Removing yellowing from Amigas with peroxide

[Turran]

Wrote this in another thread.

I found 12% here in Sweden if anyone is interested. 170SKR (19€) for 1 liter which is a bit more then you would want to pay, but it already comes in a thick mixture, ready to be put on the plastics (found that out when I got the bottle. Happy surprise) =)

http://www.baressoshop.se/products/V...etCurrencyId=1

Yes, they ship with DHL or pick it up from the stores in Stockholm etc. Order 3 bottles and shipping is free

Edit: Seems that product is gone. Use this one
http://www.baressoshop.se/products/K...xid-12%25.html

Or just search for magicolor at www.baressoshop.se if it disappears again

[Mr B]

If my memory is right, then your still able to buy 17.5% stuff at "any" painter supplies shop. the old stuff, 30-35%, isn't as available anymore, but for our purpose, it doesn't really matter.
B!

[seb132]

@Turran: we have the same sort of 12% gel here in Australia and I just did yesterday a couple of A600, some Overdrive HDD enclosures, an old LCD monitor which was more yellow than white and an Amiga tank mouse and the result was simply perfect. Amazing!

I've not even used 1 Liter and just added a tea spoon of Oxy activator (dilluted it a bit of warm water otherwise you can't mix it with the peroxyde gel).

5 hours on the winter Australia sun did the job.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by seb132

@Turran: we have the same sort of 12% gel here in Australia and I just did yesterday a couple of A600, some Overdrive HDD enclosures, an old LCD monitor which was more yellow than white and an Amiga tank mouse and the result was simply perfect. Amazing!

I've not even used 1 Liter and just added a tea spoon of Oxy activator (dilluted it a bit of warm water otherwise you can't mix it with the peroxyde gel).

5 hours on the winter Australia sun did the job.

Try doing one without the oxy, should work just as good

[seb132]

Correction: everything now looks fantastic except the keyboard which still shows traces of yellow... hard to ensure UV all around keys, I guess...

Kipper2k: is there a "risk" to use the oxy ?

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by seb132

Correction: everuthing looks fantastic except the keyboard which still shows traces of yellow... hard to ensure UV all around keys, I guess...

Kipper2k: is there a "risk" to use the oxy ?

nope, i jut used the 12% developer cream by itself and it worked fine.

[Turran]

seb132: Interesting. I was just out trying it on. I did not dilute the oxy powder first so I had to really mix it for 5 minutes. Its foaming up nicely so I guess that did the trick.

Note that before I started, I ran it all in the washingmachine at the lowest temperature to get rid of any fat and dirt. Just remember to unscrew the backplate and remove the green membrane from the keyboard first =)

Edit: You do not need the oxy, no. but as far as I know, it speeds up the process even more. In my case it turned out to be great since the mixture foamed up, making sure that every inch of the keyboard got hit with the mixture, even more so since I used plastic wrap which might otherwise have "protected" certain surfaces, like the edges.

I did not have any good tray to put it in so I used household plastic to prevent it from drying out (used up the whole roll. Someone will be mad tonight =) ).

Thanks for the "UV light all around" tip. I'll make sure to spin them around during the day.

The images does not give the yellowing the honor it deserves when out in the sun. The top A1200 keyboard is actually the most yellow keyboard I've gotten my hands on so far.

I'll post more when finished.









Edit: 2-3 hours in.. Foaming nicely. Had to prick a hole in it so it does not explode =)



Complete! 6 or so hours in the sun, turning the whole table a little bit every hour so the sun would hit every side equally much, its a striking success! The A1200 keyboard COULD use another treatment to get it as white as the A600 turned out, but that was pretty much expected as it was very yellow.
I could probably have left it for another hour or so, but almost all the bubbles were gone and the plastic had fallen back on the keyboard again so I guessed the liquid was out of juice (no pun intended) anyway.







Comparison shots with the untreated bottom which was in the exact same color before.





Best part is that I still have 8 DL (0.8 litres) left of the H202, but more amigas need love so..

Edit: The Magicolor is a bit hard to rinse off. Washed the keyboards 3 times now and still some pop out. Next batch will probably go in the dishwasher after I'm done...

