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View Poll Results: Is using 'save state' considered cheating?
Yes, it is! 18 56.25%
No, it's not! 9 28.13%
Not so sure... 5 15.63%
Erm, save what? 0 0%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 14 March 2007, 16:16   #1
Anubis
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Is 'save state' cheating?

I know it's an old topic, but I wonder if your opinions change with aging. For example as years passed I have less and less time to play games.


I dont think that save state are cheats.

Save state comes handy as I can play the game in 15 minutes blocks and in couple days I can finish game that otherwise I would play for 2-3 hours?! Who can spend 2-3 hours now days to complete the game?? Kids, wife, house, work and all other things that are happening now in our life are making sure we don't have any more that luxury.

Also not to forget that some games were insane, like required you to play for couple hours to finish the game without save point, code or any other means to make game finishable.

So what's your opinion?
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Old 14 March 2007, 16:21   #2
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it is, but it depends on it's use... if u only use it to continue gaming sessions it is not, but if u use it every second and thus avoid loosing lives etc... then it is!
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Old 14 March 2007, 16:44   #3
Shoonay
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It's a no-no for using it every time you loose your life.
So, exactly what keropi said, with exeptions ...

Game's like Dragon's Lair or Space Ace are just unplayable without a serious save-load feature.
... another thing is: are those game's playable at all?

Anyways, i consider it not cheating, if used "fairly" with thyself
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Old 14 March 2007, 16:48   #4
killergorilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonay
Game's like Dragon's Lair or Space Ace are just unplayable without a serious save-load feature.
... another thing is: are those game's playable at all?
A better question is: are they 'games' at all?
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Old 14 March 2007, 16:59   #5
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Ofcourse its cheating!
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:07   #6
killergorilla
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It's like saying "Is a vegetable knife" a weapon.

No it's not, it's for cutting vegetables.

But yes, it can be used as a weapon.

Vegetables.
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:08   #7
Mad-Matt
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its either save state or never play the game again when something out of your control kills you 90% in. Much swearing and throwing tapes around back in the day until my c64 was blessed with an action replay
I dont concider it cheating. I played and work hard to get to the state i did and would like to see the end of the game if i can push through.
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:10   #8
Retroplay
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It depends on which game you do it in.
Take Jaguar XJ220 it's nice to be able to save now and then without having to start from scratch everytime I wanna play it.
But I never use it anyway it's too unreliable, I was halfway through Jag and decided to save.
Next day I wanted to continue but all I got after loading the state was a guru
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:16   #9
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IMO it's NOT cheating.

Just because:
- you have to play everything yourself; there is no unlimited energy trainers, etc., so if you are unlucky, you will have to play one scene 20 times until you can finally beat it

- it can be regarded as a supplement for a missing save function in the game, which probably could not be implemented because of disk space shortage. Am I kidding you? Not really, as it was VERY essential for game publishers to know whether the game will need 2 or 3 disks, since you have to multiply the total number of disks in one box with the (hopefully ) huge number of users that will buy it. And this can be several 100,000 disks more.
So if they could get the dev team to downsize everything to fit on only TWO disks, they did try it! Just read all those stories about game musicians who had to convert their tracks to MONO (formerly stereo) to save disk space!
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:28   #10
Shoonay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killergorilla
Vegetables.
Yeah, yeah, and fruits too!
Hard as rock Coconuts for example...
Hell, even a 12V PSU can kill, if it fall on one's head from high above
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:29   #11
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Dragons lair/Space Ace, just type the cheats and watch em through
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:35   #12
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Without a doubt, it's cheating.

A game is developed in a certain way, the way the developers intended for you to play the game. If they decided they'd make it the hardest thing on Earth, then that's how you as the gamer have to conquer it. Use whatever skill you have to figure out a way to beat the game. For example, in the case of Space Ace, when I was younger, that was one of very few games that I owned. It was difficult, but I was able to master it with some patience. I can now run through the game with no problems (as sad as that sounds).

Cheats built into a game are a different story. The developers have said "Yes. We know the game is difficult. Here's some help". Yes, that's cheating, but it's cheating with permission...sorta.

When it comes to save states however, you're pretty much breaking the rules that the player has set out. It's like playing Monopoly and you end up going to Jail. You can't say "Gee. That sucked. I'll just go back to my last position and I'll roll again". Those aren't the rules.

I agree, save states are EXTREMELY handy and they make some games much more playable, but they're still cheating. I use them frequently, but only when I don't have enough time to play a game through. The way I use them is as a one-off restart point. For example, if I were playing The Last Ninja 2 and I made it to the 2nd level but I had to stop playing for some reason, I'd save my state. Later I'd come back and restart from that point, however I'd only use it once so it's like I never left at all
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:42   #13
Shoonay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
If they decided they'd make it the hardest thing on Earth, then that's how you as the gamer have to conquer it.
Hey, you sound like it's breaking the law or something
But, ever thought, that so do the developers, making some games ULTRA HARDCORE VERY MUCHOS HARD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
I agree, save states are EXTREMELY handy and they make some games much more playable, but they're still cheating. I use them frequently, but only when I don't have enough time to play a game through. The way I use them is as a one-off restart point. For example, if I were playing The Last Ninja 2 and I made it to the 2nd level but I had to stop playing for some reason, I'd save my state. Later I'd come back and restart from that point, however I'd only use it once so it's like I never left at all
Exactly. That's why I think consider it non-cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Cheats built into a game are a different story. The developers have said "Yes. We know the game is difficult. Here's some help". Yes, that's cheating, but it's cheating with permission...sorta.
Don't forget betatesting purposes for the developers themselfs...
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:42   #14
Anubis
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@ Jason - can't save state be used as training tool? Why to play first level over and over again just to explore 2nd level?

I mean, you already made it to second level, why you have to redo it again??

And as for you comment about developers, they are people as well. They made mistakes, don't they? (ever had a bug in the game? )

I second andreas' opinion. Develpers had limitad space, and sometimes adding save function or pass code was unwanted (and not paid) 'extra' work as well.
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:54   #15
killergorilla
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I agree with Jason's post in pretty much everyway

Cut those vegetables damnit, don't attack people.
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Old 14 March 2007, 17:59   #16
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Yes, using savestates is cheating, even if it's just to continue a game later, as on a real Amiga, you CAN'T continue later (unless the game has such feature) and have to do it in one go, or if you get passwords you will still have to redo that stage.

Any usage of savestates is cheating . IMO!
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Old 14 March 2007, 18:02   #17
Anubis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironclaw
Yes, using savestates is cheating, even if it's just to continue a game later, as on a real Amiga, you CAN'T continue later (unless the game has such feature) and have to do it in one go, or if you get passwords you will still have to redo that stage.

Any usage of savestates is cheating . IMO!
Ever heard of Action Replay?
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Old 14 March 2007, 18:07   #18
Ironclaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis
Ever heard of Action Replay?
Yup, but never had one... can u save and load any location with AR on a real Amiga, like Winuae?.
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Old 14 March 2007, 18:09   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironclaw
Yes, using savestates is cheating, even if it's just to continue a game later, as on a real Amiga, you CAN'T continue later (unless the game has such feature) and have to do it in one go, or if you get passwords you will still have to redo that stage.
The lack of continueability = having to start from the beginning, I consider a BUG!
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Old 14 March 2007, 18:13   #20
Ironclaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoonay
The lack of continueability = having to start from the beginning, I consider a BUG!
, so many bugged games then .
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