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Old 01 March 2002, 03:23   #21
APFelon
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Hrm. So it's like BMW getting out of the automobile business to refine gasoline, and still calling itself "BMW". Those people who were loyal to the brand will buy the gasoline simply because it is BMW and must be "good" in some way because it is manufactured by BMW.

But wait. BMW isn't actually BMW. BMW was sold off to a group that ran it into the ground, who in turn sold it to Saab who then liscenced the name and property rights to a group who wanted to use the name to refine gasoline.

I think I understand.
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Old 01 March 2002, 06:23   #22
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@Galahad:

I would never dare to defend AmigaDE (i'd get flamed to death but I guess you're
in the position to do so

That's exactly the way I see it too..

@APFelon:

>> Aiming for current Amiga users and those users who have left the fold over
>> the last few years almost insures unprofitability. However, this is simply
>> Amiga INC. (and their advocates) being consistant- Aim low.

No. It doesn't make sense to aim for the masses with "just another desktop
OS". BeOS/QNX tried that and failed. You can't compete in terms of hardware (as
Galahad pointed out), and most people think they actually *need* Windows nowadays.
And even if one of those who don't think so asks me why he should switch to
AmigaOS, what should I answer ?

"It's ressource efficient" ? -> he laughs and strokes his 300 GB HD, 80x DVD,
4 Ghz Wintel box

"it's completely modular, very easy to control and understand" ? -> "I'm no geek,
why should I care ?"

"it's real fun to code for it ?" -> see above

And then he asks me if there's a port of "DJMagixxxExtremeHipTrackerWannabe" available.

Well, you get the idea. Therefore, AmigaOS4 is aimed *only* at geeks, ex-users and the
like at the moment. There are developers, publishers, traders that need to make money,
a community that needs to survive. That's what OS4 is for - and it's still the same OS
I used (nearly) ten years ago to create professional Scala presentations for a friends
shop display, still the same SBase4 pro that another friend used to maintain his shop
inventory at that time. To me, the Amiga always was about more than "just" games.

The tool to conquer the mass market is AmigaDE, I think Galahad gave a pretty good
description why DE actually is such a good concept.
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Old 01 March 2002, 21:26   #23
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Hmmm

Quote:
Hrm. So it's like BMW getting out of the automobile business to refine gasoline, and still calling itself "BMW". Those people who were loyal to the brand will buy the gasoline simply because it is BMW and must be "good" in some way because it is manufactured by BMW.
Interesting analogy, but not quite getting the point.

The Amiga was a concept that worked. It worked because of a great many things, great design, good hardware, good programs, lean use of memory, good programmers.

The AmigaDE is continuing that concept with lean design but taking the Amiga idealogy further. The Amiga concept was always about getting the most out of the machine, can anyone say in all honesty that software companies get the most out of the PC? They simply don't, and they don't care to. Unless Joe Public starts to question why it is that the same programs for the AmigaDE take up a hell of a lot less resources than the PC/Mac equivalent, then that situation won't change.

Lets just ask some basic questions here that simply require a yes or no answer:

1). You are in business to write software and you have the choice to write in a language that is supported across many platforms and doesn't require major rethinks and rejigs to fit it into a mobile phone unlike the bloat that is C.

Would you consider a system like AmigaDE, YES/NO

2). If the same team could work on the same game instead of being split off to do seperate versions, thus making bugs less likely, gameplay better, game design better.

Would you consider a system like AmigaDE, YES/NO

3). You have bought over $10,000 worth of software, what with licences and what not, your machine is redundant because your motherboard cannot cope with the next generation of processors, which incidentally are not operating very well with your software. If your software could be transported to another machine and run on it provided the environment was the same.

Would you consider a system like AmigaDE, YES/NO

4). Are you happy that you have to keep on spending money on hardware when you really don't feel that your previous graphics card was properly exploited, when a leaner OS system might mean that you would have more use out of your purchases.

Would you consider a system like AmigaDE, YES/NO

5). Are you even remotely interested in having a choice of your future software? People moan about Microsoft having intentions to charge people for downloads on the Internet, that they will charge people ongoing licences for their software, much like pay-per-view.

