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Old 19 July 2008, 15:18   #1
HideawayStudio
 
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Happy The ST-01 Project

On searching for information on ST-01 I found a posting on EAB made by Mark Wright in 2003 asking whether anyone knew what instrument was originally sampled to make the infamous ST-01 sample set. Well the short answer is several now very collectible classic pro synths of the time

I have a heck of a lot of studio gear from this era and like several others I've been curious about the origins of ST-01 but to date little info exists on the subject.

I've found it a shame that although so many rave on about the early Amiga modules and everyone knows they made use of the ST-01 sample set but very few know where these samples came from. They all have a heck of a lot of character - this character has a lot to do with the way early modules sound.

I was recently contacted by someone who had seen something I'd written on the subject who has had a very similar idea to mine which is to identify all of the synths used to make ST-01 and then attempt to make high quality equivalents of them. I recently bought the domain www.ST-01.com to do exactly that and more.

What I can say is that out of the 126 samples in ST-01 a fair amount are without doubt factory presets from the now classic Roland D50 (eg. Call, DigiHarp, Heaven, TineWave, Jetes, Outlaw, Pizza, Nightmare) - a very characteristic sounding synth. There are also samples taken from the Roland Juno106 (Pingbells), the Yamaha DX21 (Mono Bass), the Casio CZ (SineCZ) series and possibly the Korg Poly-800.

The website is not up yet but the idea will be to have an interactive table containing original sample name, original sample, sample source and full preset number/name, a HQ remake and demo of it in use along with any interesting notes. I also intend to write sections on the featured synths along with demos of them in action. I hope to post some of my earlier studio remakes of classic Amiga tracks on this site. I am also hoping I can eventally interview the original creators.

Feel free to email me if you are interested in helping out.

Dan@hideawaystudio.co.uk

Last edited by HideawayStudio; 29 July 2008 at 00:56.
 
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Old 19 July 2008, 15:24   #2
Shoonay
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hello & welcome to eab HS!
cool news, keep us up to date
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Old 19 July 2008, 22:02   #3
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Sounds interesting I will be keeping an eye on the website.

I used to have a casio CZ101. It was a nice synth but a bugger to program. I still have my Korg ex-800 (a desktop version of the poly 800).

Anyway, Good luck with the project
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Old 20 July 2008, 08:08   #4
Minuous
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Quality of those samples was fine, why do you want to resample them?
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Old 20 July 2008, 09:29   #5
HideawayStudio
 
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Thumbs up Resampling ST-01

You are absolutely right - the original sound set sounded great.

I wanted to go beyond just emulating the originals as I think many will be surprised how different the original sources will sound. This is because the ST-01 samples were only snapshots of what were responsive complex synth patches. This is will actually make emulating the original sound very difficult in some cases as a single key will have to be played in the same manner as the original producer ie. same velocity, note length and FX processing.

The main object is to identify the original sources - this has become a bit of an obsession for me as synths built around the 1985 to 1988 era were very different to what we see now - The Roland D50 is posivitely oozing with character due to its low bit resolution, filters and use of PWM. These characteristics are almost impossible to emulate in a soft synth as the noise and aliasing from the old hardware becomes part of the sound. This is why, for example, 12 bit samplers such as the AKAI S950 are still favoured in making some types of music.

It's this character that made a lot of Amiga music so cool. Much the same is true for the C64's SID generated music as it too had a certain "sound" - quite unlike the horrible FM generated yuck that PCs were eminating a few years later from their Sound Blasters.
 
Old 20 July 2008, 19:04   #6
HideawayStudio
 
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Todays Progress Report

After spending far too long downloading old Yamaha manuals and comparing patch names with the ST-01 names I've come to the conclusion that my original guess that one of the sources was Yamaha DX11 is wrong. The DX11 came out in 1988 and the ST-01 sample set was released in June 1987 - D'oh! I was right that it was a 4OP FM synth...

As it happens the DX27, DX100, DX21 and TX81Z all share similar sound sets and were all released before ST-01. On closer inspection the DX21's factory sounds bare most resemblence to some of the ST-01 sample names. I downloaded the DX21s factory sounds into my TX81Z via the most precarious of homemade tape interface leads via mp3! (yes it does work! - even with Spectrum games) Hey presto - there are MonoBass and HeiferBell without doubt MonoBass sounds just fantastic on the real thing!

So far the Roland D50 is still in the lead with the most sounds being used for ST-01.

So far I've identified 30/128 sample sources and have leads on at least another 20.

The Korg sounds are still a mystery to me - they may be Poly-800 or DW8000.

