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Old 04 March 2002, 10:34   #41
Twistin'Ghost
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
I'd be glad to compile such a FAQ, if there's demand for it.
I can assure you, there is a demand for it!

Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
I'm sorry, but I guess you'll have to live with that I'm using CygnusEd to edit my replies, as AWeb's text field editor is somewhat limited (to say the least) and text editors have that annoying habbit of ending a line with a CR .
Ah, but that is a configurable option in CED...
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Old 04 March 2002, 10:37   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
Name Apps that are *not* hopelessely outdated and require the custom chips.
I know three: Dpaint, Brilliance (mainly for their animation features) and
Scala. That's about it. Don't yell "VideoToaster" at me, as that would
require Zorro slots (and analog video editing is *really* yesterday's
technology).
The Video Toaster requires a free Video slot and does digital NLE editing with the Flyer card which goes into a Zorro slot. Many of the features of a Video Toaster 4000 & Flyer card are still not available on other editing systems. Even Toaster [2] does not have all the features of the Video Toaster Flyer.

"Video Toaster Flyer: The tapeless Editor: No editing system in the world compares to the quality, price, and ease of use of NewTek's revolutionary new Video Toaster Flyer. The Flyer is a D2, broadcast-quality, tapeless nonlinear edit system that costs $4795.00 (Or $500-$700 on ebay). Forget the hassle of hooking up a complicated A-B Roll editing system. Forget the expense of buying an edit controller and three VTR's. Forget waiting for sluggish tape access in an offline studio. With the Video Toaster, all that's history. Now you can record your video direct-to-disk, make edit decisions with the Flyer's drag and drop controls, and enjoy the finished program all in the same afternoon. Don't like the way a sequence looks? Drag the video clips into a new order, insert a new scene, or drop in background music with the click of a mouse. The choice is yours. Best of all, every change is immediate. There's no re-recording, no tape generation loss, and there are no botched edits. For a fraction of the cost, the Video Toaster Flyer provides the quality you expect from a $50,000 digital video deck. Plus, the flyer seamlessly integrates into the Video Toaster System."

http://www.computerroom.com/sales/vi...er/vtamiga.htm

Last edited by Pyromania; 04 March 2002 at 10:53.
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Old 04 March 2002, 21:03   #43
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Quote:
Your point of view is "It has custom chips, therefore it's an Amiga", my
point of view is "It runs AmigaOS natively, therefore it's an Amiga". We
won't agree on that one, I'm afraid
Amiga 3000UX is an extreme example but my point is actually "if it has AmigaOS that runs on an real amiga hardware, it is Amiga. My definition of Amiga hardware is, a multimedia computer that has advanced audiovisual abilities ahead of the standards of it's time yet easy to use and as inexpensive as any home computer. That's what Amiga once was and what it should be. AmigaOS is good with amiga hardware but it's just a gui when it runs on a x86 machine. I can do that with windowblinds
 
Old 06 March 2002, 05:18   #44
Korodny
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@Twisting':

>> I can assure you, there is a demand for it!

I'll post my version of a "Amiga these days" faq tomorrow. It's more of an
article than a faq, but who cares

>> Ah, but that is a configurable option in CED...

Not that I know of ? I can turn on word wrapping, but that will still
generate linefeeds ?

@Burseg:

>> Amiga 3000UX is an extreme example but my point is actually "if it has AmigaOS
>> that runs on an real amiga hardware, it is Amiga.

There's no further need to discuss this You won't agree that an AmigaOne
is an Amiga, and I won't agree that an Amiga needs custom chips.

Actually, I feel sorry for you: I can look forward to purchasing a new
Amiga model - you can't
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Old 06 March 2002, 05:38   #45
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I already have my new Amiga.
 
Old 06 March 2002, 06:09   #46
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I'm unclear on a couple of things

Okay here goes.....

AmigaOne - A new amiga that uses other companies hardware, it's like a PC or MAC (apart from processor) then?

Software - Who is gonna write software for this machine?

Drivers - If its using other companies hardware (officially?), who is gonna write the drivers?

