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Old 20 December 2006, 21:14   #21
P-J
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I don't buy this at all. Changing the name is not hiding the fact that this is making money from a game invented by someone else.

Just like the guy who ripped off Sensible Soccer, sold his product and was surprised when Stuart Campbell ripped into him.

I'm sure it's a great game, but it's just using someone elses hard work and marketing (even if it was in the early 80's).

Free is one thing, selling it is a totally different ballpark.
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Old 20 December 2006, 21:18   #22
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Erm.. P-J the game has been written by the EXACT SAME GUY that wrote deluxe pacman, Edgar M Vigdal!

Jesus you lot need to read threads properly!
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Old 20 December 2006, 21:19   #23
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Did this guy write the original Pacman, of which this game is clearly a rip-off? You can't justify it just because it's 'retro', it's still making a profit from others work.

Sorry to seem a little harsh, but I can't possibly back down on this point.

Last edited by P-J; 20 December 2006 at 21:28.
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Old 20 December 2006, 21:20   #24
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Well obviously not, but I don't remember you complaining about it before on the Amiga!

It's like ppl selling a game inspired by space invaders (Super Space Invaders anyone?) or a miriad of driving games that look like pole position (Lotus!!)

It might be more obvious but it's still the same principal and nobody is forcing you to buy it!
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Old 20 December 2006, 21:23   #25
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That's not fair at all.

This game is not only based on the exact same premise as the original game, but from even a mild distance from the screen it is almost identical. In the first screenshot I see Pacman (Pocmon? Crikey), ghosts and powerpills. It's a straight rip-off.

It is SOLD, I repeat SOLD off the back of the popularity of Pacman, a game designed and engineered by someone else completely.

I didn't know this was 'sold' on Amiga, I thought it was a PD/freeware product.

Lotus 2 is apples, Pole Position is oranges. The only similarity is the perspective. This game has borrowed everything from Pacman. However I disagree with any rip-offs of this nature whether the game is a huge commercial hit or just a small shareware game. It's still people profiting from the work of others.

Pacman and Deluxe Pocmon are so close it's stupid.

Call it a remake and give it away, that's a different place altogether. How is this sold? By profitting from the popularity of Pacman.

Last edited by P-J; 20 December 2006 at 21:28.
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Old 20 December 2006, 21:29   #26
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Yes fair enough it is sold on the same premise as pacman and yes it is similar but you show me a pacman game that isn't that similar!

In all honesty I believe a lot of work went into this game and also warblade (Which is a blatant rip-off of galaga!) and Edgar deserves some return on his time spent.

Nobody forces anyone to pay for his effort and maybe if nobody did pay he'd stop and maybe do something more original.

There are always going to be direct rip-offs of games and other media in the world, and others are going to make money off of it (Check out the ingame music in Tower of Souls, it was ripped dirtectly from Blood Money!), is there any point in complaining. Just boycott it if you don't like it!
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Old 20 December 2006, 21:35   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bippym
Yes fair enough it is sold on the same premise as pacman and yes it is similar but you show me a pacman game that isn't that similar!
It's closer to identical than similar. This isn't about 'other games'. If I drive under the influence of alcohol is it okay because 'everyones' doing it? This game is the topic of conversation.

Quote:
In all honesty I believe a lot of work went into this game and also warblade (Which is a blatant rip-off of galaga!) and Edgar deserves some return on his time spent.
I bet it was loads of work, but that's not the point. If it took him 50 years, it's still someone elses game that has been copied. I'm sure legally the position is clear that since the name is changed it's fine, but from my point of view it's morally reprehensible.

It irks me because developers buy rights to games in order to produce sequels and similar, but some people feel they are above this. That is where the problem lies.

Quote:
Nobody forces anyone to pay for his effort and maybe if nobody did pay he'd stop and maybe do something more original.
Nobody forces people to buy those '1000 amiga games + emulator' DVDs from eBay, but EABers often complain and try to take it down. This is hardly different, if different at all.

Quote:
There are always going to be direct rip-offs of games and other media in the world, and others are going to make money off of it (Check out the ingame music in Tower of Souls, it was ripped dirtectly from Blood Money!), is there any point in complaining. Just boycott it if you don't like it!
I wouldn't buy it in a million years for the above reasons, but I can't just turn a blind eye to something like this. I'm sure he avoided copyright/trademark issues my changing the name but that action alone proves the developer knows he has plagiarised to a great extent and has tried to cover it up as best as possible.

I must apologise if I've ruined this thread, but surely someone else can see this point?
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Old 20 December 2006, 22:20   #28
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Huh I really don't see where this is going.

Yes, it is on the Pacman theme but it's an enhanced version imo. It's fun, enjoyable and has extra stuff than the original.

Does this mean that all the 3D perspective games now on the PC are ripping off whichever came first?

Does Crazy cars rip off Lotus? Blah blah etc etc.

I really don't see the problem - fair enough it's based on an old game but who the funk cares.. if you like Pocmon over the original then meh.
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Old 20 December 2006, 22:43   #29
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Every author thats written a first person shooter since 3D Monster Maze came out for the ZX81 should be found, flogged, publicly humiliated, flogged again, sued, jailed and killed. And thrice killed some more to death. Its a disgrace that game ideas are copied.

Yes, its based on pacman, but its not the same. Yes we changed the name to avoid Namco knocking at the door. Yes we are selling it. However, we are confident that our version of this classic far exceeds most others out there, certainly in the fun and playability stakes and often in the sounds and gfx departments too. AND it most often costs $5 less !!

