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Old 28 January 2008, 17:37   #61
niobyte
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Regarding the HOL having watermarks. Why is this such an issue anyway. Whoever contributed the screenshots, boxscans, etc. Has the scans they created in the first place.

Maybe as a backup feature eventually the HOL could have an online back-end that whoever contributed scans in the past can view them through the HOL un-watermarked.

Although, the HOL scans especially the Boxscans and Miscshots are not at their original size or resolution anyway. They have been resized and JPEG compressed which is a lossy format so it is of no means going to replace the original boxes when printing them through a printer, lol.

I think the watermarking is a good way of making the database genuine so that other sites can put the effort in and make their own scans rather than rip them and claim them as their own.

Although, if I was a casual viewer of HOL and did not own anything then it could be a bit of a pain. I think the screenshots for games in this case are for preview purposes so why should it matter. You could always load up the game and play it yourself anyway if you own it or find a duplicate copy through TOSEC or something. What is the big deal in that.

Think about it, the majority of Game indexing sites watermark all of their information so that the project remains genuine, also if the project is copied may result with information that is not accurate anyway and would require constant updating.

If anything if duplicated Game Database sites now rip the HOL content and have kept the watermark in-tact is a good way of making people interested finding out about the Hall of Light website instead.
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Old 28 January 2008, 18:15   #62
sarek2k
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is a simple way round all these arguements no matter how well argued or defended from either side.

if you don't like the watermarks don't use HOL
if you don't mind the watermarks then use HOL

i for one will choose the former.

There everyone's happy!
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Old 28 January 2008, 18:55   #63
Belgarath
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Your choice

Your loss
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Old 03 May 2008, 13:51   #64
Avanze
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Now I am in the right thread. Anyway, I really think watermarking is a bad idea. I guess all big scan databases face the same problem of plagiarism, but other sites like SMS Power do not have watermarks and I think neither should HOL. Perhaps if this is a serious problem some amicable arrangement can be made? How about free memeber sign up to HOL which would enable watermark free downloads of box scans?
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Old 03 May 2008, 15:53   #65
Arnie
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Well all i can say is that in my opinion the watermarks are hardly visible and therefore dose not bother me at all.
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Old 03 May 2008, 16:00   #66
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IMO I don't see what difference it makes unless you plan on ripping the screenshots off!

Like Cody said if anyone wants some specific unmarked screenies.. just ask!
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Old 03 May 2008, 17:07   #67
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I was going to suggest as much bippym, I cannot believe someone that openly states he contributed absolutely nothing to the project is that bothered about it.

When I read these threads sometimes I have to go and look at a game to see if I've become blind to the big intrusive watermarks on all the images. Either they simply don't exist or my eyes are playing up.
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Old 03 May 2008, 23:39   #68
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Just a quick comment on the exotica "banner". The point was not to stop people from stealing, but perhaps just discourage or encourage them to give credit. Anyway, the gallery area on our new site is now watermark/banner free. If people want to use the images then why not. After all, it is a preservation project. I think hol should do the same. I also think hol should have a "download database" button.
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Old 12 May 2008, 15:39   #69
dlfrsilver
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My idea on this since i contributed, is that i just can't agree with people making money when we did scans, screens, and all FOR FREE. we are doing non profit-activity because we do not own the graphic arts of the games, and some people are selling the scans we did. I'm not doing this for free to see people making money on my back. I'm sure many contributors will feel the same.

I don't personally claims anything any ownership, but no way to money-makers.

don't you guys ?
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Old 12 May 2008, 15:48   #70
TCD
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Recently joined the team and did some screens since.
I also believe that a watermark is no problem, since the screens are there to give a better impression of the game. If someone likes to use screens for any reason (not included money-making) he/she could kindly ask.
The point about selling screens or using them to sell things is the reason to use watermarks.
Anyway it's not so hard to make screens yourself and then use them for whatever you like .
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Old 12 May 2008, 16:02   #71
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The upside to this is screens that are watermarked on ebay etc.. will ultimately attract more users to HOL!
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Old 12 May 2008, 16:16   #72
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I'm not sure there is much money to be made from this. If it is legal to watermark them, then I guess it's also legal to license them under a copyleft license. Not that it would stop some people, but neither with a watermark. I believe in the preservation of this great artwork, which means making it available to others to enjoy - and I think the watermark is unnecessary. I also hope that people will contribute more artwork to the new exotica wiki ;-)
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Old 12 May 2008, 16:31   #73
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If people really want these images then they can ask.. but for a site to steal them and use them on a similar database is wrong!

If a person wants to go to the trouble of setting something like that up then surely they have the knowledge or intelligence to run winuae and do their own work!

I think screenshot packs are a good idea, but someone must request them!
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Old 12 May 2008, 17:33   #74
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Quote:
but for a site to steal them and use them on a similar database is wrong
.

Not sure i agree this is stealing. You could work for the RIAA ;-)

However, if the true purpose is for preservation, I think that use of work on multiple websites should be fine. Just make sure attribution is given (which most of the time isn't a big problem). I see no problem sharing data between projects. I don't see how the watermark is really that relevant to this argument, as I believe it goes against the nature/ideologies of data preservation projects/
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Old 12 May 2008, 17:41   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuZz View Post
...I don't see how the watermark is really that relevant to this argument, as I believe it goes against the nature/ideologies of data preservation projects/

Preservation is one thing and what's presented on the website is another . Of course there are versions without the watermark. But why shouldn't there be credit to those who first put them on the web?
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Old 12 May 2008, 18:08   #76
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HOL is more an information portal on Amiga games as opposed to a data preservation site!

Let's face it what data is being preserved that cannot be found in 20 years using adf's or ipf's??
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Old 12 May 2008, 18:18   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bippym View Post
Let's face it what data is being preserved that cannot be found in 20 years using adf's or ipf's??

Diskshots, Boxshots, Miscshots and so on. Everything that is not screens. But I also think it's mainly a informative site, not a preservation attempt.
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Old 12 May 2008, 19:03   #78
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SPS is preservation, Hol images (Box scans, disk scans etc) are too low quality to be considered preservation!
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Old 12 May 2008, 19:33   #79
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owning artworks (material) and scan them (sort of a service) must be departed.

watermarking doesn't refer to the material aspect, but to the service. It just shows where it comes from. And i agree 100% with bippym, upside is that more people come to see HOL.

What allow us to do what we are doing with games, so that the games owners don't pursue us, is that we don't make money with their properties, in the contrary, we would be pursued or forced to close.

you bet all this apply to people trying to steal the work done to sell.

Which is not allowed by legal holders ; Watermarking is even maybe protecting us from owners which could ask removal of box scans.
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Old 12 May 2008, 20:00   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
But why shouldn't there be credit to those who first put them on the web?
I never argued against this. I said attribution should be given (And is as such with many copyleft licenses). I just don't see the relevance with watermarks and this. If people are going to take the artwork anyway, I doubt the watermark will be a big deterrent, but it does in my opinion make the artwork less enjoyable, and it feels wrong to put some "branding" over the top of someone elses image/art without their consent.
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