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Old 18 May 2008, 00:59   #101
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I really dont understand what he is trying to say. He doesn't really say that he thinks the torrent will affect sales exactly but seems to say that he is so annoyed at the lack of respect of the person who scanned the book that he is willing to cut off his nose to spite his face by not publishing the book. Really sad.
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Old 18 May 2008, 01:16   #102
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Sounds to me like he knows who made the torrent. And what he wants to tell us with this statement i still don't know. MAybe he didn't get the books ready and seeks an excuse? Else i can't image what it means since he knew that only a limited number of people would by the book. I think now much more people would by it than before.
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Old 18 May 2008, 04:45   #103
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at this point, who cares? :|
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Old 18 May 2008, 13:52   #104
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well... maybe it will eventually end up on the Amiga Books That Weren't website
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Old 18 May 2008, 13:55   #105
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Was the book actually finished or has Ralph simply run out of steam and motivation for the project and instead of saying that cooked up this trash (and maybe posted the torrent himself!!)

Anything is possible
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Old 18 May 2008, 15:13   #106
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sounds it
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Old 18 May 2008, 16:02   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco pedrana View Post
at this point, who cares? :|
Well the petition to get the newly revised Amiga Guru Book printed has already got around 80 signatures and has only been running for about a day, so plenty of people care.

I think we will soon be able to show interest for the book is just as strong as when the announcement of the print run was first made (in 2007 IIRC). AFAIK there were 169 e-mails sent to express an interest in the print run back in 2007, so if the momentum for the petition carries on the way it has been we will be able to show that the existence of a torrent version of the book hasn't negatively affected the potential success of a print run.

Please sign the petition if you haven't done so already and want to see the newly revised Amiga Guru Book published. Thank you.
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Old 18 May 2008, 16:26   #108
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naaa, thank you, i wasn't interested in the book in the irst place, but that's not what i meant: i meant that after reading those nonsensical explanations (i would have prefered a simple "i've changed my mind, because"), to keep going on this discussion it's just pointless imho.
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Old 18 May 2008, 17:09   #109
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Originally Posted by marco pedrana View Post
naaa, thank you, i wasn't interested in the book in the irst place, but that's not what i meant: i meant that after reading those nonsensical explanations (i would have prefered a simple "i've changed my mind, because"), to keep going on this discussion it's just pointless imho.
Weren't interested in the book in the first place? That's fair enough.

The reasons behind Ralph's decision seem pretty clear to me:
1. Feeling disrespected through someone releasing a torrent just before the new print run was about to begin.
2. The impression that the torrent now means the project is financially no longer viable.

We can't do anything about point 1, but point 2 can be shown to be false if we can show interest in purchasing the book is just as strong as the time before the torrent, which is the purpose of the petition. If we get over 169 signatures we show the print run can could still go ahead, though Ralph may need to realise that the torrent creation wasn't the act of a member of the honest Amiga user majority to put point 1 behind him.
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Old 18 May 2008, 17:31   #110
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Henry, i read the reasons expressed in Ralph' letter differently, and frankly that's not even the point, as one author is entitled to publish his work however he wants.

if you guys convince him to print it basing on your petition, well, all the better for you.
the rest it doesn't matter much, just, with the book in the work since an year ago (and also) this looks to me like a silly ping pong game.
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Old 18 May 2008, 17:45   #111
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also) this looks to me like a silly ping pong game.
Oh, that forget complete :/

the OS 3.9 book are cancel. we get under 20 Users where like have the book.
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Old 18 May 2008, 18:44   #112
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Henry, i read the reasons expressed in Ralph' letter differently
That's fine, of course we are both entitled to our own interpretation. How did you interpret the meaning of Ralph's e-mail?

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and frankly that's not even the point, as one author is entitled to publish his work however he wants.
Yes, but let's make sure he's basing his decision on facts rather than a perceived lack of interest and respect, both of which he has in my opinion.