[sneeker]

Ive been using just plain old bblonde peroxide cream, nice sunny day, ive done the keyboard, top housing and the trapdoor of my A1200, the keyboard and top are still outside, but Ive brought the trapdoor in after an hour and a half to see if its working, the amiga seemed quite white when I started, but there is a differance.

Top housing and keyboard are outside drying after washing everything off about 1/2 hour ago.. spent nearly 2 hours in the sun.

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by sneeker

Ive been using just plain old bblonde peroxide cream, nice sunny day, ive done the keyboard, top housing and the trapdoor of my A1200, the keyboard and top are still outside, but Ive brought the trapdoor in after an hour and a half to see if its working, the amiga seemed quite white when I started, but there is a differance.

Top housing and keyboard are outside drying after washing everything off about 1/2 hour ago.. spent nearly 2 hours in the sun.

Looks nice.. so you get Sunshine in Manchester? I thought the city only had one climate? Rain with grey clouds??

[mancity]

We've had clear blue skies here in Manchester for about a week now!

I dont know what to do with myself, I think it's the apocolypse!

[seb132]

UV will go through clouds anyway guys...

Turran: nice job with your keyboards. I have prefered to remove all keys from mine, hence why it was hard to turn all keys all day one by one...

If I were you I wouldn't use the diswasher except if you have specific rince program. Hot water could damage (melt?) the Amigas perhaps, no?

My peroxyde gel was very easy to wash as it is very compatible with water and will dissolve immediately: you can feel the plastic gets "dry from peroxyde" when you rince it - I don't know how to explain but your skin will feel it.

See below pictures of my retr0bright session (one more retr0bright party to come today as the weather is perfect!)

[mancity]

When I removed all the keys from my Amiga to Retr0Bright them, I somehow broke the keyboard and had to buy a new one. Not a massive issue to me really because I bought a brand new, non-yellowed one, but I really do not know how I managed to break the keyboard.

I was extremely careful when removing the ribbon cable from the Amiga and also when individually removing the keys.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to apply that gel to the whole keyboard and do it that way because surely the stuff would get inside the keys and get to the springs which would maybe eventually rust as a result?

[roy bates]

the key springs start rusting near anough straight away if you get h202 on them because it an oxidiser.

[Turran]

Haven't had any problems with rust from my last session. When I read this, I plopped one of the keys off to check and the spring is fine. From what I see from the other ones, they look fine too. Guess it will start to rust soon =)

Oh, my dishwasher has a "rinse" mode with 35-40c water. I use that before and after nowadays.

One thing I have not found yet is a good wax or similar to spray them with afterwards. I was thinking about armourall or turtlewax for cars, but turtlewax was too thick and you'd have to do each key individually (urk). If I remember correctly though, armorall is a spray so have to try and get me a bottle.

[seb132]

I'm not very confident with the look and feel coming wax or lacquer and I've simply decided not to use any to prevent from re-yellowing.

As yellowing is a reversible process thanks to retr0bright, I will treat my Amigas each time I consider they became too yellow... I prefer this rather than being disapointed by a painting process which far less reversible.

[rampartsagain]

had to buy 5 jars of 30 percent on a near medical store disassemble all low moderate pre heat if too high keys melt or worse get white burned

[Batoussai]

Is it possible to use CMC as gelling agent with retr0bright?

[rkauer]

Naive question: what's CMC?

[johnim]

CMC-FH9 sodium carboxymethyl cellulose

[Merlin]

Yeah, it should work as a thickener; most starchy or cellulosic polymers will work. Wallpaper paste is probably the most readily available to Joe Public.

[ubermick]

Couldn't find anything above 3% H2O2 for love nor money locally in California, not even the much vaunted Urine Rescue (!) at the pet shops. What I DID find though, was that if you have a hydroponic gardening shop around, you can get this stuff:

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/hy...-peroxide.html

I couldn't find an MSDS on it, but the product page claims it's 29% H2O2, and at about $9 a litre is comparatively inexpensive.

Questions about the bblonde type stuff: the "40" rated bottles of hair goop are in reality just 12% peroxide? And while this can be used straight out of the bottle in place of the retr0brite gel, I'm assuming it can be mixed with a little bit of water to make a bath? (At which point, does it still need a pinch of Oxy?)