Precisely which CASIO CZ was sampled is also still a mystery.

Answers on a post card
 
Old 20 July 2008, 23:22   #7
Sune Salminen
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Great idea. Interesting project!

I'll be following your progress on this.

Which synth did "rubberbass" come from?
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Old 21 July 2008, 00:34   #8
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ST-01: Check progress at Remix64

RubberBass is almost certainly from the Yamaha DX-27. Today I've discovered a load more sounds from the DX-27, Roland Juno-106 and Korg Poly-800.

I have a similar thread going on at Remix64 and since It's mainly for musicians it seems more the right place for this topic to be.

If you want to check on progress prior to the website www.st-01.com coming online please see:

http://www.remix64.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5708

Cheers

Dan.
 
Old 21 July 2008, 11:00   #9
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Wow, nice project HideawayStudio! I really like the idea of finding out where these sounds originally came from.
Will check out you site when it's up.
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Old 21 July 2008, 11:50   #10
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Very nice project! Hope you will continue until ST-XX
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Old 21 July 2008, 14:25   #11
Photon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
Quality of those samples was fine, why do you want to resample them?
Yep, they were very well sampled, only recording them as 44-96KHz .wav is a cool idea

Just wanted to say, I have a Juno! Must get a D50 too then.

As far as the table is concerned, if you want it simple and a bit more time consuming to change it, make a simple html page from a table in Front Page or whatever, and either just put it up or put it as one page of a site made with CMS like Joomla or whatever.

Best option would be a database + a simple php script to add a new row and render the html.
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Old 21 July 2008, 20:25   #12
HideawayStudio
 
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ST-01 Website

Thanks for all the encouragement - I've had a lot of positive reactions to this one. In fact I'm really surprised no one seems to have done this before - despite loads of searching on the net I can't find anything similar.

Like yourself I too have a Juno106 - a gorgeous synth - I've been restoring it over the last year to its former glory - now running on all 6 oscillators and looks great now all the broken keys have been replaced.

I'm the proud owner of around 25 classic synths - including Roland D50 in the rackmounted D550 guise. The only sod with looking after this lot (around 50U of rackmount space) is keeping the EL LCD backlights working - last year I replaced 7 of them due to them being so dim they were useless.

The website is being put together by Jim (alk) who is producing the framework together in php and SQL.

Cheers

Dan.
 
Old 21 July 2008, 22:03   #13
HideawayStudio
 
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FM based Samples in ST-01

... OK there's now a fair amount of evidence that the Yamaha 4OP FM Synth used as a source for several of the ST-01 samples is the DX-21 which is known for it's superb bass patches - Solid Bass (later known as Lately Bass) is found on a HUGE number of dance tracks. Shame the percussion wasn't Roland 808 / 909 - now that would be easy to identify!

Don't let anyone ever tell you FM is Sh*t or old hat - as ever it's the way you use it. Synths are not like PCs - it doesn't matter if its 3 weeks old or 30 years old - it just has to sound good.

 
Old 22 July 2008, 21:52   #14
HideawayStudio
 
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ST-01: The Korg Poly-800 Mystery

Hello all... Now we're making good progress homing in on the synths used to make ST-01 I keep finding myself coming back to the Korg Poly-800 as the problem is that several seem to think some of it's presets were used and yet after very carefully listening to the factory set several times now I not at all convinced. It's often possible with very careful listening to sometimes get a feel for the overall sound of a non sample based synth and this is the issue - I can't hear any characteristics of the Poly-800 in any of the suspected Korg originated ST-01 samples. So here's a question - if any of you are convinced otherwise can you give me some proof in terms of preset names vs ST-01 samples and I will check it out. There are several references to Korg in ST-01 I just have a gut feeling it's another (definitely analog!) Korg of the era - eg: MonoPoly or DW6000 or DW8000??

The presets Dangerous and strings 1 & 6 are of particular interest as they sound so odd - I actually wonder if at least a couple of the ST-01 samples (strings 6?) are derived from the Fairlight. - again any clues?

It's still looking like Roland D50 and Yamaha DX21 are the main culprits


Dan.
 
Old 28 July 2008, 20:17   #15
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This is a very cool project... I have a lot of AKAI Sample CD's of classic synths.. I'm gonna check them and see if I can recognize anything.
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Old 29 July 2008, 00:50   #16
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ST-01: The First Batch of 99% Identified Synth Presets...

Here is a quick progress report.....

