Magic Pockets remake - work started

[jotd]

Hi,

I'm starting a Magic Pockets remake written in C++ / SDL

Not much to see now, but this little intro:

http://jotd.free.fr/magic_pockets/MagicPocketsIntro.zip

[musojon74]

excellent! that looks like a cool project!

[bippym]

Looking good

[Galahad/FLT]

I like your enthusiasm Jeff, but i personally think Magic Pockets is the weakest game the Bitmaps ever did.

[Hungry Horace]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I like your enthusiasm Jeff, but i personally think Magic Pockets is the weakest game the Bitmaps ever did.

nothing could be as bad as the eyesore of Chaos Engine 2.

[jotd]

I agree that Magic Pockets is not the best of the Bros games, but 1) Chaos Engine 2 sucks hard!!!! and 2) I still like it very much.

I'd like to remake Chaos Engine too, but it seems harder to do, and I don't have the graphics fully ripped yet. Cadaver would rule too.

The MP remake will be an unextended remake, not like Gods: I'm not planning to create new levels, etc...
It's also for me the opportunity to practise C++ with SDL. I've got everything: graphics, levels, and a big experience from the Gods remake.
I hope I can complete the remake fast enough, and easily... Let's see.

[s2325]

I want bicycle racing as separate game!

[bLAZER]

Nice... good that you started with the intro, since that's the most important part of the game

[bippym]

yeah nice... just need to get it speeded up so it is in sync

[jotd]

Originally Posted by bLAZER

Nice... good that you started with the intro, since that's the most important part of the game

That's what I did for Gods and it worked. It may seem stupid but

1) it's rather easy, quick to do, so results are immediate.
2) it made me code the basic kernel objects (sprites, fadein, fadeout, screens)
3) the game itself will need a level editor first. I'm not starting development without one (but I'll restart from my work on Gods). At least the intro does not need one.
4) If I want to stop now, I can

[heavy]

Great news !
(I'm also waiting for the final release of Ruff'n Tumble by shezzor...)

[jotd]

Originally Posted by heavy

Great news !
(I'm also waiting for the final release of Ruff'n Tumble by shezzor...)

I can't help you on that one

But the fellow certainly takes his time...

[Chain]

how about compile it for OS4 also?

[jotd]

Originally Posted by Chain

how about compile it for OS4 also?

I'm planning to release the source code in the end.

[Bloodwych]

Another nice project on the way jotd, great to see!

[Dastardly]

Jotd you're a star!

I wanna buy you a beer

[Shoonay]

Nice, thanks!

[gimbal]

Too bad I was liking the idea of the Chaos Engine, especially with the work you did in the maps.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by gimbal

Too bad I was liking the idea of the Chaos Engine, especially with the work you did in the maps.

actually the work has been already done, check HOL. I think the maps were added while I was looking how to rip them (the files are dated from 03/03/2008).
I was a bit annoyed about that because I have worked for zit, but that's life.

[gimbal]

I was a bit annoyed about that because I have worked for zit, but that's life.

Meh, I still think you are cool

Why C++ this time? I would think you could reuse some stuff from Gods to save time?

Also:

I agree that Magic Pockets is not the best of the Bros games, but 1) Chaos Engine 2 sucks hard!!!!

All the more reason to make it better!!!

[turrican3]

like it use sdl do you think we could launch it on amiga one day ?
will it be hard to convert it to work with the amiga sdl system for 68k (sdl 1.2.6) ?
i'm not a coder, don't blame me if it's a stupid question.

[gimbal]

The general complaint from people switching from Amiga to PC coding is that on the PC it is way too easy and boring, to get things done on the Amiga you needed a lot more expertise and code optimized for the hardware to get the full power of the machine working for you. So if a port would be done, the game would have to not only be converted from C/C++ to ASM, but also (at least) the blitting code would have to be adapted and optimized for the Amiga hardware. I would say a lot of work yes

[jotd]

Originally Posted by turrican3

like it use sdl do you think we could launch it on amiga one day ?
will it be hard to convert it to work with the amiga sdl system for 68k (sdl 1.2.6) ?
i'm not a coder, don't blame me if it's a stupid question.

Yes SDL would allow to make it run on an amiga. But SDL does not solve all the problems.
The main problem being the graphics mode.