Would you consider a system like AmigaDE, YES/NO

If you think this little questionnaire is a little unfair, lets look at the results of you answering NO to all of the above:

You are happy to have to keep buying more ram and bigger hard drives because programmers can't be arsed to code properly, you can cope with buggy software that crashes or looks like it has been rushed out, you have a bottomless pocket and couldn't care about replacing all that software, you would rather keep up with everyone else than actually use what you pay for, and you haven't learnt any lessons about the collapse of COMMODORE, ATARI, SEGA, IBM etc, etc, these were all 'untouchable' years ago, where the hell are they now??

But probably the biggest indictment of the whole questionnaire is that the question in each line was 'would you CONSIDER a system like AmigaDE', and you answered NO to each one........ means that even with compelling evidence, YOU WOULD NOT EVEN CONSIDER the prospect, is quite possibly more sad!

Frankly, I find it quite amusing that some people (like me years ago) think so avidly as the Amiga as being a blitter, a 4channel soundchip, AmigaDOS, 4096 colours, that they cannot possibly CONSIDER it as being more than that!

The fact that Nokia is showing an interest is VERY good news for Amiga and for the machine you all love. They were the ONLY mobile phone company NOT to lose money last year and are by far the biggest in the world. Anything that heightens the profile of AmigaDE, will also profile the Amiga system that you all love.....

Please, no-one take this as an attack on them personally, I took that quote because it kinda said it all, that some people cannot possibly conceive of the Amiga as being anything other than what it was....

.... and what it was was a great concept, that has been re-invented for a new world..... the world of computing will NEVER be the same, if Amiga Inc tried to produce a machine like the original designers did in 1983, christ.... I doubt this message board would even exist!

Again, my two pence worth, feel free to flame me/argue with me/hate me/.... I still love the Amiga, its just that the Amiga HAS to change to succeed.... at the moment, no-one on here has given any compelling reason what the alternative should be.
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Old 02 March 2002, 00:16   #24
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I think we talk about two different things here.

1) AmigaOne.

2) AmigaDE

I never mentioned the AmigaDE (Or is it OE? I always get confused)in any of my posts, I was particularly talking about AmigaOne...

What I mean, in brief, is that Amiga Inc. have, IMO, NOTHING to do with the Amiga I own and love. They just want to cash in using the Amiga brand. I'll quote Korodny:

Quote:
Amiga users are willing to pay for software (some of them, sometimes). Linux users aren't, that's why there's practically no commercial software available for them. Sales figures for games ported from Windows are actually *higher* on AmigaOS than on Linux.
Who else wouldn't want such a community on their side? You could describe this as clever, and it is, but I don't like that kind of stuff. It's very Microsoft-y :P

The claims of "a new Amiga computer coming our way", or "Amiga's back" drive me crazy. Accept it people. Amiga is no longer a COMPUTER, the Amiga is NOT BACK. Because this is a new thing, as Galahad said. It evolved onto sometihng else.

I'll surely be trying out the AmigaDE (isn't it the same concept as Sun's ill-fated JavaOS? That's a concept which I LIKE A LOT), but I'm not buying no AmigaOne. I'm buying a Powermac G4 instead

Galahad, I have one question: how does Nokia's announcement benefits the scene around my 'old' A1200?

It might be 'obsolete' hardware, but I get more kicks out of it than out of any PC you can chuck me. And that, I support
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Old 02 March 2002, 01:07   #25
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Akira's question

Quite simple my friend. Most peoples experiences of the Amiga are very positive. With Nokia on board, more people are likely to take Amiga very much more seriously.

What would that do for the A12oo? Quite easy really, Amiga Inc will have enough money to ensure that OS4 isn't the only thing they do for 68oXo Amiga's, because they will have the cash to continue supporting the classic Amiga. After all, one of the only reasons they are doing business at all is because of the still quite strong strength that Amiga owners have.

If not, then Amiga would have been dead in the water!

