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Old 19 September 2008, 10:25   #61
Going nowhere

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Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey View Post
No, you're right, you're missing the point too (and the rest of my post, curiously...?)

I'm sorry, but demo scene elitism or whatever has no place here, there isn't an excuse for it. End of. Any more and this thread will be locked.
I think quite a few are missing the point here.

It didn't start off as being 'elitist' in the first place, Stingray quite rightly pointed out the flaws in these intros/demos where they wouldn't correctly work on the machines they were supposed to work on, there was nothing elitist about that, merely constructive criticism.

The 'elitist' part only came into play when it was clearly obvious that the person responsible for the intros/demos didn't want to hear about how a couple of lines of code could fix them.

Sure, the topic has degenerated somewhat, but there has to be give and take.

Someone put their work up for appraisal, and it was naivety to expect everyone to roundly pat them on the back and say 'well done'.

Personally, I couldn't care less if the BITS demos/intros are hopeless and primitive, but the very least I would expect, is if an experienced coder gives them a heads up to at least ensure that their code works on all Amigas, they should have the decency to listen.

Well, thats my two cents worth.
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Old 19 September 2008, 10:48   #62
move.l #$c0ff33,throat

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Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey View Post
StingRay I swear you deliberately miss the point sometimes.
Someone is indeed missing the point here, I just wonder if it's really me... What you seem to forget, these demos were released as scene productions so they are judged as that! Where's the point to praise them like they are the best thing since sliced bread when they aren't good at all, neither from a technical nor from an artistic point of view? It would be a completely different thing if these demos would have been released here at EAB f.e. (as some sort of "hey folks, look what I've made" sort of thing), you can be 1000% sure that I would have reacted totally different then because THEN it would have been elitist to slag them off. But as said, these are SCENE productions and the BITS dudes consider themselves to be part of the scene so they know the rules!

Anyway, feel free to lock this thread, it won't make the BITS demos any better and it wouldn't make me praise them either.

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey
All involved cut it out please and take your worthless, arrogant and elitist comments elsewhere.
And how is this NOT arrogant and elitist? Who are you to judge if comments are "worthless, arrogant and elitist"? Just because you don't agree (and apparently don't understand how certain things work) doesn't give you any right to call comments worthless.

Last edited by StingRay; 19 September 2008 at 12:13. Reason: typo fixed
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Old 19 September 2008, 13:06   #63
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Let's keep scene talk in pouet and other scene forums then..

The demoscene is all about fame and competition. These days it's not as bad as in the early 90s (no fistfights between rival groups / personalities at parties any more), but the competition is still there.

If you release test routine demos, then this is the response you will get from people who expect quality. Release it "seriously" (like this appears to be) and it is an insult to the other guys who pride on quality. Don't make fun of something where other people work hard to achieve good results. If you can't code yet, learn to code and then release, that's what is expected of everyone else too. I don't see much of a statement in releasing stuff that is well behind everyone else either.. It does raise the entry threshold, but that is no different to any other competitive hobby.. You don't go into the olympics after your first long jump attempt either, you just do not qualify.

Unfortunately there is no time machine that will teleport newcomers to 1987 when people were still amazed to see colourful copperbars on their screen and nobody knew how to make use of the hardware yet. They just have to practice behind the scenes until they're ready to compete.

Anyone who's been around that community will know this and shouldn't throw a hissy fit when he gets the expected response after releasing shit. Reading this thread, it's not the OP who has a problem with the reaction given, but other forum dwellers who feel pity on the OP.

This thread doesn't really have a place in here though - this is EAB, which I believe is not primarily a demoscene hangout, even though there is some overlap, so let's just lock it and move on to EAB style topics.

Last edited by Jope; 19 September 2008 at 13:11.
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Old 19 September 2008, 14:36   #64
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Very very good point
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Old 19 September 2008, 19:42   #65
Graham Humphrey
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Right, this will be the last post on this thread (unless of course another mod decides to unlock it...)

In fairness some people have made good points here - yes, I do indeed understand that if you offered advice to someone and they didn't even bother to listen that would annoy you, of course it would. And no, I'm not part of the demo scene so I don't really understand how it works. But that is still no excuse for the comments and the attitude on this thread. As we have seen all it does is create hostility where there doesn't need to be any and we end up in the sad situation where I have to lock the thread.

As Damien and I have said, regardless of what goes on elsewhere, we don't want this sort of thing spreading to EAB. And as I also said - I never said to give things praise regardless of quality, in fact I think it'd be a sad day if this ever happened, I said you should be respectful at least, even if you don't feel the other parties involved have been as it only makes things so much worse.

If anyone has any comments/questions then please feel free to PM me.
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