"dual format" ST AMIGA cover disks

NfernalNfluence · 25 July 2007, 09:04

i have one of these and after loading workbench 1.3 & inserting it into a real AMIGA, i get DF0:BAD

what exactly does BAD mean? can it be reformatted?

NfernalNfluence · 25 July 2007, 09:11

how would you normally access the amiga prtion of this disk?

Codetapper · 25 July 2007, 09:25

You just boot from the disk like any other.

Your disk is most likely knackered. The AMR team would like to get all coverdisks dumped with the CAPS dumping tools before they are dead!

alexh · 25 July 2007, 09:30

Shame that even after being dumped with the SPS (CAPS) software they are not really preserved due to the closed source approach of SPS

NfernalNfluence · 25 July 2007, 09:39

is it possible the "BAD" may represent a disk being harmful to a floppy drive?

or that it is just no longer readable?

alexh · 25 July 2007, 09:54

It means that it is not a DOS formatted disk... The structures such as the File names, DIR's etc. is missing.

Not all disks are formatted, some are RAW data with a special boot loader. It may still work (if booted from).

You could format over it (although I dunno why you'd want to unless it really is gone).

BAD disks are not harmful to the floppy drive (unless they are physically broken).

NfernalNfluence · 25 July 2007, 10:03

i tried the disk with an ST and it wasn't even acknowledged lol

killergorilla · 25 July 2007, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Shame that even after being dumped with the SPS (CAPS) software they are not really preserved due to the closed source approach of SPS

Well surely if you make it open source we'll end up with loads of unverified ipf files across the internet?

alexh · 25 July 2007, 11:02

I totally see where you are coming from, however they dont need to open source the dumper, or the tool that converts to IPF just the plugin routine that allows IPF usage in emulators.

Without that information the data is not preserved. It is just going from one obsolete unreadable format to another

Methanoid · 25 July 2007, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Without that information the data is not preserved. It is just going from one obsolete unreadable format to another

Ah but this unreadable format doesn't degrade... even it still unreadable!

mr_0rga5m · 25 July 2007, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Ah but this unreadable format doesn't degrade... even it still unreadable!

I dont think degrading is what alexh is on about, The problem is we (worldwide not just Amiga users) already have shitloads of data stored on formats that have since became obsolete. And sourcing programs to 'read' these into something more usefull is hard to find. If something happened to those couple of people that know the ipf format then it becomes another of those obsolete formats until we reverse engineer it.

(sorry we have deviated from the threads initial content.)

mai · 10 November 2009, 20:26

Old Thread, but i want to know how to recognize a dual format disk.
If i can read in bootblock "ST-Amiga Dual format disk", then it is a dual format disk?

Boo Boo · 10 November 2009, 20:49

Have you got a disk image you can upload?

Toni Wilen · 10 November 2009, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by mai

Old Thread, but i want to know how to recognize a dual format disk.
If i can read in bootblock "ST-Amiga Dual format disk", then it is a dual format disk?

It is just a text string, it does not guarantee anything.

dlfrsilver · 10 November 2009, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mai

Old Thread, but i want to know how to recognize a dual format disk.
If i can read in bootblock "ST-Amiga Dual format disk", then it is a dual format disk?

Mai, the dual format is still only effective on the real machines.
For instance if i run Lethal Xcess, Monster business or Ninja Remix on my amiga, it runs, and if i insert the disks in my 1040 STE it runs too.

That's how you recognize it. However, If a RNC disk states ST-amiga dual format, it means that both ST and amiga format are present on disk.

It's the first time i see this on a disk to be honest however.

mai · 13 November 2009, 23:05

I dont know, if i understand right.
The dual format disks, which comes with "Zero" magazine for example:
AMR provides downloads of this disks (880 kb).
Is on this disks only the amiga part present.
If both parts are present, is it possible to write back this disks to Atari ST floppys and then it works?

dlfrsilver · 14 November 2009, 09:45

well the fact is that those special disk would require a disk format able to cope with Both formats. Only extended ADF would do. Problem : i'm not sure about the write back result.