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by ubermick

Couldn't find anything above 3% H2O2 for love nor money locally in California, not even the much vaunted Urine Rescue (!) at the pet shops. What I DID find though, was that if you have a hydroponic gardening shop around, you can get this stuff:

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/hy...-peroxide.html

I couldn't find an MSDS on it, but the product page claims it's 29% H2O2, and at about $9 a litre is comparatively inexpensive.

Questions about the bblonde type stuff: the "40" rated bottles of hair goop are in reality just 12% peroxide? And while this can be used straight out of the bottle in place of the retr0brite gel, I'm assuming it can be mixed with a little bit of water to make a bath? (At which point, does it still need a pinch of Oxy?)

The "40" rated creme developer is 12% peroxide and it works fine by itself, I've done about 10 Amigas so far and very happy with it.

[rkauer]

Check the nearest Wikipedia about VOLUMES vs concentration. 40 volumes is around 12%.

30 Volumes are around 9%, but that's not a linear equation. 50% concentration is 200 volumes.

[Turran]

One thing I learned about doing the whole keyboard (without membrane of course) instead of the individual white keys is ... don't do it =)

While the springs are still fine, the buttons that are supposed to be grey look a bit .. dull. Not really noticeable unless you place an untreated one next to it, but still.

[rampartsagain]

Originally Posted by Turran

One thing I learned about doing the whole keyboard (without membrane of course) instead of the individual white keys is ... don't do it =)

While the springs are still fine, the buttons that are supposed to be grey look a bit .. dull. Not really noticeable unless you place an untreated one next to it, but still.

the A keys melt very easy like burned white.
that sucks

[Methanoid]

A question for experienced Retrobrighters please

I'm looking to buy some of the peroxide cream on eBay (since my BBlonde seems to have been "claimed" by one of the ladies in the house!!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290731179359 & http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180798849682

1) If I leave these in the sun to "cook" on my patio. Do I need to wash them off with water down the sink or would rinsing them on the patio kill my garden with toxic washings?

2) What percentage would people recommend? Seems you can get 6%-9-12-15-18% mixes

3) Are keys best done individually? With cream or soaked in a bottle? If so, what solution best?

4) How much would I likely need? My list of stuff to do:

A complete A1200 inc keyboard keys, PSU, Mouse
A complete A500 & bits
Two spare Power Bricks
Plus probably an A600 and an Atari STE if I can find them cheap.

Thanks guys! Promise to do some pics!

[Turran]

Originally Posted by Methanoid

A question for experienced Retrobrighters please

1) If I leave these in the sun to "cook" on my patio. Do I need to wash them off with water down the sink or would rinsing them on the patio kill my garden with toxic washings?

No, you can rinse it off in the garden. From what I've read, H202 is excellent in not too high concentration since it contains lots of oxygen (duh). Its sold as fertilizer as well to give the roots a boost. I even washed my pre-gelled 12% cream in the roses and they are still doing well (dont tell my wife).
Edit: See post by ubermick a few above mine and you'll see a link where they sell it as fertilizer.

2) What percentage would people recommend? Seems you can get 6%-9-12-15-18% mixes

I've only ever used 12%, but the higher concentration, the faster it gets done, or at least as far I've seen in this thread.

I've read people using 3% and leaving it in the bathtub for a week to get the whiteness they needed.
I've read people using 40% and leaving it the bathtub for a 8 hours.

Basically, it does not matter what percentage you use. The UV light (from a bulb or sun) speeds the process up. Oxy powder speeds it up more.

3) Are keys best done individually? With cream or soaked in a bottle? If so, what solution best?

I only ever did the whole keyboards. Remove all the screws in the bottom plate and remove the plate and membrane. For me, seemed like the easiest route. After a few weeks now though, I've changed my mind. There are two problems with doing the whole keyboard.
1: The springs will rust faster (since its metal). I've not noticed this on mine though and I've checked frequently.
2: The grey keys that are supposed to be gray are not so gray anymore compared to an untreated keyboard.

Whatever method you chose, remember to wipe the water from the keys when done since if you just leave them to dry, like I did, the keys are kind of discolored from the dried water. This goes for the case as well. Does not have to be perfectly dry, just dont leave any puddles of water in any visible parts.