Software again - Is the general market gonna except another OS in the mix (Windows, Linux, Beos, Mac OS X,9)?

Software again, again - The wonderfull windows XP isn't truly backwardly compatiable, i suppose this is gonna happen with the AmigaOne OS?

Business use - how many businesses do you know that used the Amiga 10 years ago?

Lifespan - The Amiga as a machine lasted a fairly long time (commerically), but it did die, whos to say that won't happen again?

Nokia - What do nokia know about the computer industry?

Amiga - What has the AmigaOne got to do with the Amiga, it uses none of the original hardware, OS or software?

Thanks for in advance for answering my stupid questions...
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Old 06 March 2002, 06:42   #47
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Your post, Djay, is precisely why I feel there is a serious need for an FAQ that better explains these differences. I realize not all of your questions would end up on an FAQ, but you get the idea.
Quote:
Software - Who is gonna write software for this machine?
Good question. I know there are games being developed for the platform. This page lists some of them.

The only way, it seems, to look at all of this is that AmigaOne is just another platform...that is not neccesarily a true-boing AC (Amiga compatible). Yeah...we can have AmigaAC's and AmigaNC's (Not Compatible)!
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Old 06 March 2002, 16:56   #48
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Okay,just thought I'd add my two cents worth about the "amiga" & what it meant....
I have to agree with Akira,Burseg,Djay etc.,the Amiga was about it hardware capabilities. When it was first shown off to the world it seemed unbeliveable specifications,4096 colours on-screen etc. It was the machine that every other design had to beat.
If this new Amiga is being aimed at the small percentage that are still active Amiga users,then it'll die at it's birth. It would take something spectacularly new to drive users away from their PC's, PS2's,Mac's,X-box's etc.
And for those that knock the "games don't matter" line,it could be argued the gaming sectore kept the Amiga alive for as long as it did. And look at how the average PC took off after Doom rose to prominence, you had to have sound,& a good GFX card etc.
Can you honestly say the PC market would've taken off had it not been for gamers hankering to the latest X-brand sound/GFX card to run "Y" game??
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Old 06 March 2002, 17:46   #49
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bloody hell someone agrees with me for once

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Old 06 March 2002, 20:07   #50
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@Djay:

>> AmigaOne - A new amiga that uses other companies hardware, it's like a PC or
>> MAC (apart from processor) then?

Yes. In fact, it is pretty much the same as a Mac.

>> Software - Who is gonna write software for this machine?

I answered that in a reply to one of Frederic's postings.

>> Drivers - If its using other companies hardware (officially?), who is gonna
>> write the drivers?

Amiga developers of course . OS4 will include drivers for:

- Soundblaster Live and SB ??? (What's that high end model with the EMU-something
chip called?)
- ATI Radeon family (including latest models)
- Matrox G450/550 and similar
- Voodoo 3/4/5
- Permedia 2/3
- SCRIPTS (SCSI controller)
- Some LAN adapter chipset I actually forgot.

USB stack will be minimal at first (mice, keyboards). Probably Turboprint (commercial
third party product which Amigans use for printer support for ages) will be released
as a USB version.

I can't go into more detail, as there are still negotiations going on. Expect AmigaOS4
to support a very limited range of hardware (compared to Windows), but expect it to
have very good support for the stuff that actually is supported.

>> Software again - Is the general market gonna except another OS in the mix (Windows,
>> Linux, Beos, Mac OS X,9)?

You guys have to get one thing out of your minds: AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne are
*not* an attempt to get into the "general market". The AmigaOne won't be sold by your
average PC dealer. There is no way to break Window's dominance by simply offering an
alternative OS.

That said, there *is* demand for a Windows alternative. AmigaOS offers a lot of
advantages, compared to Linux or MacOS. Advantages for users:

- very ressource friendly and fast
- very sensible structure, easy to understand, the user is controlling the OS, not
vice versa
- *highly* configurable to fit your needs
- there is already a broad range of software available
- existing infrastructure (user groups, Amiga shows, web based services, magazines,
dealers)

Adavantages for developers:

- users that are willing to pay for software (as opposed to the Linux community,
the Linux market is no market for commercial software developers)
- very easy to code
- very well documented APIs
- free software development kits and documentation
- existing infrastructure (see above)

Once again: If you think Windows is a good OS, or it suits your needs at least,
you shouldn't bother with AmigaOS4.