It can only be a good thing my friend
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Old 02 March 2002, 06:29   #26
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If what you say comes true, it'd be nice. But the way I see those bastards, I'm almost sure they won't spend a buck in legacy hardware. We'll see what happens. If they do spend the cash they earn from real Amigans, on real Amigas, then I'll shut my mouth and eat ten Boing ball logos for breakfast. I will!
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Old 02 March 2002, 17:18   #27
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@Akira:

>> I think we talk about two different things here.
>>
>> 1) AmigaOne.
>>
>> 2) AmigaDE

These are different things *at the moment*. With OS5, both will get merged. Imagine
the AmigaOS you know being completely hardware agnostic and you look at the concept
of OS5 (well, nearly ).

>> Who else wouldn't want such a community on their side? You could describe this as
>> clever, and it is, but I don't like that kind of stuff. It's very Microsoft-y :P

Amiga Inc. lost money with OS 3.9. And they won't make money from OS 4. They bought
the Amiga name because of the developers, not because of the users. And the developers
(well, most of them), would be quite happy if DE takes off.

>> The claims of "a new Amiga computer coming our way", or "Amiga's back" drive me
>> crazy. Accept it people. Amiga is no longer a COMPUTER, the Amiga is NOT BACK. Because
>> this is a new thing, as Galahad said. It evolved onto sometihng else.
[snip]
>> but I'm not buying no AmigaOne. I'm buying a Powermac G4 instead

Interesting. So a Mac is still a Mac, though it uses completely different, off-the-shelve
hardware (with a completely different processor) and a completely different OS than all the
Macs that were around a few years ago ?

But an AmigaOne is no Amiga, even it uses the same OS that is around for 17 years now ?
If Commodore would still be around, do you think their latest Amiga offerings would be half
as powerful as an AmigaOne, if they would have continued to use custom chips ?

Something like the A500 will never happen again. There will never be a hardware that is so
far ahead of its competition like the Amiga was in 1985. If you think "Amiga" is a synonym for
"beating the crap out of your competitors", the Amiga is dead.

But IMHO, "Amiga" is about a certain way of "computing" (attention: stupid phrase alert) that
Amiga Technology's marketing division described as "Elegance through efficiency". And an
AmigaOne will still give me that experience. The hardware available today is excellent, it's
the software (OS and applications) that makes the difference.

>> Galahad, I have one question: how does Nokia's announcement benefits the scene around my
>> 'old' A1200?

(The following may sound a bit rude, but there's no offence intended) Why should Amiga Inc.
support you ? Do you support them (or other Amiga developers) ? Did you *buy* your Kickstart
ROMs ? Did you pay your Picasso96 shareware fee ? What was the last software you bought for
your Amiga (apart from used games and the like at E-Bay) ?

Blame the society, not Amiga Inc. for the way the system works
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Old 02 March 2002, 19:14   #28
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Step by step, we take this

Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
These are different things *at the moment*. With OS5, both will get merged. Imagine the AmigaOS you know being completely hardware agnostic and you look at the concept of OS5 (well, nearly ).
How would they 'merge'? You just said AmigaDE is hardware agnostic (true), so why are you tying it up to a hardware spec like AmigaOne?

Quote:
Amiga Inc. lost money with OS 3.9. And they won't make money from OS 4. They bought the Amiga name because of the developers, not because of the users. And the developers
(well, most of them), would be quite happy if DE takes off.
Ok, let's say you are right, you are a dev after all But dont tell me they didnt buy it because of the user community too. You said it yourself in that post.

Quote:
Interesting. So a Mac is still a Mac, though it uses completely different, off-the-shelve hardware (with a completely different processor) and a completely different OS than all the Macs that were around a few years ago ?
But an AmigaOne is no Amiga, even it uses the same OS that is around for 17 years now ?
The Macs of today, have compatibility with the Macs of back then (I don't need it anyway because I have a 68k Mac, and as any emulation, it's not 100% compatible). The AmigaOne is not compatible with old Amiga stuff, unless you hook up a 1200 to it (in that case, why the feck would I want compatibility if I have a real Amiga?). I might as well use UAE and be ridded with incompatibilities.
The fact that I'm buying a PMac G4 is that I can use MacOS 9 and MacOS X for my work, and I can install AmigaDE atop of it. I don't need to buy a computer just to run AmigaDE, as you say, AmigaDE is hardware agnostic, so why should I buy the AmigaOne if the computer I have (or plan to buy) complies with the AmigaOne specification? I see no point in buying it. Besides, I can't work with it. The software I need is just not available for AmigaDE, and will never be (too commercial)

Quote:
If Commodore would still be around, do you think their latest Amiga offerings would be half
as powerful as an AmigaOne, if they would have continued to use custom chips ?
Man, I'm not discussing this. It's obvious that you can't do that on the computer world anymore. If you want to use custom chips and a fixed hardware spec, you have to make a console.

