easier to see the difference in the pictures when you look at the raw material compared to that lousy YouTube mess.

Quote:
frank_b said...
It drops frames but I didn't see it drop any more than 1
Okey go to a place near the end of level 1 where there is many platforms and at least one enemy on each platform. Start jumping around at maximum speed in all directions and at the same time shoot like a mad at everything that moves. There will be A LOT of BOBS on the screen at once and i am pretty sure that the frame rate drops bellow 16.6666 FPS.
I couldn't make the Amiga version slow nearly that much in the same place.
The Amiga version probably uses hardware sprites for the main player and some floating status bars, that might be part of the explanation.
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Old 11 September 2009, 17:38   #314
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I still have them.... and i can upload them to some place if you are interested.
I am very interested and it would be cool if you could upload them to the EAB file server (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=43633). You can use the FTP upload and give me shout when they are up, so I can move them to the file server then
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Old 11 September 2009, 17:45   #315
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Here are the pictures used in the video... plus a couple of very good looking Amiga pictures in various formats (HAM, EHB)
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg160/Ahlebrand2/


Make a slideshow of them and go back and forth between them to spot the differences.

Here is the photoshop plugin used to count the colors http://www.telegraphics.com.au/sw/fi...-1.1b4-win.zip

Last edited by Ahle2; 11 September 2009 at 18:01.
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Old 11 September 2009, 18:49   #316
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Oh thanks Ahle2 thats great.
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Old 11 September 2009, 21:44   #317
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Originally Posted by Ahle2 View Post
Okey go to a place near the end of level 1 where there is many platforms and at least one enemy on each platform. Start jumping around at maximum speed in all directions and at the same time shoot like a mad at everything that moves. There will be A LOT of BOBS on the screen at once and i am pretty sure that the frame rate drops bellow 16.6666 FPS.
I couldn't make the Amiga version slow nearly that much in the same place.
The Amiga version probably uses hardware sprites for the main player and some floating status bars, that might be part of the explanation.
Sprites would help out for sure at the expense of palette flexibility. Dump the copper list if you can and we'll have a look. I'll have a play to the end of the first level at some point this weekend on the STe and see if it does the same for me.

Frank
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Old 11 September 2009, 21:48   #318
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Well, power light is off...
How can you tell? It's under his/her's left hand

Frank
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Old 11 September 2009, 23:43   #319
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Really? I thought power light is on the right
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Old 11 September 2009, 23:58   #320
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Really? I thought power light is on the right
Nah. That's the disk drive. The power light is the bottom left of the keyboard.
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