After a couple of weeks searching through countless old synth manuals and listening to literally thousands of classic synth presets in the studio from instruments released up to no later than June 1987 (ST-01 was released on 30-06-1987) I have 99% identified 40/126 sample sources: (no percussion as yet)

The likely culprits look are: (follow link if you want to know more about them)

Roland D50 - http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/d50.shtml
Roland Juno106 - http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/juno106.shtml
Yamaha DX21 - http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx21.shtml
CASIO CZ101 - http://www.vintagesynth.com/casio/cz101.shtml
Korg Poly800 - http://www.vintagesynth.com/poly800.shtml

Update on 99% Positive Identified ST-01 Sample Sources:

ST-01 Sample: Source Synth: Source Preset & Name:
===================================================================
Call ROLAND D50 I-16 Living Calliope
DigDug YAMAHA DX21 G13 P1 Solid Bass (aka Lately Bass)
DigiHarp ROLAND D50 I-12 Metal Harp
DXBass YAMAHA DX21 G13 P1 Solid Bass (aka Lately Bass)
DxTom YAMAHA DX21 G9 P1 Electro Tom
FaeryTale CASIO CZ-101 Fairytail
FunkBass YAMAHA DX21 G13 P6 Elec Bass
Heaven ROLAND D50 I-61 Staccato Heaven
HeavySynth YAMAHA DX21 G10 P1 Heavy Synth
Heifer YAMAHA DX21 G9 P8 Heifer Bell
Hooman ROLAND D50 C-67 Choir
Horns YAMAHA DX21 G5 P1 Horns
JahrMarkt2 ROLAND D50 C-12 Metal Harp
Jetes ROLAND D50 I-54 Jete Strings
Koto YAMAHA DX21 G6 P7 Kotokoto
Licks ROLAND D50 I-85 Bones
Mechanic1 ROLAND D50 I-81 Intruder FX
MetalKeys YAMAHA DX21 G7 P4 Metal Keys
MonoBass YAMAHA DX21 G13 P4 Mono Bass
MuteClav YAMAHA DX21 G11 P5 Mute Clav
Nice ROLAND JUNO106 A33 Xylophone
NightMare ROLAND D50 I-71 Nightmare
Outlaw ROLAND D50 I-21 DigitalNativeDance
PingBells ROLAND JUNO106 B77 Pingbell
Pizza ROLAND D50 I-44 Pizzagogo
PolySynth ROLAND D50 I-55 Stereo Polysynth
PopBass YAMAHA DX21 G13 P1 Solid Bass
RichString YAMAHA DX21 G4 P6 Richstring
RingPiano ROLAND D50 I-78 Pianissimo
Shamus ROLAND D50 I-41 Shamus Theme
SixTease YAMAHA DX21 G3 P6 <6 Tease>
SlapBass ROLAND D50 I-83 Synth Bass
Stabs ROLAND D50 I-25 Harpsichord Stabs
Steinway YAMAHA DX21 G1 P1 Deep Grand
Strings7 ROLAND D50 I-A1 Legato Strings
SynClaves YAMAHA DX21 G9 P3 Breakin
SyntheBass YAMAHA DX21 G13 P3 Synthe Bass
TineWave ROLAND D50 I-56 Tine Wave
Touch ROLAND D50 I-16 Living Calliope
Voices ROLAND D50 I-17: D50 Voices

All of the above were clearly based on original factory synth presets.

Some of the Amiga samples have been made using delays and
tailing of the original source - eg. Call

NB: Some ST-01 samples appear to be transposed by 1 octave and given
another name - hence the reason why some synth presets appear
more than once. Last Update: 27/07/08 D.Wilson.

I have leads on another 30 or so samples sources, the percussion is proving very difficult and there are several sounds I'm clueless on at the mo:

Aligator,AnalogString,Asia,Breath,Celeste,
Chink,Cinema,DeepBass,Detune,EPiano,
ExBells,FilterBass,FunBass,Gato,Great,
HallBrass,JahrMarkt1,Klickorgan,Leader,
Magic,MonsterBass,Organ,PanFlute,Perco,
Pulse,RoomBrass,SoftBass,
Soundtrack,Squares,Strange,Strings1,
Strings2,Strings3,Strings4,Strings5,
Strings7,Strings8,Sweep,SyntheBass,
SynthPiano,TechBass,WabberString,
WowBass.

Thats all for now.... Cheers from Dan at HideawayStudio dot com.
 
Old 29 July 2008, 19:54   #17
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Smash1+2 were definitely on the DX100. If they're not on the DX21, you might want to get hold of a DX100 and check out its presets.
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