>> Software again, again - The wonderfull windows XP isn't truly backwardly
>> compatiable, i suppose this is gonna happen with the AmigaOne OS?

Please don't use the words "WindowsXP" and "wonderful" in the same sentence.

The A1 will be able to run a lot of the existing applications (probably 99% of the
stuff that was developed/updated in the last few years). And it will run a lot of
the really *old* stuff if an A1200 motherboard is attached. You'll probably need
WHDLoad to get games running, but I already need to do that on my current A1200
(and WHDLoad is a brilliant piece of software).

>> Business use - how many businesses do you know that used the Amiga 10 years ago?

Not much. Blame Commodore. So what? AmigaOne is still a "home computer".

>> Lifespan - The Amiga as a machine lasted a fairly long time (commerically), but
>> it did die, whos to say that won't happen again?

Nobody. So what? If Amiga fails miserably, I'll use MacOS X on my AmigaOne.

>> Nokia - What do nokia know about the computer industry?

Next to nothing. But Nokia knows *a lot* about embedded devices. And that's where
AmigaDE is aiming at the moment. Note that there's a difference between AmigaOne/
AmigaOS4 and AmigaDE.

>> Amiga - What has the AmigaOne got to do with the Amiga, it uses none of the
>> original hardware, OS or software?

An AmigaOne uses the same OS that your A500 used. There's still exec.library,
dos.library and intuition.library.

You can attach an A1200 to your AmigaOne, then it will have "Custom Chips", just
like your A500 (and that's the *only* possible way to do this).

An AmigaOne runs a lot of the old software (as long as an A1200 is attached) and
all software that is retargettable (without an A1200 attached).
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Old 06 March 2002, 20:21   #51
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thanks Korodny for clearing that up, although some of your points i don't agree with... I always refer to my Amiga as Classic

and

Quote:
Please don't use the words "WindowsXP" and "wonderful" in the same sentence.
i wasn't being serious!!!
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Old 06 March 2002, 20:30   #52
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@7-Zark-7:

>> I have to agree with Akira,Burseg,Djay etc.,the Amiga was about it hardware
>> capabilities. When it was first shown off to the world it seemed unbeliveable
>> specifications,4096 colours on-screen etc. It was the machine that every
>> other design had to beat.

I see your point (and I partly agree of course). As this is a retro-gaming board,
I'm not surprised by this attitude.

But face it: 2D gaming is practically dead (that would be the one area where
Amiga technology would still be somehwat competitive), same goes for analog video.

Today, computers are about true colour image manipulation, 3D gaming, and digital
video/audio. The hardware that is available is extremely good at these jobs.
There is no sense in trying to compete with the existing hardware. You won't have
the slightest chance - and why should you try to do so at all?

Two years ago, the NASA still used Amigas for mission critical surveillance
issues (don't know if they still do). Draco and Casablanca were extremely popular
(at least in Europe) NLE video editing devices using AmigaOS, but not the Amiga
custom chips. Amigas were able to burn MP3s on the fly to CDDAs, years before
PCs could handle that task. These are reasons why *I* still love this machine
(not to forget retro-gaming of course and that are not tied to the Custom
Chips.

>> If this new Amiga is being aimed at the small percentage that are still active
>> Amiga users,then it'll die at it's birth.

Well, that's your point of view. Some people are putting lots of money into the
OS4 project, I guess these people don't share your viewpoint

>> It would take something spectacularly new to drive users away from their PC's,
>> PS2's,Mac's,X-box's etc.

No. Does Linux have something spectacular to offer? Or the Mac? And Windows has a
lot of spectacular faults btw.

>> And for those that knock the "games don't matter" line,it could be argued the
>> gaming sectore kept the Amiga alive for as long as it did.

