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Old 08 October 2007, 06:15   #21
Zetr0
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This is an amusing thread

(dont worry P-J i will keep it short )

@Charlie

That linux kernal explanation is spot on in my book... the only thing is you forgot to install the hardware driver support for the toilet... and from that you need to check if the toilet is read for communication.... that would overly complicate the wake up model... but i believe it should be enshrined somewhere...

@Blade002

I have felt, and this is for some time, that a lot of linux officialdom's are quite snooty when it comes to other OS's thrashing a poor yet favoured *NIX distro... but the retard seems to think that a 512 k i l o b y t e ROM is going to do what a 1.2GB NIX install can do... then he's clearly a slobering FAN BOI!
avoid them.... for they can know no other....

strange though he didn`t mention why XP was faster than the latest unBUMtu (ahem sorry .. but it sux!) distro ?

I believe our fellow Amigo Charlie said it correctly as you cantered....

NIX/XP/MAC

Explicit setup platforms....

AOS/QNX/BeOS

On the Fly.... RTOS!

and insofar as memory protection, well for one, no such thing existed for AOS since that hadn't even been developed even in the sever market as such (unless you count redundancy) and for another....

memory protecting half the time is a joke... (and no i wont even pretend to think that any Microsoft product has that ability... well other than panicking!)

I will say that I have witnessed many Linux distros fall flat on their face when the going gets tough with virtual ram.... (admittedly no Amiga could handle that level of abuse however!)

[edit]

sorry P-J.... i lied....
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Old 08 October 2007, 09:28   #22
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Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
@Blade002

I have felt, and this is for some time, that a lot of linux officialdom's are quite snooty when it comes to other OS's thrashing a poor yet favoured *NIX distro... but the retard seems to think that a 512 k i l o b y t e ROM is going to do what a 1.2GB NIX install can do... then he's clearly a slobering FAN BOI!
avoid them.... for they can know no other....

strange though he didn`t mention why XP was faster than the latest unBUMtu (ahem sorry .. but it sux!) distro ?

I believe our fellow Amigo Charlie said it correctly as you cantered....

NIX/XP/MAC

Explicit setup platforms....

AOS/QNX/BeOS

On the Fly.... RTOS!
You seem alot more versed in the Amiga OS than i am Zetro, so maybe some you guys should go onto my thread and give the snobbish prick a pounding with the information you guys know.
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Old 08 October 2007, 11:32   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
I have felt, and this is for some time, that a lot of linux officialdom's are quite snooty when it comes to other OS's thrashing a poor yet favoured *NIX distro... but the retard seems to think that a 512 k i l o b y t e ROM is going to do what a 1.2GB NIX install can do... then he's clearly a slobering FAN BOI!
avoid them.... for they can know no other....
If you read that thread you'll see that isn't the case.

//edit : Was just pointed out to me that this is the largest known case of the pot calling the kettle black ever recorded. I'm going to phone the Guinness Book Of Records people

Last edited by P-J; 08 October 2007 at 19:17.
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Old 08 October 2007, 12:01   #24
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Err.. The linux dude was right on the money..

AmigaOS doesn't do anything much at all when booting up, it just sets up some assigns and starts monitor drivers.

On Unix based OSes the system's bootup scripts do many things.. They start web servers, fileshare servers, audio servers etc. If you start miami from the startup-sequence, it will make your system wait until it has gotten an IP from DHCP (or else thrash your hard disk if you use run). If you start the samba server from startup-sequence, the same will happen.

You can make Linux start quickly if you like and still have the functionality that AmigaOS also provides out of the box, but then it will be tuned for that particular computer only..

The problem with linux distributions is that they must be generic to run on many different configurations of PC. Thus there's a load of probing going on while it's loading and also lots of services get started that not everyone needs, but most do.

So..

Take Gentoo or Debian and install only the needed components that give you the same functionality as a basic workbench installation, and you have a quickly booting linux. You must also configure the system to load only needed modules or compile all the hardware support you need into the kernel, leaving everything else out.

The reason why a Linux web browser or word processor takes a long time to start is because the computer loads tens of megabytes of stuff while starting the program. The software is a lot bigger, among other things due to the amount of features it contains. If you take an ancient browser like netscape 3, it will start a lot faster, since it's only a few megs big.. And you get the same functionality as with AWeb on the Amiga. :-D

He wasn't being snotty because someone is bashing his beloved linux? That was a rather level-headed, but not very thorough explanation why Linux is slower to boot than AmigaOS. Also he mentioned that not all sw is available for the Amiga, that is just a fact. Turn off the stuff unavailable to Amiga from your Linux distro and I'm sure that alone will make it boot a lot faster. :-D

Linux SW was also smaller back in the mid 90s. Try an ancient linux distro on a modern machine and it will be quite fast, yet most your hardware will not be supported.. (perhaps run it in VMWare to have generic-looking hardware)

Last edited by Jope; 08 October 2007 at 12:10.
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Old 08 October 2007, 13:12   #25
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The reason why a Linux web browser or word processor takes a long time to start is because the computer loads tens of megabytes of stuff while starting the program.
Which I will pre-emptively remind people that isn't necessarily a result of 'poor programming' but a result of an astronomical increase in the feature set compared to older apps.
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Old 08 October 2007, 13:26   #26
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Jope:

What you're saying can beboiled down to (when it comes to Linux):
If ALL PC's was running the same CPU, same gfx-card, same NIC and same soundcard, Linux could be made to boot as quickly as AmigaOS?

with "same" I mean the same make, not just model, as I believe an ASUS make are different from MSI, even if both use f.x. nVidia GeForce7800.

