Using High-Density discs

[Tim Janssen]

Is it possible to use 3,5" HD-discs (the ones with two holes) with a standard Amiga?
I have tried it some time ago and it worked fine. However, I have heard some rumours that the data can get lost after some usage and you cannot use HD discs on different Amigas.

Can anyone help?

The Amiga 4000 comes with a 1.44 meg disk drive, which is great if you don't have a network connection with your Amiga.

There was a high density disk drive by a 3rd party which had mixed results as I remember. My mate had bad problems with the workbench patch not working and data disappearing.

[LaundroMat]

I've always taped the second hole over, and then I had no problems at all on my A1200. I also tried without the holes taped over, and I never had any problems there either. I did hear those rumours that they weren't reliable too, though. Never experienced any problems, however.

[Akira]

This is the drill: some A500 drives won't take the HD disks, methinks even if you tape the second hole. However newer Amigas will use it with no problems.

You can, theoretically, leave the second hole untaped, but when teh drive tries to verify data, it will fail. If you use a copier program and copy without verifying, you will have no probs. If yuo use verifying it will not write. ADF writing programs verify, so tape it. IS uppose the A1200 drive should work teh same as my A600 one.

No data lost after years of using them. That's got to be bollocks.

[Tim Janssen]

I am sure my humble Amiga 500 is capable of using HD-discs. I always use X-copy 10 with Verify Off, 81 sectors and RAM usage ON. I think the Amiga games will work allright on HD disc.

[Mangar]

Hell, it has to work.. that is all i have ever been able to use since 1992.. havent seen low density disks in a long time..

I have been using HDD's since '92.. work fine for me.. hope that helps..

[Tim Janssen]

Hi Mangar,

Many thanks for your comforting words.
I am fully confident now that using HD-discs for Amiga should cause no problems. I still own a small collection of empty DD discs but it is declining very fast. Thank god HD discs are still being sold in the shops.

Any idea if I'll be able to use HD disks with an Amiga 2000?

[Mangar]

I use HDD's on my A1200 as well as my A2000..

[Tim Janssen]

Last weekend I have experienced with HD discs on my Amiga. The only 'strange' habit that has occurred is that my Amiga does not immediately load the discs. Resetting the machine does some wonders then.

B.T.W: Tazz: This week I'll send you the Amiga discs by post. I have copied Workbench & Extras on HD discs. Yo! Joe! and a couple of other programs are on DD discs. I'll wrap them in paper and an envelope. Let's hope I use enough stamps

[Akira]

Oi, I was going to offer Tazz the very same thing, since he seems to not be able to set up his stuff. Anyway, Tazz, I can hook you up with transfer programs, if you want.

Tim: Thanks a lot!!!! I appreciate BIG time!


Akira: I appreciate the offer! But since Tim lives in the same country as me, I think the disks will be here sooner when he sends them

I've read a few sites and a bunch of them listed a small AmigaBASIC transfer program. This way I can hook up my A2000 with my PC using a null modem cable and transfer the software. For that I'll need the "Extras" Workbench disks which should contain AmigaBASIC.

I'll read your FAQ again.. maybe I can find some better answers.

[Akira]

AmigaBASIC doesnt come in Workbench versions newer than 1.3, so depending on which disks Tim is sending to you, you will be able to do that or not.

If it doesn't work, I can send you a terminal proggie. Don't be impatient if it takes a week man :P It's all for your Amiga's sake

Incredibly dumb question ahead:

The version of Workbench you can use, is that directly related to the Kickstart ROM version I have in my Amiga?

If so, any version you suggest would be best for an A2000 with a 1GB HD?

[Akira]

It is directly related. You have to find out which kickstart your A200 is running before feeding it any Workbench.

Workbench 1.1/1.3 will work with kickstarts 1.2 and up (afaik, maybe 1.3 won't work on 1.2), Workbench 2 will work with kickstarts 2.0 and up, and Workbench 3 will work with kickstarts 3 and 3.1. Anything newer works with kickstart 3.1.

For your HD and all taht stuff, you need at least Kickstart 2.0+Workbench 2.0... it's a sight damn better than shitty 1.3... It's a much much better system, really. To keep compatibility high though, you should install a rom sharer.

[Tim Janssen]

Tazz,
I have copied Workbench v1.3 and Extra's v1.2 to disc.
The Extra's disc contains Amiga Basic, some awful Microsoft Workbench demos (they even couldn't program way back in 1987) and some sort of PC Tool.

About Kickstart ROMs: Now I think of it, I have never paid attention to the Amiga start-up screen. When you boot up your Amiga, you will be presented a white screen which features a drawn hand which is holding a disc. Here you can see which Kickstart ROM you are using (I think).

If the unlikely situation occurs that your Workbench does not work, you can still play some games and programs I will send you: Yo! Joe!, X-Copy 10, Bombjack, Army Moves, Sky Chase, Attack on London and Starglider 2.