Quote:
Something like the A500 will never happen again. There will never be a hardware that is so far ahead of its competition like the Amiga was in 1985. If you think "Amiga" is a synonym for "beating the crap out of your competitors", the Amiga is dead.
That's what I said. Amiga, as I know it, has been dead for long. Amiga to me is more than just a way of computing, and a concept of how things work, it's also how the hardware was built, and the machines themselves. It's a machine that still amazes me. I know the AmigaDE will give the Amiga feel to any machine, but I repeat my question: why should I buy an AmigaOne motherboard when the machine I have is perfectly AmigaDE compliant???

Quote:
Why should Amiga Inc. support you ? Do you support them (or other Amiga developers) ? Did you *buy* your Kickstart ROMs ? Did you pay your Picasso96 shareware fee ? What was the last software you bought for your Amiga (apart from used games and the like at E-Bay) ?
I'd say I bought my Amiga ROMs, because they were inside the computer I bought. I do not use Picasso96, so I have to pay no shareware fee, and the last software I bought for my Amiga was a game on eBay, yes, but what did you want me to buy, if I bought an A1200 two weeks ago? I was going to buy Apano Sin, but I dont know what happened to that game. And now that I got a 1200 (and an expanded one, weee!), I am experiencing a LOT of new programs that I WILL get registered (WHDLoad, Eagleplayer, Miami, IBrowse, to name but a FEW). As I said, I quit keeping up-to-date with Amiga stuff in 1997.

You just don't know me, I am the kind of guy who is willing to fork out cash in preordering games that are in development, for strange platforms (like Metal Dust for the C64 SCPU), so they get developed. I DO support the platforms I like, despite of what you think. And I'm buying t-zero, now that I have the needed hardware. Isn't clickboom an Amiga developer?

Nevertheless, I don't support Amiga Inc., I always said I don't. And I don't want them to support me. I was just asking Galahad the relation between Amiga Inc. and legacy hardware

I hope you keep on helping me with my A1200 concerns, despite of my hatred against the AmigaOne (I repeat, NOT against the AmigaDE) and Amiga Inc.
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Old 04 March 2002, 00:34   #29
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@Akira:

>> How would they 'merge'? You just said AmigaDE is hardware agnostic (true), so why
>> are you tying it up to a hardware spec like AmigaOne?

The original plan was to drop AmigaOS completely. AmigaDE can run both hosted (on top
of another OS - just imagine WinUAE and you get the concept) or native (being the only
OS running on the computer). Currently AmigaDE can run hosted on Linux, Win32, WinCE,
Symbios (plus a few others) and native on embedded devices (like PDAs).

But creating a native version for desktops proved to be impractical at the moment, due
to different reasons:

1. AmigaDE is based on Tao's Intent Technology. Intent is targeted at embeded devices,
not at the desktop - it lacks Memory Protection and Virtual Memory which are pretty
essential for a desktop OS. Tao refuses to implement these features at the moment.

2. Amiga Inc. is/was extremely low on money. Their employees didn't get paid for
several months last year. Developing/selling/supporting a desktop OS requires a
lot of ressources and money (given the state of the x86 market, with zillions of
different hardware configurations).

So they thought about it and came up with the following solution:

1. We already have a good desktop OS (AmigaOS), let's continue development on this one.

2. Once AmigaOS is up to date again, we will integrate AmigaDE transparently into
AmigaOS.

3. Final step (once we have the ressources available and DE gained a significant market
share): We will combine the best elements of AmigaDE (platform agnostic, "compile once,
run everywhere", scalability) with AmigaOS4 (good hardware abstraction layer, Virtual
Memory, Memory Protection, driver support for modern hardware) to form "AmigaOS 5".