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if you guys convince him to print it basing on your petition, well, all the better for you.
I'm glad you're supportive in principal.
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Old 18 May 2008, 19:23   #113
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How did you interpret the meaning of Ralph's e-mail?
i prefer not to add to the negativity more here, briefly i just think that AS

the decision not to debase his work (that would be anyway already available) by making it public by other means than print - and therefore by no means at all, is not in the interest of reaching a large and layered readers, in opposition to his declared intentions

THEN either only the financial reasons are the cause, and he claims that they are not, or he is offended by the action of a one and then he decide to punish all his readers, and that's nonsensical.
As i don't assume anyone being so silly to do that, then i suppose that he simply got disaffected or whatever. easy exit: i saw other half- commercial only publications, born as works of passion for a subject, being canned because at a point the work involved is too much for the repay, so i don't judge him badly, only i rest my case that that explanation has little sense.

i'm ok if we disagree and i sincerely hope that all the people waiting for the book will get it in the end.
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Old 19 May 2008, 00:54   #114
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Signed the petition. Maybe i'd get a programming mood swing on with this book (if it EVER gets released)!

EDIT:
AndreasM, you should sign the petition also...
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Old 19 May 2008, 03:41   #115
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then i suppose that he simply got disaffected or whatever. easy exit: i saw other half- commercial only publications, born as works of passion for a subject, being canned because at a point the work involved is too much for the repay
Whilst that would be quite plausible in other circumstances, I don't know if it fits here. Even if Ralph didn't complete the additions to the book that he is implying are already done, then Amiga users would probably settle for a reprint of the first edition of the book, which would require little/no extra work on his part at all.

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i'm ok if we disagree and i sincerely hope that all the people waiting for the book will get it in the end.
Absolutely, I'm okay if we disagree too. I respect your maturity in dealing with other peoples views.

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Signed the petition. Maybe i'd get a programming mood swing on with this book (if it EVER gets released)!
Nice one Bamiga2002! I'm not much of a programmer either but the Guru Book seems like the most complete Amiga programming source in existence (from other peoples accounts) so I'm interested to see what it covers and in how much depth (and hopefully learn a thing or two from it!). Does anyone with a 1st edition Amiga Guru Book think it is accessible for beginner/intermediate programmers?

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EDIT:
AndreasM, you should sign the petition also...
Woah, steady on there! Whilst I'm pretty sure AndreasM would like to see the newly revised book get published, he's already shown his support in other ways. In fact I doubt the possibility of a reprint would have come about if it wasn't for AndreasM's help. Having said that, of course he is welcome to sign the petition too if he wishes.
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Old 19 May 2008, 05:39   #116
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It seems to me that Mr Babel, and to a lesser extent Andreas, are being quite petulant.

If the revised edition is basically complete, as claimed, and will never be sold, then what would be the harm in releasing this as a free download? You could put it on the Amiga Future website and/or cover CD, you would get more visitors to your site, more purchases of your magazine, and in general more support and gratitude from the Amiga community.

To whine in this manner about the actions of one or two people and then refuse to release these materials seems childish, and will definitely hurt the Amiga community. It is not as though there was ever much good OS3.x programming documentation from Commodore, esp. regarding AmigaDOS, so this is just hurting the Amiga and makes it more likely that developers such as myself will leave the platform.

167 committed buyers who would bother emailing about a book that they cannot buy is likely to translate into well in excess of 500 sales, considering that most people would not commit to buying something of which the quality is unknown.

If you give a damn about the Amiga then you will either sell or give away the book (hardcopy or softcopy is not really important). It's a chance to put your money where your mouth is. The Amiga community is watching.

We were considering a subscription to your magazine, (even though for some reason you hardly ever review any of our software) but we will take a wait and see approach.

And by the way it is silly to say you do things for free when you are trying to flog something for money, namely, your magazine. Try writing open source software and then giving it away as we do, and not selling anything, and then I will believe that you do things for free.

Last edited by Minuous; 19 May 2008 at 05:47.
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Old 19 May 2008, 06:09   #117
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well, the best answer to that guy OCR ing the old print is to offer the new version free for download. That will put his effort and hours futile and I'm sure he'll feel like a sucker. And open a paypal donation page to have people express their graditude. I'ld definitely donate 10$ if the book was free for download.
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Old 19 May 2008, 11:06   #118
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Quote:
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Woah, steady on there! Whilst I'm pretty sure AndreasM would like to see the newly revised book get published, he's already shown his support in other ways...
Yeah i know, but one more signer can only help the cause, right?
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Old 19 May 2008, 11:11   #119
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Yeah i know, but one more signer can only help the cause, right?
but when to many user sign, but dont really buy the book, that damage all future petition like this for other projects.
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Old 19 May 2008, 11:16   #120
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You're right about that. If you're not going to buy it, leave the petition unsigned. Put no pre-order doesn't mean you won't buy it later.

129 signatures already
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