With a good gfx board, I think it should work. No way in native modes (planar/chunky problem, I think SDL does not like planar modes)

I'll try to make a test (the problem will be an outdated gcc more than SDL, but maybe we can cross-compile)

[turrican3]

jotd, we could try to send an email to the guy who did the last port of sdl to amiga and ask him if he could make a newer one ?
If you say it could help ?
everybody let's go.
ps: i think it's a good way to have new amiga games.
edited: gcc what is that ? cross compiler ?
what is the best gcc for trying to have a new version ? (sending emails)

edited :gcc : that's it jotd ? : GNU C/C++/Objc compiler

[jotd]

@gimbal: thanks for thinking that I am cool . BTW I DO reuse stuff from Gods. All icons & map editors have been slightly adapted and it works.
About converting C++ to asm: no way josé. I'd rather try to cross compile with a very good gcc (for t3: gcc is the GNU C compiler) version. A lot of action games are coded in C on the amiga. Ok, they crawl, but I doubt they had gcc. They used that crap Lattice & MANX.
And I understand nothing about the blitter. Planar mode is a nightmare. I do that during my spare time. Why remaking Magic Pockets on the amiga: it's already there. The idea is to use the power of new PCs to enhance resolution, colors, add alpha channel, add MP3 sound. All this cannot be done on amiga classic, and not on PPCs unless some stuff is cut down.

@turrican 3: the limit of the amiga is the CPU power and also GFX power.
680x0 + planar display + chipmem = crawls.
And SDL cannot help for that since it's not designed to optimize, just make it simpler, and not designed with the amiga in mind...

Let's face it: the classic amiga is dead. We can still play the games designed for it and enjoy them very much, but new games? noooo. If you want to play Magic Pockets, use the original !
The amiga spirit (and more generally the 16-bit spirit, ST, Arcade...) , on the other hand, will not die, because people continue to contribute to it on new machines. Check all the remakes, you'll be convinced. Let's move on!

[frikilokooo]

Originally Posted by jotd

Let's face it: the classic amiga is dead. We can still play the games designed for it and enjoy them very much, but new games? noooo. If you want to play Magic Pockets, use the original !
The amiga spirit (and more generally the 16-bit spirit, ST, Arcade...) , on the other hand, will not die, because people continue to contribute to it on new machines. Check all the remakes, you'll be convinced. Let's move on!

Your words are a little hard I could say that remakes are a stupidity,they don't have sense,I prefer ALWAYS play the original game because it's better.I have not played a remake never.New games are different though and I enjoy them A LOTI have envy of C64 or Spectrum system,they have a lot of new games nowadays,are they systems dead too?

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by jotd

Let's face it: the classic amiga is dead. We can still play the games designed for it and enjoy them very much, but new games? noooo.

All very well but the 8-bit machines tend to get new games on a relatively regular basis, so why not the Amiga? A few of us are trying to do something about it but really I don't know why the older machines tend to get new games but the Amiga (and indeed, the ST) don't tend to very often.

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by jotd

@gimbal: thanks for thinking that I am cool . BTW I DO reuse stuff from Gods. All icons & map editors have been slightly adapted and it works.
About converting C++ to asm: no way josé. I'd rather try to cross compile with a very good gcc (for t3: gcc is the GNU C compiler) version. A lot of action games are coded in C on the amiga. Ok, they crawl, but I doubt they had gcc. They used that crap Lattice & MANX.
And I understand nothing about the blitter. Planar mode is a nightmare. I do that during my spare time. Why remaking Magic Pockets on the amiga: it's already there. The idea is to use the power of new PCs to enhance resolution, colors, add alpha channel, add MP3 sound. All this cannot be done on amiga classic, and not on PPCs unless some stuff is cut down.

@turrican 3: the limit of the amiga is the CPU power and also GFX power.
680x0 + planar display + chipmem = crawls.
And SDL cannot help for that since it's not designed to optimize, just make it simpler, and not designed with the amiga in mind...