Don_Adan · 18 February 2010, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Mai, the dual format is still only effective on the real machines.
For instance if i run Lethal Xcess, Monster business or Ninja Remix on my amiga, it runs, and if i insert the disks in my 1040 STE it runs too.

You can try also "Thalion Sound Demo", but this is rare disk. Perhaps only AlexH still has original version.

alexh · 18 February 2010, 13:18

I do still have that disk in a safe place. It was a gift from Richard Karsmakers personal collection in the late 90's after I started the ThalionWebshrine.

If there was a way of dumping both the Amiga and ST portions of the disk to a format which could be used to re-create a fully working floppy disk then I would get it out and fire up my Amiga.

Don_Adan · 18 February 2010, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I do still have that disk in a safe place. It was a gift from Richard Karsmakers personal collection in the late 90's after I started the ThalionWebshrine.

If there was a way of dumping both the Amiga and ST portions of the disk to a format which could be used to re-create a fully working floppy disk then I would get it out and fire up my Amiga.

Maybe IPF format can handle both (Amiga and Atari ST) versions correctly? But I'm not expert. If I remember right a few tracks from Atari ST part of this demo was damaged, when Mr.Larmer created WHDload install for this demo, hopefully this is not important for Amiga part of this demo. Perhaps corrupted Atari ST data can be replaces with data from cracked version. ST version has extra protection, Amiga version don't have (except MFM (ST) format).

alexh · 18 February 2010, 14:09

I'm pretty sure I already dumped it and sent it to the SPS team. I'd have to check with them to be sure. I don't think it has ever been processed if it was.

Don_Adan · 18 February 2010, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I'm pretty sure I already dumped it and sent it to the SPS team. I'd have to check with them to be sure. I don't think it has ever been processed if it was.

OK. Thanks for infos. If no corrupted data problem, then perhaps is too hard for SPS team, due ST protection (flakey bits ?). Almost all good ST demos are crypted or protected.
BTW. Do you have any other Thalion demos or game demos with Mad Max music? Maybe I can rip some more unknown Hippel mods.

Boo Boo · 18 February 2010, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I do still have that disk in a safe place. It was a gift from Richard Karsmakers personal collection in the late 90's after I started the ThalionWebshrine.

If there was a way of dumping both the Amiga and ST portions of the disk to a format which could be used to re-create a fully working floppy disk then I would get it out and fire up my Amiga.

RAWREAD would do it wouldnt it?

prowler · 19 February 2010, 23:24

Hey,

I've just found four Public Domain Coverdisks (2-5) in my collection!

Boo Boo · 19 February 2010, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

Hey,

I've just found four Public Domain Coverdisks (2-5) in my collection!

Cool what Mag are they from? - Try any tool but if it cant be done try RAWREAD or PowerCopy

prowler · 19 February 2010, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Cool what Mag are they from?

I'm not sure. I got them from a retro software dealer. It appears that there was a short-lived (5 issues?) 'Public Domain' magazine which covered the Amiga, PC and Atari ST platforms. The Software they contain is a mixture of utilities and games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Try any tool but if it cant be done try RAWREAD or PowerCopy

Right. I probably won't be trying this anytime soon. I noticed this thread when you posted here last night and it reminded me of those disks.

s2325 · 30 July 2010, 21:20

Another one: http://www.thegamearchives.com/?val=..._68608_0_0_0_0

alexh · 31 July 2010, 04:41

Sadly not. That is a crack of the Amiga portion of the Thalion Sound demo.

25 July 2007, 09:04	#1
NfernalNfluence Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: living among the Moai Posts: 219	"dual format" ST AMIGA cover disks i have one of these and after loading workbench 1.3 & inserting it into a real AMIGA, i get DF0:BAD what exactly does BAD mean? can it be reformatted?

