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Old 31 August 2007, 20:44   #41
beanz
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Originally Posted by DDNI View Post

We wont, you can never recapture the buzz, joy and thrill of your first time!!
Hold on for another 20yrs or so when you have VR/Holographic games.
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Old 31 August 2007, 22:48   #42
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Where did I assert 3D was unnecessary?
Sorry

When you've been on this board as long as I have you pre-empt the same old tired arguments. Unfortunately it turns out you weren't going to make that argument
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Old 01 September 2007, 09:55   #43
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Old 06 September 2007, 12:33   #44
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blade002 wrote:

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The problem with PC games is that you can save at ANY time, thus making it easy to just save your way through it every 5 seconds, and although i understand that the size of the game dictates the need for these saves, it makes the game far less of a challenge than any C64 or Amiga game ive played in the past. This dellusion though that constant saving is absolutely necessary in "all" games has been proven to be false in games like Hitman on the PC which i thought was a brilliant game and was a TRUE challenge!!.

Deus-Ex is the kind of game that required saving due to its non linear nature and depth of play, so there are exceptions to the rule ( damn GREAT game too, loved it to bits ), but generally speaking, games have no real challenge now.

( BTW - you may say that if you do not want to save then just dont!. But we are all creatures of habit and we are going to use it, but i would rather be forced not too. )
Yes, this saving "every other second" is the apex of absurdity, I agree. It results in sooo many challengeless games...

There are tactical turnbased games out there where you might have, say, two opportunities to fire during your combat turn, and you can actually save after each and every shot! It's basically lock-n-load, approach enemies, _save_. Now fire and review damage dealt (formula + percentage chance-based). If damage high, _save again_, then take second shot. If damage low, reload save and retake first shot. Rinse/repeat as necessary. This exploit exists even in great games... I mean, reaaallly... this stuff's game-breaking _if_ you abuse it..

In modern realtime games, one seems to grind the trigger button with the one hand, and the save button with the other. You cannot lose, and there is no adrenaline rush.. play Raiden or R-type with one credit, where one hit = death.. that was adrenaline rush. Sure there were some "gifts" to help you get back on your feet, the capital "P" in Raiden, but it was still _damned hard.._ you might never regain supremacy in that playthrough.. many Amiga games were merciless like this..

And yes, Deus Ex is pretty open-ended/non-linear, so saving frequently is forgiveable: walk into some joint with your gun unholstered and the plot-hook changes.. (always played on Realistic or higher, which was pretty damned difficult.) Same with other hardboiled games, where even a dialogue choice could screw you. Played a game once where you had four dialogue choices, yet only one "correct" choice.. Correct meaning, "you select it, your power increases by an order of magnitude"..(no logical reason to select it, it's just chance, lol) ... hence, save before non-combat engagements as well..

I thought Diablo 2 handled saving really well. There was no real point, since a reload would put you back to basecamp, meaning you had to grind through the legionhordes again to get back to the depths of the dungeon. Also in this game dieing is like the worst thing, as it should be. Not only are you whisked back to basecamp, you lose a _cartload_ of gold, and you have to loot your own corpse just to get your items back. That meant grinding through the legionhordes without your "vorpal blade/M1 Abrams armour"... not really a game for the fainthearted... Btw, in the expansion set, they made this game much easier for the newbs.. (e.g., personal chest is bigger so as to hold "backup items"..) hehe....
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Old 11 January 2008, 05:50   #45
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Gameplay?

(Hi all btw)

What's all this gameplay that was so much better on old games? You mean the way the cars in Lotus games just bounced their way from side to side around the track? Or the way the characters in Mega-lo-mania just moved like flies around an area when you placed your map? These were all limitations forced by the machines that programmers don't have to put up with anymore.

You should be thrilled about what we can do now in games! There is lots of indie stuff too thats fun if you get sick of the chart fodder. So many different machines doing innovative things.

