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Old 20 August 2007, 08:04   #21
oneshotdead
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No modern games, whether they be on PS3, Wii, 360, or PC, interest me in the slightest. My emotions regarding the computer and videogame industry are not of lamentation (like Blade002, no offense, man), BUT OF ANGER AND OF CYNICISM.

Last decent PC game I played was Fallout, over a decade ago. Before that time, I played C64, Atari ST, and Amiga.

Now I see that "Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster".

I am 30, but will never purchase another game, regardless of platform, mainly because I perceive no mechanical advancement in them, but only "extreme immersion" through aesthetics (eyecandy). In fact, the actual gameplay is becoming simpler in order to pander to peeps less intellectually endowed, and a broader demographic (multiculturalism). Sorry, couldn't be more uninterested in a watered-down game made for a global mass (excuse the misanthope).

BioShock, Mass Effect, Crysis, don't make me yawn. I call such programs not games, but bloatware. Physics, polygons, lens flares galore: again, uninterested. I don't fork out for new hardware when the expense incurred doesn't translate into a more sophisticated gaming experience. I kinda like to use my brain, employ some tactics. As for MMORPGs, lol. Never have I played one... if I want interaction with other human beings in a fantasy game I'll play tabletop Dungeons & Dragons.

I blame Japan for making games mainstream: they hacked Western RPG ideas and turned them into insipid railroaded pick-a-path storylines. Don't ask me to defend this viewpoint, as I'm stoned.

blade002 wrote:

Quote:
I want to go back to when WE PUSHED THE BOUNDARIES !!!!!....
And when was the last time this happened? This is 2007, man. Long gone are the scientists who were intellectuals first and then became capitalists to market a product which actually had a USE, an actual benefit to humanity.

Now we have their rich decendents, who use their inheritance to market products which either have little use, or no use at all (how many pairs of fluoro-coloured flip-flops does a pre-pubescent require). Mass marketing gurus can sell them complete crap on a stick, and they, like their parents, will consume almost anything with enough exposure to advertising.

As for Deluxe Paint, I just got WinUAE working well, installed WB3.1 on a virtual HDD, and am currently having a lot of fun with it (thanks to community support here). I find it more useful than Adobe Photoslop, just a lot less hassle, too much feature-creep in the latter!

I remember animating my first flick using DP3. It was like magic to produce the illusion of movement so simply and seemlessly.

Anyway, just my 0.02 cents...
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Old 20 August 2007, 12:01   #22
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Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey View Post
If I ever have kids I'd definitely bring them up on Amigas too, they wouldn't have a choice
IŽd bring them up on 8bit comps first, then Amiga
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Old 29 August 2007, 16:23   #23
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Wise words blade. Computers were more interesting back then - the machines stood out as much as the software.

Today's hardware is dull.

This thread has been a great read but it needs some tunes to keep the nostalgia flowing:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NqTuN-35580

Take me back down whatever YEAH! Paradise city YEAH!

Last edited by Bloodwych; 30 August 2007 at 10:26.
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Old 30 August 2007, 01:11   #24
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I think you meant : [ Show youtube player ]
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Old 30 August 2007, 12:33   #25
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LOL PJ!

Or I could have meant http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AOP_cPX7JDw
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Old 30 August 2007, 12:38   #26
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Excellent thread Oneshotdead's post says it all for me.

Just can't get into todays games at all or the hardware - totally uninspiring and boring

Amiga FTW! I wish I could find more Atari ST users so I can smack them on the head with a frying pan for old times sake

Last edited by Paul_s; 30 August 2007 at 12:44.
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Old 30 August 2007, 12:44   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_s View Post
Just can't get into todays games at all or the hardware - totally uninspiring and boring
I think you're missing out personally, but it's your call.

Also, to most people in this thread, it's your youth that you're missing, not the Amiga. It just happens to be one of your fondest memories.

I have a 12 year old nephew who basically shit his pants with excitement when Gears Of War was released on the 360, he'd been following it for ages. Just because you're not young anymore, don't presume that games aren't as good or 'the youth of today don't appreciate real games'.

Otherwise you just become like the old 'dickheads' that you used to hate when YOU were young.

Last edited by P-J; 30 August 2007 at 13:22.
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Old 30 August 2007, 12:49   #28
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I do like the odd game of GTA Vice City or Pocmon but that's all I have PC gaming wise. I just can't get enough of the older games though... they might not be as graphically superior but the gameplay and memories from that time make them a lot more valuable to me...

:sigh: i miss the old days... The shop I bought my Amiga's from is still a computer games shop funnily enough, always brings a smile to my face when I drive past
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Old 30 August 2007, 12:58   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwych View Post
LOL PJ!