25 July 2007, 09:30	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,517	Shame that even after being dumped with the SPS (CAPS) software they are not really preserved due to the closed source approach of SPS __________________ Thalion Webshrine

25 July 2007, 09:54	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,517	It means that it is not a DOS formatted disk... The structures such as the File names, DIR's etc. is missing. Not all disks are formatted, some are RAW data with a special boot loader. It may still work (if booted from). You could format over it (although I dunno why you'd want to unless it really is gone). BAD disks are not harmful to the floppy drive (unless they are physically broken). __________________ Thalion Webshrine

25 July 2007, 11:02	#9
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,517	I totally see where you are coming from, however they dont need to open source the dumper, or the tool that converts to IPF just the plugin routine that allows IPF usage in emulators. Without that information the data is not preserved. It is just going from one obsolete unreadable format to another __________________ Thalion Webshrine Last edited by alexh; 25 July 2007 at 11:13.

10 November 2009, 20:26	#12
mai ModCollector TOSEC member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Stendal/Germany Age: 45 Posts: 3,619	Old Thread, but i want to know how to recognize a dual format disk. If i can read in bootblock "ST-Amiga Dual format disk", then it is a dual format disk? Attached Thumbnails __________________ A1200, Blizzard 68030/50, 32MB Fast, Kick 3.1, 2GB IDE>CF-Card, 4GB PCMCIA CF-Card

25 July 2007, 09:11	#2
NfernalNfluence Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: living among the Moai Posts: 219	how would you normally access the amiga prtion of this disk?

25 July 2007, 09:25	#3
Codetapper Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Age: 38 Posts: 2,465	You just boot from the disk like any other. Your disk is most likely knackered. The AMR team would like to get all coverdisks dumped with the CAPS dumping tools before they are dead!

25 July 2007, 09:39	#5
NfernalNfluence Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: living among the Moai Posts: 219	is it possible the "BAD" may represent a disk being harmful to a floppy drive? or that it is just no longer readable?

25 July 2007, 10:03	#7
NfernalNfluence Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: living among the Moai Posts: 219	i tried the disk with an ST and it wasn't even acknowledged lol

10 November 2009, 20:49	#13
Boo Boo HONEY Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: south Posts: 2,582	Have you got a disk image you can upload?

13 November 2009, 23:05	#16
mai ModCollector TOSEC member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Stendal/Germany Age: 45 Posts: 3,619	I dont know, if i understand right. The dual format disks, which comes with "Zero" magazine for example: AMR provides downloads of this disks (880 kb). Is on this disks only the amiga part present. If both parts are present, is it possible to write back this disks to Atari ST floppys and then it works? __________________ A1200, Blizzard 68030/50, 32MB Fast, Kick 3.1, 2GB IDE>CF-Card, 4GB PCMCIA CF-Card

14 November 2009, 09:45	#17
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-ExtADF Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 35 Posts: 4,527	well the fact is that those special disk would require a disk format able to cope with Both formats. Only extended ADF would do. Problem : i'm not sure about the write back result. __________________ Denis

18 February 2010, 13:18	#19
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,517	I do still have that disk in a safe place. It was a gift from Richard Karsmakers personal collection in the late 90's after I started the ThalionWebshrine. If there was a way of dumping both the Amiga and ST portions of the disk to a format which could be used to re-create a fully working floppy disk then I would get it out and fire up my Amiga. __________________ Thalion Webshrine

18 February 2010, 14:09	#21
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,517	I'm pretty sure I already dumped it and sent it to the SPS team. I'd have to check with them to be sure. I don't think it has ever been processed if it was. __________________ Thalion Webshrine

19 February 2010, 23:24	#24
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 8,711	Hey, I've just found four Public Domain Coverdisks (2-5) in my collection! (Amiga/PC/ST Tri-format disks ©Rob Northen Computing) How am I to dump these?

30 July 2010, 21:20	#27
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 32 Posts: 11,273	Another one: http://www.thegamearchives.com/?val=..._68608_0_0_0_0

31 July 2010, 04:41	#28
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 10,517	Sadly not. That is a crack of the Amiga portion of the Thalion Sound demo. __________________ Thalion Webshrine

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