English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Apps

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 09 December 2007, 13:03   #1
Bloodwych
Moderator

Bloodwych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'm behind you!
Posts: 3,763
Hidden, Pure file attributes

Does anyone know what these actually do in Workbench?

The other attributes seem to have a purpose, but what's the point of these two?

Will it cause any issues disabling all hidden and pure attributes using "protect"?
Bloodwych is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 09 December 2007, 13:29   #2
Duke
HOL-Team
Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Age: 37
Posts: 519
Send a message via ICQ to Duke Send a message via Skype™ to Duke
Pure means the file can be made resident, H is actually "Hold" and not "Hidden" and means that the file can be made resident on first load if P is set too.
Duke is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 13:39   #3
Bloodwych
Moderator

Bloodwych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'm behind you!
Posts: 3,763
EDIT: Thanks DUKE!

Ok, I was being lazy I guess. After a bit of searching, I found this:

Quote:
THE AMIGADOS 'HIDDEN' ('h') FILE ATTRIBUTE

The 'hidden' attribute is not used under AmigaDOS; setting it does not cause
files to be hidden from directory listings. In fact, the AmigaDOS 3.1
'protect' command does not recognise the 'h' bit.

THE AMIGADOS 'PURE' ('p') FILE ATTRIBUTE

The 'pure' attribute indicates that the file is residentable and re-entrant,
and can be made resident with the AmigaDOS 'resident' command, or equivalent
command if operating under a different shell.
Now I know OS3.9 only uses hidden, or hold if Duke is right.

"Pure" seems pointless, as you can make something that's not marked resident "resident" anyway. Workbench 3.0 seems to use it, but it looks like it was done away with on Workbench 3.1 and above. Just like the executable flag - Workbench 3.0 used it to mark libs and other files without icons as projects, while 3.1 and above just makes everything +RWED and therefore if it doesn't have an icon it's identified as a tool.

So, can I disable these attributes globally on a Workbench install and not have any problems?

In other words would making all files +RWED -HP result in any issues?
Bloodwych is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 14:59   #4
ppill
CON: artist
ppill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Poland
Age: 36
Posts: 1,157
Send a message via Skype™ to ppill
I think some programs check the PURE protection bit, like the 'resident' command which has a FORCE (same as PURE) option to load files that don't have it set.

Should this cause any troubles? Nahh
ppill is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 15:21   #5
Bloodwych
Moderator

Bloodwych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'm behind you!
Posts: 3,763
I've just tried it and on Workbench 2.0 and above, the "resident" command couldn't care less about the pure flag. No warnings or anything.

In Workbench 1.3, the resident command complains if the pure flag is not set but it can be forced. Perhaps the "pure" attribute is a throwback to 1.3 and no longer used in 2.0 and above?

"Hold" I'm still clueless on, even after Dukes explanation - does disabling it do anything? I just made every file on a OS3.9 install +RWED and -HP. Didn't seem to affect anything.
Bloodwych is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 15:28   #6
Duke
HOL-Team
Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Age: 37
Posts: 519
Send a message via ICQ to Duke Send a message via Skype™ to Duke
Well your workbench might be slower and need more HD accesses if there were any files with +HP set.
Duke is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 15:58   #7
Bloodwych
Moderator

Bloodwych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'm behind you!
Posts: 3,763
I did an experiment on this and setting +HP vs -HP doesn't seem to affect memory usage or automatically make something resident on first load to reduce hard disk access.

I'm trying to understand the purpose of each file attribute and its significance in Workbench 3.0 to 3.9. The others are self-explanatory and the script flag allows a text script to be launched without using execute.

Last edited by Bloodwych; 09 December 2007 at 16:06.
Bloodwych is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 19:06   #8
ppill
CON: artist
ppill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Poland
Age: 36
Posts: 1,157
Send a message via Skype™ to ppill
Maybe this quote from USENET will help:

comp.sys.amiga.programmer
d...@uow.edu.au (David Tritscher)
1998/03/06
Re: PROGDIR:

Quote:
Resident programs sit in the dos resident list, accessible by users
with the 'resident' command. There is no low memory handler so once
your program has found it's way to the resident list, it's there till
you use 'resident REMOVE'.
The 'H' protection bit meant 'hidden' for pre 2.0, then changed to
'hold' for 2.0-3.0 inclusive. This made the _shell_ automatically add
the program to the dos resident list. LoadSeg() WON'T do this for you.
Both the 'P'ure and 'H'old bits must be set for the shell to add the
command to the resident list. I use 3.0 and most of my c: commands have
the hold bit set. This functionality was removed in 3.1 because there
wasn't enough space in the roms.
ppill is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 19:57   #9
Bloodwych
Moderator

Bloodwych's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'm behind you!
Posts: 3,763
ppill I don't know how you found that, but well done!

I just tried it and with a 3.0 ROM and +HP set, the command does indeed automatically become resident once you use it. Setting all the commands to +HP means that any used in the startup-sequence also become resident!

On a 3.1 ROM however, as I found above using OS3.9, +HP makes no difference at all. You need to manually make a command resident regardless of the flags.

In other words, the H and P flags look to be redundant with the 3.1 ROM.
Bloodwych is offline  
Old 09 December 2007, 21:40   #10
ppill
CON: artist
ppill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Poland
Age: 36
Posts: 1,157
Send a message via Skype™ to ppill
http://groups.google.com/ -> "amiga h protection bit" -- I think 10th post down the page. Always look there first. Great resource!

Duke was right It's a bit weird that they run out of space and couldn't include this (+HP) feature.
ppill is offline  
Old 10 December 2007, 00:26   #11
StrategyGamer
Total Chaos AGA is fun!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 873
Can someone make a new ROM with this feature reincluded?
StrategyGamer is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Directory hard drives with full support for file attributes FrodeSolheim support.FS-UAE 4 28 April 2013 04:24
file attributes amiga2 support.Apps 4 26 January 2012 03:34
pure bit not set? amigalizard support.Apps 4 04 September 2005 05:47
Grab It !!!!! It Is Pure History plasmatron Amiga scene 3 15 March 2004 22:08
Best pure DOS emulators!! Bloodwych Retrogaming General Discussion 23 07 July 2003 20:56

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.18695 seconds with 11 queries