AmigaOS4 is a "path". It is used to ensure the community (users, developers, traders,
the infrastructure in general) won't be dead by the time Amiga Inc. aims at the general
desktop market again. And it is used to implement technologies (e.g. Virtual Memory, or
drivers for modern 3D hardware) that is not needed (yet) for AmigaDE.

Now back to the AmigaOne:

The original concept looked like this:

- any of the following processors: x86, PPC, MIPS, Alpha, StrongARM
- runs AmigaDE natively

There's no native desktop version of AmigaDE yet, so the specs now look like this:

- PPC processor
- runs AmigaOS natively (which will have AmigaDE integrated later on)

AmigaDE is not "tied" to the AmigaOne. You can aswell run it on top of Windows or Linux
(there is *no* MacOS version btw.). It just won't run natively on desktop computers for
the next 1-2 years.

>> Ok, let's say you are right, you are a dev after all But dont tell me they didnt buy it
>> because of the user community too. You said it yourself in that post.

In commercial terms, the current community (the users, not the developers) is not worth any
efforts. You can't "rip them off" or something: Amino paid five million dollars to get the
rights on the Amiga brand name. You'll never make this kind of money by selling products
to classic Amiga users (or by selling OS4, licensing "AmigaOne" trademarks etc.).

>> The Macs of today, have compatibility with the Macs of back then (I don't need it anyway
>> because I have a 68k Mac, and as any emulation, it's not 100% compatible).
>> The AmigaOne is not compatible with old Amiga stuff, unless you hook up a 1200 to it

Wrong. An AmigaOne is compatible with old stuff, as long as that old stuff doesn't hit the
hardware directly. An AmigaOne will run Sas/C, Sbase4, Digibooster or Wordworth. But it won't
run Giana Sisters or Turrican if you don't have an A1200 attached.

It's *still the same OS*, just ported to PPC. AmigaOS4 comes with a pretty decent JIT 68k
emulator.

>> I don't need to buy a computer just to run AmigaDE, as you say, AmigaDE is hardware agnostic,
>> so why should I buy the AmigaOne if the computer I have (or plan to buy) complies with the
>> AmigaOne specification? I see no point in buying it. Besides, I can't work with it. The
>> software I need is just not available for AmigaDE, and will never be (too commercial)

Nobody expects you to buy an AmigaOne. This machine is intended for people who want to use
AmigaOS as their main OS. (btw., expect all AmigaOnes to run MacOS X natively (the Pegasos
already does) and MacOS 9 through really fast emulation (iFusion gets ported to OS4), that's
how *I* will run commercial software that's not available for AmigaOS).

>> That's what I said. Amiga, as I know it, has been dead for long. Amiga to me is more
>> than just a way of computing, and a concept of how things work, it's also how the hardware
>> was built, and the machines themselves. It's a machine that still amazes me.

I agree that a "classic" Amiga is an exciting piece of hardware (and of course they still
amaze me), but to me it's more (i.e. the OS). I guess we won't agree on that one

>>>> Why should Amiga Inc. support you ? [snip]

>> You just don't know me,
[snip]

Okay, I admitt that was a cheap attempt

>> I was just asking Galahad the relation between Amiga Inc. and legacy hardware

There's a connection between Amiga Inc. and AmigaOS. There's no connection between Amiga
Inc. and legacy hardware (thank god!).

>> I hope you keep on helping me with my A1200 concerns, despite of my hatred against
>> the AmigaOne (I repeat, NOT against the AmigaDE) and Amiga Inc.

Hey, we're just having some decent argument, that's one of my preferred activities
No need to get worried
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Old 04 March 2002, 01:00   #30
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Quote:
Wrong. An AmigaOne is compatible with old stuff, as long as that old stuff doesn't hit the
hardware directly. An AmigaOne will run Sas/C, Sbase4, Digibooster or Wordworth. But it won't
run Giana Sisters or Turrican if you don't have an A1200 attached.
I still think this is not an appropriate way of supporting old software. As far as I know, A1200 motherboard is not being manufactured anymore so how many of them are left now? Or how many of them will be available in five years. Hardware dies with time thus availability of an A1200 is getting lower. Maybe I can't precisely express my point. Maybe there is no point but I'm getting extremely paranoid about that Unless a 100% classic amiga compatible hardware is manufactured, classic amiga will remain dead. How much can you emulate? There are always something emulators cannot do. I can't use AGA demos with UAE at full speed even with JIT!