The other day I realised just what we have now is what we actually always dreamt about...mobile phones with games on then with hi-res colour screens, thats amazing! Huge *flat* screens. Computers that are beyond the super computers we cood over that did The Last Starfighter and such like. Thin handhelds with dual screens with touch stuff. Its awesome!

I think most of us just miss our youths, our mates and things like that. I love my Amiga so much and every now and then I get it out but for games I am soon reminded why I left it alone and embraced the SNES, tech just moves on.
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Old 11 January 2008, 06:43   #46
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@alanc5

indeed i believe we are living in the golden age of gamming!

Welcome to the EAB, theres plenty of retro-licious mischief to get upto.

so kickback... fire up the emulator or nostalgic inducing device and enjoy the purest chocolate coated retro-dom that this board provides.
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Old 11 January 2008, 15:37   #47
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I want to go back to 1985 when i saw my first Apple IIe and programmed my own game in high school, i want to back to when i got an Atari 2600 for the first time, I want to go back to when i finally got Zaxxon for my CBS Colecovision and it blew my mind, I want to go back to when i first got my C64 and its warm feeling and immersion it gave me, I want to go back to when i first got my Amiga 500 and i felt like the king of the world in its world of atmosphere and its worldwide community, I want to go back to when i first got my Amiga 1200 and i ran my own BBS with a friend when i downloaded and shared so much, whilst sharing my creativity in Dpaint, OctaMED and being totally in love with the games and feelings it all gave me.

I want to go back to when WE PUSHED THE BOUNDARIES !!!!!....

The above mentioned may seem really strange and sad, but to be honest, im being honest.

I understand the sentiment, but I could never go back to the pre-broadband days. Never.
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Old 11 January 2008, 15:54   #48
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I think the games industry at the moment has reached a stalemate.

In the days of Amiga, Megadrive and SNES it was platform games that ruled the roost. Pretty much every other game was a platformer.

Move onto Playstation One and its Tomb Raider and other FPS with adventure elements thrown in.

And all of a sudden, platform games are binned on PS1, and EVERYTHING is FPS or FPSA (arcade).

We are now in 2008, and other than flashier graphics and better effects, the games themselves HAVEN'T moved on. Pretty as Bioshock and Uncharted are, the actual basic gameplay hasn't changed from the games on PS1.

So is this it now? Is this all we are going to get? More of the same?

I don't think its got necessarily anything to do with the Amiga, I think its more the era the machine was born into, that games companies were far more willing to experiment with different genres, but now they are all owned by large corporations, and the cost of games has shot up, they simply don't want to take a chance anymore.

So we'll keep on getting FPS games, and countless versions of Fifa.

I very nearly bought a PS3 yesterday, but decided against it. Not because I couldn't afford it, but simply because other than the graphics being in a higher resolution to my PS2, there simply isn't enough variation. Certainly if you took away some of the graphic trickery away from some of the latest PS3 games, the PS2 could do competant versions.

I'm not paying 44 for a game that PLAYS no differently to anything on PS2, and thats the problem for me.

The future of gaming has never looked so bleak!
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Old 11 January 2008, 16:15   #49
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i think that's a great post Galahad... although you might argue that Tomb raider has more in common with a platformer / adventure like Prince of Persia than it does with any FPS, i think that's by-the-by.

But you've pretty much summed up why i am completely uninterested in the new machines and modern PC-based gaming. Whilst the specs look fine, where are the games to interest -me-? Everyone has different tastes, so i cant be the only one bored of the current (lack of) content that is offered.

