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Old 18 July 2008, 16:01   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Are they not the same person?

Ah, I see the "Brains" behind NatAmi is Thomas Hirsch and this Gunnar bloke is... well... erm... "a nobody" ?

That probably explains a lot. I've read several posts by this Gunnar and most of them are bollox. Certainly not of the standard you'd expect from someone who knew anything about ASIC design.

Exactly! BigGun is the "self-proclaimed Natami spokesman" while the REAL work is done by Thomas Hirsch. 'nuff said I guess. But the interview with BigGun is bloody hilarious. :P
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Old 18 July 2008, 18:18   #182
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Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
but he just didn't understand the simplest things regarding programming
hmm, like what ? what did you exactly ask him to do and what did he answer ? (just curious)
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Old 18 July 2008, 19:07   #183
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hehe nice to see you beeing super active stingy I hope u are as active coding some nice new routines for us to see again soon
Still natami seems nice, so if something good comes out of that project that can support the die hard amiga scene/community, then I'm in for it
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Old 18 July 2008, 19:30   #184
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hmm, like what ? what did you exactly ask him to do and what did he answer ? (just curious)
I didn't ask him anything, he joined a german Amiga forum and wrote a lot of, let's call it "nonsense" there. For example stuff like "it's totally easy to make the Kickstart Coldfire compatible". Once I explained him in detail why disassembling the Kickstart is not an easy task he claimed that "it can be done in one week". Once I explained him once again that this is nonsense he wanted to bet 1000 EUR that he can do that. Once I accepted the bet (well, easily earned money ) he suddenly didn't say anything about that anymore. Other things were stuff where he didn't even understand the difference between "add.w" and "add.l", really trivial stuff... End of the story: He claimed that I know nothing and he knows all and then left the forum. Funny, really. Oh, well, I actually DID ask him something: I asked him how many programs he already had disassembled and how many things he coded in 68k asm. Needless to say, he NEVER answered any of these questions.
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Old 18 July 2008, 22:44   #185
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Well, he's disassembling the Kickstart now and doing a decent job of it. It'll probably take more than a week though. If he doesn't know 68k Assembly then why is he so adept at modifying and identifying shortcomings in the 68k code generator for GCC? Maybe he hasn't coded entire programs in Assembly because he wrote them in C and optimized the slow parts in Assembly like any sane programmer would.

I think Thomas Hirsch is probably behind the hardware stuff and Gunnar is doing the software part as he goes. As for the Kickstart needing to be patched for the Coldfire, it doesn't need it any more because the latest Coldfires are only available for bulk distribution. The 68070 makes more sense anyway in that regard.
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Old 18 July 2008, 22:55   #186
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Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
Well, he's disassembling the Kickstart now and doing a decent job of it. It'll probably take more than a week though. If he doesn't know 68k Assembly then why is he so adept at modifying and identifying shortcomings in the 68k code generator for GCC? Maybe he hasn't coded entire programs in Assembly because he wrote them in C and optimized the slow parts in Assembly like any sane programmer would.
Sure thing That's why he's still asking in the Natami forum for people to help him. Anyway, believe what you want to believe, I know enough about BigGun already. And about him "identifying shortcomings in the 68k code generator for gcc", yes, I saw his "filed bugreports" and it was great fun.

Oh and I might quote what BigGun said about Kickstart disassembling:
"I feel sorry for anyone who needs longer than a week to fully disassemble the Kickstart!"

So he should feel sorry for himself.

Quote:
I think Thomas Hirsch is probably behind the hardware stuff and Gunnar is doing the software part as he goes.
Thomas Hirsch is not "probably" behind the hardware stuff, he IS the main Natami developer!

Quote:
As for the Kickstart needing to be patched for the Coldfire, it doesn't need it any more because the latest Coldfires are only available for bulk distribution. The 68070 makes more sense anyway in that regard.
Yes I read that. And I had a "nice" discussion with BigGun about that Coldfire stuff.... So I can't help but chuckle to see that now the Coldfire idea is dropped. Maybe BigGun should search for a job as entertainer? At least he made me laugh more than once.

Last edited by StingRay; 18 July 2008 at 23:07.
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Old 18 July 2008, 23:38   #187
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It will only take more than a week if he comments the whole thing. As it is, somebody did help him by pointing him to a utility that splits the ROM image into its constituent libraries and devices. That would have been a chore but it's done in a hurry thanks to that utility.

In short:
If he needs help, he'll get it. Don't waste your time feeling sorry or "entertained".
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Old 18 July 2008, 23:41   #188
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Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
It will only take more than a week if he comments the whole thing.
That's the FUCKING BEST JOKE I've heard in a LONG time. Awesome!

On a serious note: Do you actually believe what you just wrote? When can we expect fully disassembled and relocated Kickstart then? In 2 weeks? Can't wait! And how is it possible that mighty BigGun can comment the whole disassembled Kickstart code when he's not even able to understand EXTREMELY trivial COMMENTED sources? So many questions remain unanswered And why does he actually need help from other people? After all, he posted a "foolproof" approach (which was a great laugh, really :P) how to disassemble the Kickstart in the mentioned german Amiga forum. He's not even able to follow his own "tutorials" even though according to him "it's extremely easy to disassemble the Kickstart"? Hmm, yes, he should look for a job as entertainer!

Last edited by StingRay; 18 July 2008 at 23:56.
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Old 19 July 2008, 00:33   #189
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This thread looks like a ping-pong match...
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Old 19 July 2008, 01:58   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
That's the FUCKING BEST JOKE I've heard in a LONG time. Awesome!