I'm aware that amiga is low on cash but nothing would be different for classic amiga users if amiga had a lot of money anyway. I'm not supporting a company just because they have the copyright of Amiga. Amiga inc, beware there's a mad Turk watching your every step.

Last edited by Burseg; 04 March 2002 at 01:05.
 
Old 04 March 2002, 01:15   #31
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I must add, I'm perfectly aware that backwards compatibility should not slow down future development of Amiga (or whatever it is) if there is some kind of future.
 
Old 04 March 2002, 02:04   #32
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This is a fascinating thread and very educational even to us old-schoolers. As I read through each post, something occured to me: this board needs an FAQ explaining the differences between all of these terms that mike confuse some users. The terms I am referring to are AmigaDE, Amiga One, Amiga Inc., AmigaOS4, AmigaOS5, Amiga Inc., PPC, AIAB, Amiga Forever, etc.

Imagine the scenario of an old ex-Amiga user wanting to return to the scene, either to run fav apps, play old games, develop, do old-school stuff, or to return to the Amiga as a native user. It could be very confusing getting up to date with all that has happened, all that is happening, and all that is proposed for the future. Even I get a little lost when reading about so many Amiga models in development and which is which. Just an FAQ that explains what the differences are would be an invaluable reference and this board is the perfect place for such a reference guide. Preferably an unbiased one that just details specs and such, but even an opinionated one would be better than none at all.

Korodny, you seem like the perfect person to author such a FAQ, but since my head is spinning from so much information, I may not even be the best person to make such a call. Any other thoughts on this?
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Old 04 March 2002, 02:09   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Korodny, you seem like the perfect person to author such a FAQ, but since my head is spinning from so much information, I may not even be the best person to make such a call. Any other thoughts on this?
As long as Korodny stop's pressing enter while his sentance's are in mid
flow

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Old 04 March 2002, 03:23   #34
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@Burseg:

>> I still think this is not an appropriate way of supporting old software.

You lot never gave me a valid reason why old software should be
supported at all...

Certainly not for games. I mean, it's a nice bonus if I can play my old
favourites on an AmigaOne, but I wouldn't dream of *demanding* it from a
hardware manufacturer...

There's very few software (I'm speaking about applications) that is still
"useful" today. People that still want to use these applications (e.g. Scala)
already have a classic Amiga (chances are that this is a A1200, and if not,
they still could use their classic Amiga as a standalone machine...)

>> As far as I know, A1200 motherboard is not being manufactured anymore so
>> how many of them are left now? Or how many of them will be available in
>> five years. Hardware dies with time thus availability of an A1200 is
>> getting lower.

That's sad, but is that a reason that Amiga Inc. provides new compatible
hardware for the rest of their lifetime, even if there's nobody producing
software for it anymore?

Do you blame Nintendo that the GameCube doesn't play old NES titles?

>> Unless a 100% classic amiga compatible hardware is manufactured, classic
>> amiga will remain dead.

It is dead. AmigaOne is no classic Amiga, it's the next generation of Amigas.

>> I'm aware that amiga is low on cash but nothing would be different for
>> classic amiga users if amiga had a lot of money anyway. I'm not supporting
>> a company just because they have the copyright of Amiga.

Nobody asks you to support Amiga Inc.
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Old 04 March 2002, 03:39   #35
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I think we have to discuss what "amiga" is before discussing amiga inc. To me, it's the machine standing on my desk with it's os. and after commodore's death, it's presence is slowly fading. Now AmigaOS is being transformed into a new concept. In the end there will be nothing but a concept of "Amiga" that has no relevance with that machine.

I'm mainly talking about games because many self booting games have nothing to do with AmigaOS but they are directly related with the machine standing on my desk (will be called as "my miggy"from now on ) "Amiga",with it's custom chips, runs them and that's a solid fact.