Thanks a lot guys!! I really appreciate it. I don't have that many ADF's myself but if I can help someone in return - do let me know.

I have no idea what Kickstart version it has. I think it has 1.3. Let's first get my HD controller and then we can start worrying about buying new Kickstart ROMS.

[Akira]

The Hand does not appear in Kickstart revs 2.0 and up. Instead, a disk animation is what you get.

Anyway, it's easy to find out the kickstart man. Turn on the 2000 and look at the screen. It will tell you which kickstart you got. In any case, what Tim is sending you will work fine with your amchine, however, it's no good for your HD. I say you should upgrade.

Yeah I'm planning on upgrading the kickstart ROM as soon as I have the A2091. Is it easy to replace?

A Dutch Amiga store has the following items, are the prices good and.. what do I need?


KickStart 1.3 ROM A500/A2000/CDTV $10 USD

Kickstart 2.05 ROM A500/600/2000 $25 USD

Kickstart 3.1 ROM A500/2000 (AS320 upgrade) $35 USD

Kickstart 3.2 ROM for A2000 with Fusion-Forty kaart $100 USD

Kickstart Swapping Print 2x for A500/2000 $10 USD

Kickstart Swapping Print 3x (1.3/2.0/3.0) $25 USD


And do I need the following? (Are these combined with the Kickstart ROMs?)


AmigaDOS 1.3 (ROM, disks, manual) A500/600/2000 $35 USD
AmigaDOS 2.0 (ROM, disks, manual) A500/600/2000 $50 USD

AmigaDOS 2.1 (ROM, disks, manual - AS216) A500/600/2000 $65 USD

AmigaDOS 3.1 (ROM, disks, manual - AS320) A500/600/2000 $75 USD


Sorry if this sounds lame, I just don't want to spend a lot of money and end up with the wrong stuff..

[Akira]

You need this:
Kickstart 3.1 ROM A500/2000 (AS320 upgrade) $35 USD

and look for a Kickstart ROM sharer, or something like that. This will allow you to have 2 kickstarts at once (selectable by a switch/keyboard combination), so you can have the best of both worlds. In case a game doesn't liek your new kickstart, just switch to 1.3 and you are set.

But then again, you are a complete Amiga newbie, so this might be of use to you:

AmigaDOS 3.1 (ROM, disks, manual - AS320) A500/600/2000 $75 USD

You get a LEGAL copy, the ROM, and the manuals, which will work a treat.

Of course, if you don't plan to use your A200 too seriously (only games), I'd go for the Workbench 2.1 pack, but it's only 10 bucks less, so I don't know if it's worth the saving.

Again, all this is assuming you have a 1.3 machine. Why don't you bloody turn it on and tell us what it is?

Cause I still need to make room at my desk for it. At the moment I'm working about 14 - 16 hours a day to meet our software deadline of the 1st of June. Which is tomorrow and no I'm not finished yet.

So when I come home I eat and sleep, no time for anything else.

I better get on with work.

[Akira]

Just hook it up to whatever and check the screen, it takes one minute

Anyway, what software are you working on?

Okay I could not resist. I got Tims' disks today (many many thx!!!) and I shoved the papers and books aside and placed the A2000 on the desk for a first look.

It's a 1.3 machine, what I already expected. Workbench showed that it had 29xxxxxxx bytes or so available, so I take it this baby has a 2MB expension onboard? The mouse is a goner so I'll have to order a new one.

As soon as I get the A2091 I'll go for 3.1.


I was looking at the monitor cable.. just curious, is it possible to hook the A2000 up to a normal 17" monitor and/or a PC .. or do I need some sort of conversion hardware? (if so, what do I need?)

[Mangar]

I'm in no way a tech expert but here is what I tried..

Wanted to hook amiga up to PC monitor
found out I needed a thing called a gecko which I have 2 of now
Hooked it up.. scrambled screen..
Someone told me since the amiga display ran at a low hertz it was too low for any pc monitor blah blah blah.. tried it on an old EGA monitor and didnt work as well.. blah blah blah.. pissed me off to high hell.. what a waste of time.. I spent weeks trying to get it to work.. Bought an a1200 with a 1942 montior.. end of story..

I think you need something called a "scan doubler" to connect a PC monitor with an Amiga?

I'd definitely be interested in hooking my Amiga up with my TV, perhaps something with a monitor switch so I can switch between TV (for games) and 1084S monitor for Workbench stuff.

Are all C= 1084S monitors making such a peeping-sound (very high frequency) and run on such a low refreshrate or is mine just porked? It's working fine though and I remember this from my friends A500 as well.