Or I could have meant http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AOP_cPX7JDw
Geez, and there I was for years thinking it was an original track for the game. And now it turns out it was sung by some bimbo in hot pants. Talk about disappointment

I think this deserves another thread. Music videos and amiga games.
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Old 30 August 2007, 21:01   #30
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Geez, and there I was for years thinking it was an original track for the game. And now it turns out it was sung by some bimbo in hot pants.
simply awesome isnt it



i agree with paul_s - and its more than just nostaliga.... i spent many years playing the latest PS1 / PS2 games and frankly i'm just bored with everything "new" that is released. the last truely interesting new game i saw out was LocoRoco, and i do rather like OutRun C2C, but its nothing innovative - it just happens to bemore fun than the rest of the re-hashes / updates that are being churned out.
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Old 31 August 2007, 09:08   #31
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P-J wrote:

Quote:
I think you're missing out personally, but it's your call. Also, to most people in this thread, it's your youth that you're missing, not the Amiga. It just happens to be one of your fondest memories.

I have a 12 year old nephew who basically shit his pants with excitement when Gears Of War was released on the 360, he'd been following it for ages. Just because you're not young anymore, don't presume that games aren't as good or 'the youth of today don't appreciate real games'.

Otherwise you just become like the old 'dickheads' that you used to hate when YOU were young.
OK, I'm gonna pretend this post was leveled directly at me in order to satiate my desire for typing total trash!

Firstly, everyone "misses their youth", but as I made clear in my previous post, the last decent PC game I played was Fallout (one decade ago). Now since I am 30, that means I was 20 when I experienced that game. Younger, yes, but not a youth.

Ergo, I miss not my youth _here_, but something else...

Secondly my gaming experiences were never Amiga-centric. I gamed on various platforms. As I said in another thread, as a gamer I always went where the great games were. So before the advent of Amiga I was gaming on 8-bit microcomputers/consoles/arcades, during the advent of Amiga I was gaming on 8/16-bit microcomputers/consoles/arcades, and after the advent of Amiga I was gaming on PCs/consoles/arcades.

Ergo, I miss not the Amiga _here_, but (again) something else...

What is it that I'm missing? Well, certainly a vast array of things, but let us not get personal! What I miss are games which gripped me like a vice and would not release me. Aside from the old late-80s/early-90s games, I can think of _only_ late-90s games that expanded my consciousness/blew my hair back, like a Deus Ex or a Fallout. Both are full to the brim and even overflowing with nuance. The mechanics are complex (primary thing for me, being a D&D geek), the art assets exude flair, the plots are intriguing, and the gameplay addictive. In short, they are cult-level masterpieces.

I have played many recent games on these so-called "next-gen" platforms, and I can state unequivocally that, APART FROM A HANDFUL (I can elaborate if you wish), there is nothing that approaches the experience of a Fallout. In my previous post I mentioned mainly only the eyecandy is emphasised/evolved in these new games. This is the truth. Conceptually, they are also watered-down for a global mass (i.e., especially dialogue, due to cultural-/gender-based etc. sensitivities, general across-the-board lowering of education standards, blah blah). This is also the truth. As I am fond of saying, only a fool or a madmen could assert otherwise. (Or perhaps someone with vested interests in the next-gen gaming "developments"...)

Perhaps in the future (before I get _too_ old and cranky) we will see a resurgence of games of this calibre (probably through the indie movement). Then my anger and cynicism with regard to the industry will soften, and I won't be such an "old dickhead" (as P-J so eloquently put it) in the eyes of the next generation... until then, I'm primarily retro, not "stuck in the past", as I do keep an eagle eye on the latest developments, especially the indies and the modding scene.

(Please excuse my addition of another 0.02 cents.)
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Old 31 August 2007, 10:35   #32
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Haha. Thanks for the reply

My post wasn't meant to be offensive, especially not the 'dickhead part' I was just pointing out what I've observed from being on this board for some six years now. People just seem to lean towards playing old games because it reminds them of better times. A lot like the way some people like a certain song because it reminds them of a period in their life, you know?

Anyway, each to their own!

(P.S. I do believe that there is a difference between newer and older games-- The barrier to entry on newer games is usually a lot higher! Unless you're talking RPGs with lots of hexagons, that's a subject for another day... )
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Old 31 August 2007, 10:56   #33
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To us veterans, game ideas are getting old, the magic is getting thin. Fancy graphics cant reignite the fire of seeing something for the first time.

For many of us the Amiga was our first, fast, full colour exposure to many genres. That combined with the entire games industry of that time being new and vital is something we all hope to find again.

We wont, you can never recapture the buzz, joy and thrill of your first time!!
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Old 31 August 2007, 13:16   #34
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P-J wrote:

Quote:
My post wasn't meant to be offensive, especially not the 'dickhead part' I was just pointing out what I've observed from being on this board for some six years now. People just seem to lean towards playing old games because it reminds them of better times. A lot like the way some people like a certain song because it reminds them of a period in their life, you know?
No offense taken. I just felt the need to explain my perspective more, that's all.

Also, I play the old games not so much because they remind me of better times, but simply because they are better games. The problem is that even highly nuanced games can only take so much playthrough grind before even they collapse. Then you seek the game that builds on that concept and instead of evolution, you find degeneration. Hence, my anger/cynicism at gaming industry...