I didn't say "games don't matter". I said "old games don't matter", because somebody
requested all future Amigas must have Custom Chip compatability.
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Old 07 March 2002, 03:42   #53
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Quote:
But face it: 2D gaming is practically dead (that would be the one area where
Amiga technology would still be somehwat competitive), same goes for analog video.

Today, computers are about true colour image manipulation, 3D gaming, and digital
video/audio. The hardware that is available is extremely good at these jobs.
There is no sense in trying to compete with the existing hardware. You won't have
the slightest chance - and why should you try to do so at all?
Of course today's computing is a lot different and I don't say we should get stuck with old hardware and watch our rotten A1200 mainboards die. But I mean, if Amiga should return, that should be something extraordinary! What is Amigaone for? Apart from it's technology, the targeted market is different. It's not a home computer, it's a geek computer! People like us may wonder and buy it but that's just it because there is -no reason- for anyone to buy it. Admit it, it has just ordinary technology and extremely sparse () software support. Refuse this if you'd like but please answer, will there ever be amigaone/amigaos versions of photoshop,lightwave or maya or <put your favourite killer gfx app here> ? This will never happen and I can't think of an amiga that is not about graphics. Forget the custom chipset, let's say it was yesterday's technology. That's a fact it was old but it was an obvious advantage for amiga in the graphic market at that time. Today amiga should win it's advantageous position back if amigaone is to be a machine that deserves it's name and this *could* be achieved with software if amiga doesn't manufacture it's own hardware anymore. That's ok as long as good 2d gfx boards like matrox's or nvidia's or ati's 3d accelerators will work with a1 but windows and mac platforms have great software support. Hardware is useless without software and crappy photogenics is nothing against adobe photoshop and I don't think amiga inc or their partners in crime are aware of that. Additionally, software support is nothing alone, amigaone/amigaos should be BETTER in running that software and a1 is in need of a miracle

Also I wonder why would anyone install macos on amigaone, when they can just get a mac.

This is a retrogaming board but that doesn't mean that we are all stuck with pointless nostalgia, no matter how much you'd like to see it this way.

Last edited by Burseg; 07 March 2002 at 03:59.
 
Old 07 March 2002, 05:09   #54
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Apple has a killer OS, but still the industry standard main business apps (wordprocessor, spreadsheet etc...) are made for OS 9,X by microsoft, of course i'm refering to Mac Office...

... do really think that Microsoft are going to port these "Killer Apps" to an Amiga OS, i think not, and don't go saying "the Amiga doesn't need these apps", software makes the machine, the hardware is useless without software...

... love or hate 'em, microsoft make the "Important business tools" even Apple admit that, business computing takes a huge market share of the overall industry, if you don't get support from developers you are dead.

Amiga Inc/AmigaOne does not have buckets of money, but still they are saying basically "we want to make an OS/machine, that will not sell", if you don't make big sales you are dead.

there are 335 members of EAB, most of which probably have a fairly good income, love the Amiga, large technical knowledge of either coding, graphics, music, OS design and hardware development, SO I SAY * BOLLOCKS *, lets all come together to make a new Amiga, one that we want to see...

... now i know as well as you do, this just isn't possible, but so is Amiga Inc of making a success of this whole scenerio...

I.M.H.O.
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Old 07 March 2002, 07:55   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
But face it: 2D gaming is practically dead
*KOFF* Gameboy Advance *KOFF* * KOFF**



Long live Nintendo's little machine! The last 2D gaming niche ... if you like 2D games, buy one, last place where you will see our beloved 2D platformer!
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Old 07 March 2002, 19:16   #56
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GBA is Great, there are so many 2d Amiga/Retro games on the cards...

can't wait for Robocod

must admit, i've only got 3 games...

mario kart (retro)
thprs2 (not retro)
golden sun (retro)
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Old 07 March 2002, 22:52   #57
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Get Warioland Advance. Its awesome. And I haven t tried Sonic Advance, but it seems to be great

I've got Mario Kart, F-Zero, Warioland and castlevania. All brilliant. All retro-feelin
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