On a serious note: Do you actually believe what you just wrote? When can we expect fully disassembled and relocated Kickstart then? In 2 weeks? Can't wait! And how is it possible that mighty BigGun can comment the whole disassembled Kickstart code when he's not even able to understand EXTREMELY trivial COMMENTED sources? So many questions remain unanswered And why does he actually need help from other people? After all, he posted a "foolproof" approach (which was a great laugh, really :P) how to disassemble the Kickstart in the mentioned german Amiga forum. He's not even able to follow his own "tutorials" even though according to him "it's extremely easy to disassemble the Kickstart"? Hmm, yes, he should look for a job as entertainer!

Considering that he doesn't have to disassemble the ENTIRE kickstart to get it working... and has a professional disassembler for the 68k instruction set that supports the Amiga Hunk format... I'd say it shouldn't take long to get it done. Did I mention that the splitting of the ROM image into its constituent libraries with the ROM Split utility took a single click of the mouse to accomplish?

It's not a question of ability. (He probably talks a lot bigger than he walks.) It's a question of having the right tools for the job.
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Old 19 July 2008, 12:04   #191
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Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
It's not a question of ability. (He probably talks a lot bigger than he walks.) It's a question of having the right tools for the job.

Sure, I'd also win a Formula 1 race if someone would provide me with an appropriate racing car even though I never drove such car before.
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Old 19 July 2008, 14:54   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
When can we expect fully disassembled and relocated Kickstart then?
Kickstarts will be relocated since 1992 at least. Disassembled much longer, check ISBN 3-88320-168-5.
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Old 19 July 2008, 14:58   #193
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Wepl: we were talking about 3.xx kickstarts. And about a FULLY disassembled version!
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Old 19 July 2008, 15:34   #194
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That was an example to show that the kickstarts gets disassembled since they exists.
BTW it has taken me less than 3 mins to resource and assemble it:
Code:
BASM 2.16 (28-Jun-00)
«Barfly Assembler (REG.)»
Copyright © Ralph Schmidt 1990-98

Assembling : kick40068.A1200.asm

PASS 1
PASS 2

131081 Lines assembled in 1.571 Seconds(5004068 Lines/Min)
kick40068.A1200.asm contains 131081 Lines.
0 Symbol(s) declared global.
0 Symbol(s) referenced external.
1 Macros(s) defined.
0 Macros(s) called.
0 Includes added to the Cache
0 Includes found in the Cache
1 Hunk(s) created.
Optimizing saved 0 Bytes Code.
Hunk: 0 Name=`'
Start:0 End:$80000 524288 Bytes Reloc:0 Mode:CODE Memory:PUBLIC

Output : kick40068.A1200

Errors: 0 Warnings: 0
Assembling Ok! No Errors found.
Code type is position independent.Output file size 524288 bytes.
File saved in 0.294 Seconds(1782.837 KB/s).
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Old 19 July 2008, 15:47   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wepl View Post
That was an example to show that the kickstarts gets disassembled since they exists.
I do know that. I even saw the original(!) sources of Kick 3.xx once

Quote:
BTW it has taken me less than 3 mins to resource and assemble it:
And you can modify your kickstart at will? I.e. adding patches, changing code etc.? Please also note that I did NOT say it's impossible to resource the Kickstart!

Edit: And I just tried it myself using good old ReSource. But just to create a plain disassembly which can be assembled (which I would not even dare to call a GOOD disassembly) I need a lot more than 3 minutes. How did you manage to do it in 3 minutes? (just curious)

Last edited by StingRay; 19 July 2008 at 16:02.
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Old 19 July 2008, 17:56   #196
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It looks like dc.l $...

PS: I tought that '131081 Lines' would explain enough
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Old 19 July 2008, 20:11   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
I do know that. I even saw the original(!) sources of Kick 3.xx once



And you can modify your kickstart at will? I.e. adding patches, changing code etc.? Please also note that I did NOT say it's impossible to resource the Kickstart!

Edit: And I just tried it myself using good old ReSource. But just to create a plain disassembly which can be assembled (which I would not even dare to call a GOOD disassembly) I need a lot more than 3 minutes. How did you manage to do it in 3 minutes? (just curious)

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?...6&x=1&z=WLcCm0 the last post shows how he did it.

-edit-
That took less than a week, BTW. The modifications will take longer though.
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Old 19 July 2008, 20:16   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wepl View Post
It looks like dc.l $...

PS: I tought that '131081 Lines' would explain enough
Hehehe I just wanted to make sure you're from this world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?...6&x=1&z=WLcCm0 the last post shows how he did it.

-edit-
That took less than a week, BTW. The modifications will take longer though.
It doesn't really show anything but well, I won't discuss this matter further. Also, what he has done is just a FRACTION of the kickstart. And of course, he sounds as if he's king of the world as usual. Very very entertaining at least.

Edit: And don't you think it's just a BIT peculiar that only after someone posted a link to Romsplit our super Günni now suddenly is able to present disassembled code? Before he could present nothing but hot air... The discussion where he claimed that it's incredibly easy to disassemble the Kickstart we had in February this year... Make up your own mind about his abilities.

Last edited by StingRay; 19 July 2008 at 21:22. Reason: typo fixed
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Old 19 July 2008, 21:19   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wepl View Post
It looks like dc.l $...

PS: I tought that '131081 Lines' would explain enough
There are 9 lines useless

Code:
BASM 2.16 (28-Jun-00)
I think it's an unofficial version, isn't it?
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Old 19 July 2008, 22:46   #200
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Originally Posted by Psygore View Post
There are 9 lines useless
ORG was required to get the correct output size and some resource stuff were remaining

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Originally Posted by Psygore View Post
Code:
BASM 2.16 (28-Jun-00)
I think it's an unofficial version, isn't it?
It was official I'm sure. On aminet is an older version only. I don't remember for sure but probably it was downloadable on the Phase5 page. We should ask Laire if he puts it online again.
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