The only new console i have is a PSP, and that's largely for emulation on-the-move anyway. LocoRoco is probably the most original / different games for it, and as such is one of only a handful of games i have purchased for the machine since February 2006.
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Old 11 January 2008, 17:08   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanc5 View Post
I think most of us just miss our youths, our mates and things like that. I love my Amiga so much and every now and then I get it out but for games I am soon reminded why I left it alone and embraced the SNES, tech just moves on.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
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Old 11 January 2008, 17:38   #51
Mick_AKA
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Originally Posted by beanz View Post
Hold on for another 20yrs or so when you have VR/Holographic games.
I think you will find sega have done both some considerable ammount of time ago
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Old 11 January 2008, 18:09   #52
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@Galahad/FLT:
I couldn't have put it better.
...but I'll try: (post-count to think of)
The newest console I own is a PS1. When I want fancy GFX I run the PS1 games in ePSXe.
I've got what was a 'kick-ass' water-cooled AthlonXP-M, DFI, bla-bla, PC a few years ago for playing the latest games...
...a few months ago I built a similar 'gaming-rig' to play the current crop. Guess what? I hardy ever use it. The older-rig got relegated to media-center duties but I'm still mostly using it as that's the one hooked up to a projector & I can use it from the couch...

Why? It's not because I'm a retro-freak (though I am). It's because the 'new games' bring nothing new so I haven't had any reason to buy them.

Last edited by Charlie; 11 January 2008 at 18:16.
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Old 11 January 2008, 18:34   #53
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Hold on for another 20yrs or so when you have VR/Holographic games.
Mattel Power Glove anyone?
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Old 11 January 2008, 23:08   #54
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What about Virtuality?

Having said that -- it did have what amounted to a FPS, sort of.
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Old 12 January 2008, 01:06   #55
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Totally agree with your posts Galahad and Hungry Horace

I've played quite a few games on various friends' PS3s / Xbox 360s... Though there's loads of eye candy etc. I'm usually bored pretty quickly.

However, I do think that the Wii is cool fun and imaginative
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Old 12 January 2008, 23:32   #56
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@alanc5

indeed i believe we are living in the golden age of gamming!

Welcome to the EAB, theres plenty of retro-licious mischief to get upto.

so kickback... fire up the emulator or nostalgic inducing device and enjoy the purest chocolate coated retro-dom that this board provides.
Thanks matey, I'm really loving this board actually. The OP post kinda got me thinking about the old scene etc, I can't believe so much time has passed.

I often get out my Amigas, this time I found an old disc with a letter from a guy in Scotland who wrote a quiz program that I helped him write a random question routine for, amazing really all of that potential, it's hard to put it into words.

There was something very, very special about the Amiga, what's nice is that places like this exist where the old gang can get back together. I was just looking at the Minimig...how amazing is it that a guy can create something like that! I feel pulled between to eras, it was nice in the Amiga days but now is so nice too, the Internet especially is staggeringly good its a shame so many take it for granted.

But yeah...a very disjointed post here as I have so many conflicting feelings on everything Amiga, but it's great to be here and to see it so lively.
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Old 12 January 2008, 23:43   #57
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@alanc5

indeed i believe we are living in the golden age of gamming!
I forgot to say, I agree with you totally! Last year was just awesome for games and 2008 looks like it's going to be even better. Gran Tourismo looks just stunning, but like the new Mario Kart on Wii, can't wait for that, or UT3...well y'know, there's too many to list isn't there.

It's great to be able to play the new stuff but it's equally great to be able to play classic arcade games on MAME, or classic Amiga stuff, having all the options is really a gamers dream, I think we are so lucky to have all of the opportunities we have now.
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Old 13 January 2008, 00:22   #58
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Totally agree with your posts Galahad and Hungry Horace

I've played quite a few games on various friends' PS3s / Xbox 360s... Though there's loads of eye candy etc. I'm usually bored pretty quickly.

However, I do think that the Wii is cool fun and imaginative
I'm surprised the Xplop360 didn't blow up first before you got bored

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanc5 View Post
Gameplay?

(Hi all btw)

What's all this gameplay that was so much better on old games? You mean the way the cars in Lotus games just bounced their way from side to side around the track? Or the way the characters in Mega-lo-mania just moved like flies around an area when you placed your map? These were all limitations forced by the machines that programmers don't have to put up with anymore.