Let's face it: the classic amiga is dead. We can still play the games designed for it and enjoy them very much, but new games? noooo. If you want to play Magic Pockets, use the original !
The amiga spirit (and more generally the 16-bit spirit, ST, Arcade...) , on the other hand, will not die, because people continue to contribute to it on new machines. Check all the remakes, you'll be convinced. Let's move on!

for me no problem jotd , i just asked if it was possible, if it's not, i respect your point of you, i'm not a coder.
thanks for your answer, with all my respect for all your achievements on amiga

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

All very well but the 8-bit machines tend to get new games on a relatively regular basis, so why not the Amiga? A few of us are trying to do something about it but really I don't know why the older machines tend to get new games but the Amiga (and indeed, the ST) don't tend to very often.

little bit off-topic but yes graham why old 8 bits have more new games than amiga ? If someone have the answer. Perhaps because it takes more time to make amiga games ?
oss topic closed (for me)

[Graham Humphrey]

Oh and one more word on this from me (sorry for going off-topic by the way):

@jotd

Just like to add I'm not in anyway criticising you or your efforts, you've done some excellent work and I'm not at all suggesting you should suddenly start programming Amiga games - I just merely disagreed with that statement above

[Dastardly]

Everybody stop hassling jotd!...or at least wait until Magic Pockets is finished

[Qube]

Good luck with the remake jotd, if its like your gods remake then it will be an excellent tribute and you can improve the game at the same time! Looking forward to it

[turrican3]

Originally Posted by jotd

@turrican 3: the limit of the amiga is the CPU power and also GFX power.
680x0 + planar display + chipmem = crawls.
And SDL cannot help for that since it's not designed to optimize, just make it simpler, and not designed with the amiga in mind...

I thought about amiga with cgfx not aga or ecs, when i see the result with scummvm (great work), i thought perhaps it was possible.
Still not possible ? (sorry to ask again, but i would like so much to see enhanced amiga games but on amiga )
Last time i will disturb this thread with this, i promise

[jotd]

@all: I must say that I appreciate the interest you show on my remakes and on Bitmap Bros games. Me I'd be ready to pay 5000 euros for a new level set of any of the following bitmap bros game: Cadaver, Chaos Engine, Gods, Magic Pockets. The level set would have to be created by the Bros of course .

@turrican3: yes, with cybergfx at least SDL is usable (chunky pixel). Maybe some work could be ported

@graham: I understand and I don't resent your remark, sorry about my hard words. But everyone agrees that there are no more amiga games, although there's a lot of 8-bit games.
Why? Because it's a lot easier to create simple games on 8 bit computers than to create 16-bit games like Turrican or Gods, or Z-Out.
People expect more from a new amiga game than from a 8 bit game. If you want to create an amiga game now, with all the cross-compiling and stuff it will
still look like shit compared to the 1990's titles.
8 bit machines have simple palettes, gfx, and it's a lot easier to match former commercial games than on the amiga.
And the first home computers will remain the 8 bit. The amiga is good, but is an in-between machine.
Also, people who owned 8-bits tend to hack more. People who owned amigas just play games and complain about missing ports

okay. You want new amiga games? You want 8 bit games? You can have both: Check here and here tell me if you want amiga ports of those ones (those games use SDL)

[frikilokooo]

Originally Posted by jotd

Me I'd be ready to pay 5000 euros for a new level set of any of the following bitmap bros game: Cadaver, Chaos Engine, Gods, Magic Pockets. The level set would have to be created by the Bros of course .

I would pay rather less but I would pay for it.It would be brilliant that Bros would create NEW enemies and NEW graphics backgrounds for its games.Lamentably that will not happen.

[Dastardly]

THe important thing would be that the original Bitmap Bros made new games/levels, and not just whoever is employed by them now.

The Chaos Engine 2 is technically a Bitmap Brothers game but it never really was IMO.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by Dastardly

THe important thing would be that the original Bitmap Bros made new games/levels, and not just whoever is employed by them now.

The Chaos Engine 2 is technically a Bitmap Brothers game but it never really was IMO.

subcontracting is the worst thing

CE2 graphics, great sound, crap gameplay! a heartbreak.

[jotd]

check the MP remake page if you like

you'll see some info & screenshots of the game in progress. You'll notice the extra colors & (discrete) alpha channel effects.

[gimbal]

So how are you doing with the project, oh great and wise jotd? At least let us know that you are busy and cannot be arsed to do any work on this project at the moment

[jotd]

Originally Posted by gimbal

So how are you doing with the project, oh great and wise jotd? At least let us know that you are busy and cannot be arsed to do any work on this project at the moment

Development made some progress, but there are still some annoying bugs and enemy A.I. is non-existent ATM.
I've halted development for now and I'm creating a new level 3 of Gods instead
But I'll provide a demo of the first level soon enough, when I feel like it.