Soaked in a bottle is not recommended since you'll have a hard time keeping them the right way up. They tend to flip over and retrobrighting the bottom of they keys, while cool, is pretty useless =)

I dont think you need to do anything with the two items you've listed as they are listed as "cream" already. You can kickstart the process with a little oxy powder (any cleaning detergent that says "Oxy Power !!!" on them basically.) I used about 1-2 dl of H202 (cream) and mixed in a tiny teaspoon of oxy powder before applying it to the plastics. If you use too much, it will start to foam quite a lot after about an hour in the sun (as you can see on my pictures earlier in this thread). Use too little and it has little effect. If you plan to mix it with Oxy, you'll have to mix it around for a few minutes with a spoon or something since they do not blend well. Someone also diluted the oxy in a bit of hot water first to make it blend better, but my cream is already on the edge of being "too runny" so I do not do that. You can also skip the oxy all together as it just speeds things up a bit.

4) How much would I likely need? My list of stuff to do:

Hard to say exactly. I used 12% gel. Bought 1 liter of it and i've done
2 complete Amiga 1200
1 Amiga 600
2 mice
2 external floppy drives
And I've got about 7 dl left.. Unless you plan to soak the parts in it, you do not need much.

Some general tips I've learned...
Wash all the plastics first. Dirt makes for a bad retrobright since the h202 does not reach the plastic. I wash everything in the washing machine set to "rinse" which is about 30c water. I forgot once and had the normal program on (40-55c) and nothing bad happened.

Wear gloves. Theres a reason the females are wearing gloves when they use this stuff in their hair. No worries if you get the 12% on your hands, just wash it off rather quickly. You do not want the 30-40% on you, or so I've told.

If you plan to soak it or need to mix a gel yourself, wear glasses. Get it in your eye and good bye vision.

If you leave it out in the sun and you do not live near the equator, rotate the parts a bit so all sides get an equal amount. I left my peices on a table for 6 hours and rotated the whole table about every hour. A bit excessive perhaps. UV penetrates clouds nicely, so do not fret if the sun hides for a while.


Hope that answers some questions from a semi-noob =)

[seb132]

+1 for all replies from Turran !

[Methanoid]

Thanks guys

Is there a consensus yet on varnishing to seal it all in again or not?

This satin looks quite suitable to me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180881329592

[seb132]

Personally I prefer not to varnish.

As I said, retr0bright is reversible, so I will retr0bright any time it's needed. After all the first time I had to do it was 19 years after I bought my A600, so I can wait until next time.

What I noticed is well stored the Amigas don't yellow. But each time a storage company had to keep my stuff for many months between 2 of my moves, I found some of them very yellow...

[Turran]

I was also looking for locally available sealants, but could not find anything that was invisible and did not alter the feel of the plastic. Tried lots of car products and wax but .. no. I'm with seb132 on this one. Its fun to retr0bright, so why not do it again? Something to look forward to in another 20 years.

[magge]

Originally Posted by seb132

What I noticed is well stored the Amigas don't yellow. But each time a storage company had to keep my stuff for many months between 2 of my moves, I found some of them very yellow...

Maybe they take them out and use them for heavy gaming over the months they have them

[johnim]

just for info guys bblonde has changed bottle design

[Methanoid]

Your 75ml 12% is puny compared to the power and size of my 1000ml 18%.... Dissolves all known garden plants!!

[johnim]

its not the size its how you use it

and £1.53 from boots chemist

[Methanoid]

Yeah mate but FEEL that width of bottle!!

I think 18% works better with our lack of sun in the UK

[johnim]

yea proberly i need to give my 1200 another coat 2moz with all the patchy weather today

[ViewSonic]

Use chemistry to remove the yellow from old plastic. [Not Retr0bright]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J4yF3OpYZQ

A different way of doing it.

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by ViewSonic

Use chemistry to remove the yellow from old plastic. [Not Retr0bright]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J4yF3OpYZQ

A different way of doing it.

Interesting but not exactly user friendly (unfortunately) even if it is a lot faster. Not a great application for a whole computer case but if you were a dealer in old computers I'd imagine this would be the way to max your profits!

[johnim]

leave in too long and shatters like glass