This took us 6 months of nightly (we do both have full time work and families) work with many bedtimes stretching away till 3-4am. We would like a little recompense for that hard work and i don't think its too much to ask.

as Paul s says, don't like it, don't buy it.
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Old 20 December 2006, 22:58   #30
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Quote:
Yes, its based on pacman, but its not the same. Yes we changed the name to avoid Namco knocking at the door. Yes we are selling it. However, we are confident that our version of this classic far exceeds most others out there, certainly in the fun and playability stakes and often in the sounds and gfx departments too. AND it most often costs $5 less !!
Oh, so because it's better that makes it alright? You ripped the iconic graphics (redrawing them is the same) and copied the entire principle of the game and then added a few bits. You've copied their game fair and square, but none of this is a problem until...

Quote:
This took us 6 months of nightly (we do both have full time work and families) work with many bedtimes stretching away till 3-4am. We would like a little recompense for that hard work and i don't think its too much to ask.
...you charge for it. I couldn't care less how long you took on it. You copied a game, then sold it. In my book that's no better than selling Amiga CDs on eBay. I'm so sorry you had to take time out of your life to copy this game, luckily for you any spiritual gain is non-existant and money is your motivator.

Because it has a retro factor, you have plenty of defence on this forum but it's basically thieving. Personal use and freeware is very different.

I wonder how different the comments would be if you ripped off a game an EABer had conceived and programmed.

Quote:
as Paul s says, don't like it, don't buy it.
Is this cheeky comment suppose to be funny? Shall I go and see what Namco or whoever owns the rights thinks of this? No, because I wouldn't do something like that, but don't insult me by thinking a boycott would stop you from selling someone elses game idea.

If you want to continue this, PM me.

Last edited by P-J; 20 December 2006 at 23:04.
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Old 20 December 2006, 23:07   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_s
Does this mean that all the 3D perspective games now on the PC are ripping off whichever came first?
Do they copy the graphics, cultural icons, gameplay, the name (basically) and then use the previous developers marketing work to sell their game? No.

Quote:
Does Crazy cars rip off Lotus? Blah blah etc etc.
See above, no.

Quote:
I really don't see the problem - fair enough it's based on an old game but who the funk cares.. if you like Pocmon over the original then meh.
It's based on an old game? BASED? Open your eyes buddy, besides, what is the point in arguing with someone so apathetic? I hope you get ripped off someday.
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Old 20 December 2006, 23:07   #32
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Your game collection must be seriously woeful. Have you ever played ANY breakout game other than the original Pong ? Have you played ANY top down space game other than "Space War" ? Did you have as much fervour when Megaball was released on the Amiga ? I mean thats just breakout with powerups. I bet you have played games like these and i bet you've paid for games like these too. Same game, different gfx.

I can totally understand what you are saying, i just don't understand WHY you are saying it. Game design ripoff, idea ripoff and direct cloning for profit has been going on since the dawn of computers. Its no different now.
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Old 20 December 2006, 23:10   #33
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Which part of PM me is not understandable in your language?

Quote:
I can totally understand what you are saying, i just don't understand WHY you are saying it. Game design ripoff, idea ripoff and direct cloning for profit has been going on since the dawn of computers. Its no different now.
You can understand that I'm saying you've copied a game and are immorally selling it for profit? So why do you do it?

Don't justify it with others actions, it's pathetic. Like an 8 year old school child : "He started it."

Your direct copying of this game is current, I can't do anything about the past.

Quote:
Same game, different gfx.
You've decided to take this a step further : Same game, same graphics. Oh, you redrew them? How clever of you!

Like I said before, you'd hate it if it was your original game that had been ripped off, and don't try to dispute this. Also, please stop using plagiarism analogies that are nothing like the plagiarism you've performed, or this will go on forever.

Last edited by P-J; 20 December 2006 at 23:18.
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Old 20 December 2006, 23:20   #34
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LMAO. I'm sorry i didn't see that part of your post. I shall go and publicly flog myself now...
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Old 20 December 2006, 23:23   #35
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Okay guys take this to PM NOW. I don't want to close this thread.
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Old 21 December 2006, 00:10   #36
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Hey P-J - I wasn't having a go or anything. I can understand what you're saying though - you have your opinion and I respect that.

Anywho I'll leave it be. The old "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" always comes to mind anywho
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Old 21 December 2006, 11:41   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-J
Which part of PM me is not understandable in your language?



You can understand that I'm saying you've copied a game and are immorally selling it for profit? So why do you do it?

Don't justify it with others actions, it's pathetic. Like an 8 year old school child : "He started it."

Your direct copying of this game is current, I can't do anything about the past.



You've decided to take this a step further : Same game, same graphics. Oh, you redrew them? How clever of you!

Like I said before, you'd hate it if it was your original game that had been ripped off, and don't try to dispute this. Also, please stop using plagiarism analogies that are nothing like the plagiarism you've performed, or this will go on forever.



Nooooooo !!! Don`t stop. I`ve wet my pants allready.
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Old 21 December 2006, 14:16   #38
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my dads bigger than yours !
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Old 21 December 2006, 14:20   #39
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P-J, I respect your opinion. If more game programmers had that attitude, more new ideas would be seen.

However when I did my Super Munch-Man in 91 it was from seeing some crappy Pac-Man clone and wanting to do a more playable one. And to test out my sound effects system

From a business perspective though, I think you *should* buy a license from the original game company if you're competing with him on his markets in any way. I don't think the Warblade guys are doing that in any form that counts.

Well my "market" is OCS Amigas, and nothing I do for Amiga for my personal bit of fun will ever cost any money.
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Old 21 December 2006, 14:38   #40
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Yeah, I agree, I have stayed out of this thread for a while to calm down.

My major gripe was that although time was spent on this game and the developer thinks that is worth money, then surely the time spent on the original by Namco (and all the money spent on marketing) is worth paying for too?

Hence I feel it should be properly licensed. If the developers asked, and got a response of 'do what you like, we don't care' then that's fine by me.
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