You should be thrilled about what we can do now in games! There is lots of indie stuff too thats fun if you get sick of the chart fodder. So many different machines doing innovative things.
It wasn't just the gameplay but the ideas and creativity that amazed me - a lot of them being copied/ported even today (and in some cases making a mockery of the originals - speedball 2 anyone?)

Pinball Dreams still blows me away every time I see/hear/play it I guess it's different for anyone but I'd rather play a 2D game than a 3D one - I've never been into 3D stuff apart from when I'm in the real world

A lot of creativity has been lost with newer games and it's the same old funking carp which is re-manufactured like a Clubbers Guide to Ibiza album but in a different order.

Quote:
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I think most of us just miss our youths, our mates and things like that. I love my Amiga so much and every now and then I get it out but for games I am soon reminded why I left it alone and embraced the SNES, tech just moves on.
Nah, Amiga is a way of life 1990 - 2008 and I'm still loving every minute I spend with mine Plus I still go out and beat up Atari ST users

SNES?

Last edited by Paul_s; 13 January 2008 at 00:30.
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Old 13 January 2008, 01:12   #59
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A lot of creativity has been lost with newer games and it's the same old funking carp which is re-manufactured like a Clubbers Guide to Ibiza album but in a different order.
What's interesting is that even back at the height of the Amiga days (the early '90s) people were saying that about Amiga games; look at an Amiga Power letters page for example and the chances are you'll find plenty of readers complaining about Amiga games not being as good as their 8-bit counterparts, all the originality and creativity has gone, etc.

And I have no doubt in 20 years' time, the people who grew up with the PS3/XBox 360/Wii will be saying exactly the same thing and constantly talk about the good old days of Halo 3 or whatever. It's just natural to be sentimental about the "old" days, I guess.
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Old 13 January 2008, 02:21   #60
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It wasn't just the gameplay but the ideas and creativity that amazed me - a lot of them being copied/ported even today (and in some cases making a mockery of the originals - speedball 2 anyone?)

Pinball Dreams still blows me away every time I see/hear/play it I guess it's different for anyone but I'd rather play a 2D game than a 3D one - I've never been into 3D stuff apart from when I'm in the real world

A lot of creativity has been lost with newer games and it's the same old funking carp which is re-manufactured like a Clubbers Guide to Ibiza album but in a different order.

Nah, Amiga is a way of life 1990 - 2008 and I'm still loving every minute I spend with mine Plus I still go out and beat up Atari ST users

SNES?
Hey Paul, you have a point there I guess. Pinball Illusions brought tears to my eyes the other day, the intro sequence, and then the title music that plays over the rotating geometric shapes...I just loved it. I guess that's what I miss too, the creativity and sense of belonging somehow- the swedes and the fins and the germans, all pushing that lovely machine and expressing their creativity, it's genuinely moving to experience it again.

I've always been a 2D'er at heart too. Sure, all the modern games I mentioned are 3D cos that's all there is, but give me SuperFrog, Alien Breed, SWOS, Soccer Kid, Speedball 2...and I can have just as much if not more fun. I do think it's a shame you haven't enjoyed the 3D world though, I lost a big chunk of my life to Unreal Tournament and Gran Tourismo! I guess I just like any game thats good without getting stuck in a niche.

There's also something a bit more personal about a 2D game, it's like a cartoon, you can see the artistic skill involved, the hand anti-aliasing and the mastery of a 32 colour paletter- just magic.

Surprised you haven't liked the SNES! I feel a lot for that little beauty, not as much as for Amiga of course but I had some great, great experiences on SNES. Super Mario Kart is and always will be my all time favourite game, it was a masterpiece and that Mode 7 was just bloomin amazing.

18 years on Amiga eh and still going, good man! ST Users...poor b'stards
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