Quote:
Do you blame Nintendo that the GameCube doesn't play old NES titles?
Come on, N64 and nes are consoles and this is totally irrelevant.

After all, it's pretty obvious that amiga hardware cannot be manufactured and marketed the way it could 15 years ago, but the direction Amiga inc has taken will make them a big software company with the name "Amiga" and this name will not have -anything- in common with my miggy therefore it will ruin what is left of Amiga. If it is dead and cannot be revived the way it deserves, it must rest.
 
Old 04 March 2002, 03:42   #36
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Tahnks for the explanation, now I know why you related the two I still disagree with the compatibility thing.... lots of apps (not games) hit the hardware directly, like DPaint (invaluable to me)..

Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
You lot never gave me a valid reason why old software should be supported at all...
I dont think the lot of current Amiag users dont use ANY old software, even less games. Theysurely play, they love them Amiga games! A product that has the Amiga brand, should support all that stuff. never forget your roots!
But if it cant be done... whatever.. It doesnt change my point of view anyway
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Old 04 March 2002, 03:58   #37
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Anyone knows this amiga -without- AmigaOS? It has unix installed yet it is an Amiga, there is no doubt. But AmigaOne's -amiga identity- is a lot doubtful.

By the way, there are people developing software that work on a classic amiga, just check aminet.
 
Old 04 March 2002, 05:20   #38
APFelon
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny

Nobody asks you to support Amiga Inc. [/B]
After dealing with Gary "(*Censored*)-face" Peake, there is no danger of me supporting Amiga INC. The AmigaOne could shoot free beer from it's i/o ports and I wouldn't touch it if I were in the middle of an alcohol withdrawl-induced foammouth seizurefest.

I know this isn't relevant to what is being discussed, but I had to get that off of my mind.
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Old 04 March 2002, 07:12   #39
Korodny
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@Twisting Ghost:

>> Korodny, you seem like the perfect person to author such a FAQ, but since
>> my head is spinning from so much information, I may not even be the best
>> person to make such a call. Any other thoughts on this?

I'd be glad to compile such a FAQ, if there's demand for it.

@Ian:

>> As long as Korodny stop's pressing enter while his sentance's are in mid
>> flow

I'm sorry, but I guess you'll have to live with that I'm using CygnusEd
to edit my replies, as AWeb's text field editor is somewhat limited (to say
the least) and text editors have that annoying habbit of ending a line with
a CR .

@Burseg, Akira:

Your point of view is "It has custom chips, therefore it's an Amiga", my
point of view is "It runs AmigaOS natively, therefore it's an Amiga". We
won't agree on that one, I'm afraid

@Akira:

>> I still disagree with the compatibility thing.... lots of apps (not games)
>> hit the hardware directly, like DPaint (invaluable to me)..

That's why you can attach an A1200 to your AmigaOne The AmigaOne+A1200
combination will certainly be as compatible with old stuff as my current
Amiga (A1200PPC, 64MB, GfxCard) - and it *will* be able to boot non-DOS
games from disk.

Name Apps that are *not* hopelessely outdated and require the custom chips.
I know three: Dpaint, Brilliance (mainly for their animation features) and
Scala. That's about it. Don't yell "VideoToaster" at me, as that would
require Zorro slots (and analog video editing is *really* yesterday's
technology).

Btw. If you like DPaint, check PersonalPaint (*should* run on an AmigaOne)
or PerfectPaint (Aminet), which is a brilliant freeware DPaint clone.
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Old 04 March 2002, 10:12   #40
utri007
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I haven't heard Apple people said that thei computer isn't mac anymore.....

First they move to 680x0 cpus to PPCs, all old apps was emulated.

second they build new OS with UNIX and Acrobat reader. and again....

Allright not a same thing but...

Anyway I glad to see some kind of reborn of amiga I wouldn't care even if it joke compared 5 year old Macs and PCs, based Coldfire cpus or something like that. (Coldfire=somekind 68080)

It's still Amiga (officially) and Amiga is my hoppy

But guys this is not a serious thing so ...

I really like read differen opinions and I don't try to change anybody mind.
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