Am I right in the assumption?

I do believe though, that the Amiga's ability to be back up in 10sec flat, is very much due to all the builtin hardware are already set up in the KickStart, as opposed to Linux/Windows/MacOSX kernels where the hardware can and will vary from computer to computer, whereas in the Amiga, Denise is always there, same Paula, same with Agnus, Gary on the A4000, and so on.
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Old 08 October 2007, 14:03   #27
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Explained very nicely Jope. Worded like it should be, with no attacks, no snide remarks, so sarcastic undertones. Just explained "properly".

Thank you
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Old 08 October 2007, 14:10   #28
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Explained very nicely Jope. Worded like it should be, with no attacks, no snide remarks, so sarcastic undertones. Just explained "properly".
What, like this?
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Old 08 October 2007, 14:13   #29
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What, like this?
Ummmm.. eeeerrrrrr... aaaarrrrhh... hmmmmm....
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Old 08 October 2007, 15:04   #30
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Yeah... Blade, I agree, SID != Paula
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Old 08 October 2007, 15:05   #31
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Yeah... Blade, I agree, SID != Paula
I am confused ?, you agree with me or the other guy ?.

SID = Paula sounds pretty obvious though, you don't agree with me sniffle, cough, splutter....
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Old 08 October 2007, 15:21   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mindie View Post
What you're saying can beboiled down to (when it comes to Linux):
If ALL PC's was running the same CPU, same gfx-card, same NIC and same soundcard, Linux could be made to boot as quickly as AmigaOS?
Well, actually.. It is possible to write a smart enough installer for Linux distributions that would trim it down to the absolute minimum + only install the drivers you need for ANY generic PC.

However that is a lot of work to write the installer and machines today are fast enough + disks are large enough for them to just bung in everything and let the machine decide on bootup what to use.. Also you lose the portability aspect then, you can't just swap your linux boot drive into a new PC when upgrading hardware, you'd need to reconfigure everything.

Of course the different distros do some selection of what modules to load when installing, but they aren't trimmed to the absolute minimum.

However people like their features. It takes a lot of code/services to make a modern OS with all sorts of desktop integration and intelligent hardware handling happening beneath the glitzy UI.

Gentoo is a good way to get the absolute minimum, low fat linux distro, but it is a lot more involved to set up compared to SUSE or Ubuntu. :-) Also even with Gentoo, it's very easy to pick this and that and well maybe that too and end up with a distro that loads a lot during startup after all the dependencies for your stuff has been compiled in. :-)

However this is a very long subject and way off topic for an Amiga board, perhaps I'll leave it at that. The interwebs are full of Linux info, start with the linux from scratch project or the Gentoo manual to get more understanding what is happening under the hood.
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Old 08 October 2007, 15:22   #33
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I am confused ?, you agree with me or the other guy ?.

SID = Paula sounds pretty obvious though, you don't agree with me sniffle, cough, splutter....
Even I can understand that. He's agreeing with you!

I understood exactly what the Linux guy meant though. Nitpicking when you're the one who asked the question though is like pissing into the wind.
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Old 08 October 2007, 15:38   #34
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I just love when starting the machine takes les than 10 seconds. This
is on MorphOs, but its like the same as AmigaOs..

Fun fun fun
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Old 08 October 2007, 15:49   #35
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Even I can understand that. He's agreeing with you!

I understood exactly what the Linux guy meant though. Nitpicking when you're the one who asked the question though is like pissing into the wind.
Yeah but he wouldn't let go of this grudge which indicates to me he allows his love of Linux to blind him more than my love of the Amiga. At least if ive fucked up, i will admit and apologise, but this guy just loved being a shit all the way to the end.

Anyway, you seem to be a little one sided with this, so i will just leave it at that. End of story, dead in the water, game over, kamikaze.. OVER

Have a nice day and may the fleas of thousands camels infest your hairy armpits ( blade002 says jokingly

Last edited by blade002; 08 October 2007 at 15:54.
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Old 22 October 2007, 01:30   #36
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"The main grunt of the AmigaOS backend runs from ROM - booting from chips is a lot quicker than booting from a hard disk."

Amiga OS4 has no Rom, he simply doesn't know what he talking about.

Also vinyl records sound better than CDs, and DVD-A, and SACD, if they're still going that is.

Assuming you've got a decent record player anyway. Just thought's throw that one in too.
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Old 23 October 2007, 00:44   #37
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Also vinyl records sound better than CDs, and DVD-A, and SACD, if they're still going that is.
Thankfully most people will disagree.
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Old 25 October 2007, 05:49   #38
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An Amiga booting up a Video Toaster 4000 is certainly doing a lot and even it boots very fast. Nothing like the Video Toaster on Linux unless you spend $60,000+!
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Old 13 November 2007, 17:53   #39
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My PeeCee takes almost 5minutes to boot to a usable desktop! and its a 3700 AMD64 as well!
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Old 13 November 2007, 21:47   #40
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My PeeCee takes almost 5minutes to boot to a usable desktop! and its a 3700 AMD64 as well!
Time to investigate nLite.
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