And no, I'm no programmer, so I'm unable to realise my own vision. I await the inevitable full emergence of indie, and the elimination of greedy publishers.
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Old 31 August 2007, 14:29   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneshotdead View Post
And no, I'm no programmer, so I'm unable to realise my own vision. I await the inevitable full emergence of indie, and the elimination of greedy publishers.
While I would love that, it just seems to me like an impossibility. The barrier to entry to 'modern' 3D development is significantly higher than doing a bit of 6502 on the C64. There's not much money to be made so the indie developers find it tough to sustain themselves whilst working full time.

However, it's like music. Chart music to me is shit these days, but I know there's tons and tons of indie/underground stuff to listen to but it just so happens that it's not the mainstream. It's the same with games-- There are plenty of great indie games, but unfortunately they're not going to be on the shelves of your local game store, nor on the front page of 'play.com', however they are still about.

One thing I do believe is that modern games are no better than old games, but I don't think they're considerably worse either.

Half Life 2, for me, was a truly awesome game, but then so was Geoff Crammond's Formula One Grand Prix, Creatures 2 on the C64 and even Space Invaders at the arcade.

Which brings me to another point-- I think good modern games are fewer and further between, but surely that is to be expected when average development times are 18-24 months and budgets stretch well into the millions? Good games definitely came thicker and faster in the 'olden days', but surely you'll agree than turnaround was much quicker when you only had about 80,000 pixels and 1MB of RAM to worry about?

You could argue till you're blue in the face that 3D isn't necessary, or that modern games are overkill, but as long as that is what the majority want (which unfortunately I think is true), then that's what they'll try to feed you

Last edited by P-J; 31 August 2007 at 14:35.
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Old 31 August 2007, 14:42   #36
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Bioshock also shines .. maybe more then Half Life 2
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Old 31 August 2007, 14:57   #37
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Good games definitely came thicker and faster in the 'olden days', but surely you'll agree than turnaround was much quicker when you only had about 80,000 pixels and 1MB of RAM to worry about?
Development time for games on the Amiga ran over the course of a couple of years and in some cases 5 years of development time. Just because the game only required 1 MB of Ram does not mean it didnt take alot of work to produce something special due to the fact that it was that exact limitation hardware wise and memory wise that required alot more work to make it stand out from the crowd, but these coders normally came from the 8 bit scene, which was a scene that focused more on gameplay due to even further restrictions. When you dont have the graphics to sell your latest piece you need to create a game that is enjoyable to play, hence that talent and mindset transfered over to the Amiga.

The problem with PC games is that you can save at ANY time, thus making it easy to just save your way through it every 5 seconds, and although i understand that the size of the game dictates the need for these saves, it makes the game far less of a challenge than any C64 or Amiga game ive played in the past. This dellusion though that constant saving is absolutely necessary in "all" games has been proven to be false in games like Hitman on the PC which i thought was a brilliant game and was a TRUE challenge!!.

Deus-Ex is the kind of game that required saving due to its non linear nature and depth of play, so there are exceptions to the rule ( damn GREAT game too, loved it to bits ), but generally speaking, games have no real challenge now.

( BTW - you may say that if you do not want to save then just dont!. But we are all creatures of habit and we are going to use it, but i would rather be forced not too. )

Last edited by blade002; 31 August 2007 at 15:05.
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Old 31 August 2007, 15:08   #38
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Where did I assert 3D was unnecessary? I believe I mentioned Deus Ex stunned me, and I would now add to that System Shock. To my mind, 3D is a logical evolution in gaming provided the game utilises all dimensions in gameplay mechanics, not just visually. You will find many "next-gen" games fail here.

Half-Life 2 is a decent game (maxed out on mods) but mechanically it does not approach Fallout. RPGs are intrinsically much deeper experiences than FPSes, and although Deus Ex showed that hybridisation is possible (you can actually build a tank character that doesn't use guns), Fallout character builds far exceed it in complexity through an open-ended world and non-linear storyline.

And they can tantalise me all they want with physics and environmental effects such as soil erosion, I won't take the bait. Not until developers can demonstrate an evolution in mechanics proportionate to their realtime photorealism.

I believe the internet will ensure the success of indies, shrug. People will pay them for the games they want to play.
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Old 31 August 2007, 15:15   #39
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As OneShotDead stated, he played on 8 bit micros well before the Amiga as well as myself, and i must concure that i do not have as strong a feeling for those earlier gaming experiences on the Atari 2600, CBS Colecovision & C64 ( well the C64 is damn great ) as i do the Amiga. I was using the Amiga in my late teens and 20's, which again like OneShotDead stated is hardly my youth. The Amiga had something more and in my opinion it may have "something" to do with age, but it also has alot to do with the spirit of the scene back then which is rather lacking today. Yes there is still a scene out there in other areas but its hardly as communal or creative.
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Old 31 August 2007, 15:21   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_0rga5m View Post
Ahhh halcyon days of olde ...

You rock blade002 .. If this forum had that voting like some do, you'd get a top mark.
I dont understand what your trying to say, but i appreciate the comment. ... Cheers Dude
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