Tim, Just a question.. when I try Yo Joe! it shows the intro loader and then I hit the firebutton and it stops loading. The driveled is on but it's not reading anything anymore. When I reset (Ctrl-A-A) after removing Yo Joe! Disk 1/2, I get a Guru error while 'booting' <there's nothing to boot from>.

I reset again and it's gone. The other games run just fine and most importantly Workbench 1.3 + Extra disk are working brilliantly.

Eventhough I don't have a my HD controller yet, I can already start transferring stuff from PC to Amiga, thanks to the 3MB! Internal RAM

[Akira]

Ok, step by step, I take this

"29xxxxxxx bytes or so available" means you have around 3 megs. Perhaps 4, 3 is a strange number.

You do need a scan doubler to conenct yoru AMiag to a VGA monitor. However the picture will be neater on an RGB monitor like the 1080/81/84. The screen is tiny but of high quality. The best way to connect an Amiga to a VGA monitor is using an XRGB2 device, in such case you don't need the scandoubler and you have hardware-emulated scanlines Be ready to pay 250 dolars for the privilege though. A godsend, anyway, for anybody with RGB modified consoles. By the way, games will look much better on the 1084.

If your 1084 is emitting a squeal, it's porked indeedy. The low refresh rate is obviously intentional but you should not be noticing any sound. Amigas work at 50 or 60 Hz, sometimes you will be able to see scanlines, depends on how screwed up the monitor is. I have recently noticed my diskdrive is interferring with my monitor, I think I should change the fdd.

Yo! Joe might be crashing because of the extra memory. It is strange that the power led light does not flash, but sometimes this does happen, thus when you reset, the guru appears. yYu don't need to reset again, just press the mousebutton and it will continue booting. Try using a degrading utility to kill your extra RAM. I doubt the game needs an ECS chipset, if this is the case, you can't do anything.

Akire,

I'm having problems transferring ADF's from PC to Amiga using WarTrans. WarTrans uses a simple AmigaBASIC client and a PC client. I've written the A-BASIC client and it's exactly like it says in the documents but......I can't get a connection! (yes the nullmodem cable is in the right ports etc etc).

Erhm can I still take you up on this offer for a comm-program?

Our local amiga dealer (actually the only one in the whole country) claims that PC monitors can be connected directly to amiga with an adaptor and then any workbench compliant program and any workbench environment with default resolutions can be displayed without problems

scandoubler is said to be necessary for non default video modes such as the ones the non-dos games need.Anyway I haven't tested it myself.

I can still connect my amiga to my pc monitor via my tv card

[Akira]

With ECS machuines and up, you surely can do this, on workbench, but you are forced to use the Productivity modes. The otehr Workbench screens use the same refresh rate as naany game screen.

You are losing a lot of quality doing that TV card thing, my friend It still is a lifesaver in case you need to look at both screens at once, I do it from time to time, but I rather have the clean image of my 1084.

Tazz, I have no clue about that Amigabasic tihng. I heard it's shite. Offer is still valid, send me a PM, okay?

Cheers,

[Twistin'Ghost]

Burseg, the way I remember it (from about 1995) was that the PC monitor needed to be able to sync to 15KHz in order to be used with the Amiga. Then, you will need a converter thingie in order to make the cables compatible. I am no expert in this area, and frankly know precious little about it. I would be delighted to learn I am wrong and can use my PC monitor and a switchbox so that I could get on with hooking up my Amiga and getting my damn files sent over.

[Tim Janssen]

Tazz,

A couple of posts ago you wrote:

when I try Yo Joe! it shows the intro loader and then I hit the firebutton and it stops loading. The driveled is on but it's not reading anything anymore. When I reset (Ctrl-A-A) after removing Yo Joe! Disk 1/2, I get a Guru error while 'booting' <there's nothing to boot from>.

The Yo! Joe! discs you use work fine because I have completed the whole game with it.
When you insert the first disc, you get a cracktro. Hit the left mousebutton and the game will load. This will take some time and after a few minutes you will be presented the main title screen (the one with a big city and the moving 'graffity'-trains.)

Akira stated the amount of memory could be the cause of your problem. I do not know what the exact specs of your machine are, but my 1 Mb Amiga 500 has a switch-cable which is directly attached to the memory card. With this cable it is possible to switch between 1 Mb and 500 Kb. Maybe your A2000 has a similar cable?

Unlikely. My Amiga 2000 has a HUGE memory expension board which is plugged into one of the slots (Zorro II I asume?). No cable running to the board whatsoever.

The problem is that the diskdrive is absolutely silent, not making any reading noises. I'll try again.

[Akira]

The drive is locked. This is a normal software failure (wait for disk activity to finish ). It will get stuck there and when you reset you will get a guru (of the 0003 type perhaps?).

I'd say you disable the expansion board and see what happens. But I don't think that board has a disable switch. You will have to try a degrader.

I received your message, I will reply as soon as I can.