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Old 10 November 2006, 23:26   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
<lots of specs>

not even your PSP can do all this
But your Series 60 cellphone can, there is office sw, there is 3d acceleration, there is tv out, memory cards, mp3-players, divx player, mod/s3m/xm/sid player etc.

There's a vivid developer scene..

And if you don't like symbian, there's always Palm and MS Pocket pc (whoever likes that one, I don't know)

Why would a new Amiga in handheld form sell to the market where Symbian + MS + Palm already have a strong foothold and installed base?
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Old 11 November 2006, 00:00   #142
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Originally Posted by shillard
May as well speculate about how cool it would be for the US Air Force to deploy BattleStars.

More likely.
Or may as well speculate your clear non-interest in whatever the Amiga is or does in the future, and wonder why it is that you keep 'contributing' to this thread in as positive a manner as you have so far!

I mean, its all rather easy to simply rubbish everyone else opinion isn't it, without actually offering any solutions to the questions you posed.

So Mr.Optimistic (read: Mr.Pedant), lets hear your bright ideas about how you think it would be possible (if at all) for Amiga as a brand to have a resurgence.

I'm quite sure your reply will simply be a retread of your previous 'mocking' replies to others.

Gosh, I can't wait for your reply!
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Old 11 November 2006, 03:06   #143
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@jope

Palm OS is a joke m8, anyone whom really evalutes things can tell that in under 10 minutes, dont get me wrong its has *features* but... sigh... if you HAD to use one (heavly) for a year I am sure most would understand my frustration with it.

Pocket PC.
its okay if ya wanna play doom, and reset the damn thing every 45 minutes of heavy use... i wasn`t impressed with any of the mobile editions from M$

Symbian,
well you raise an interesting point here jopestah', my use of it (restricted to only a few months of use compared to the other years) though limmited I personaly felt that it had more potential than the device offered. I think i was using OS 8.0 truth be I cannot remeber the handset i was using with it. so i wont slate Symbian simpy because I havent had a good feel of it.

But all this is NOT amiga. perhaps I should of said that i wanted a handheld unit that would have the capability of a mobile phone as opposed to a mobile phone that has the capacity of of a hand-held unit.

you know if i drew it i am sure it would make more sense than just the technical aspects.

WHAT I WANT IS A NEW OLD RETRO MODERN AMIGA (sheesh... its not like i ask much)

@Galahad/FLT
I am hoping that if i ignore them the only fuel for their pessimism will either run dry or hopefully they eat themselfs...

Last edited by Zetr0; 11 November 2006 at 03:15.
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Old 11 November 2006, 06:11   #144
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Rational people dont run the world, Rational people dont succeed..Rational people dont invent new ideas.....
SHUT

UP.
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Old 11 November 2006, 06:37   #145
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"Rational People" don't discard two centuries of empirical Western medical science in favour of sticking their thumbs up people's butts to cure cancer, checking the colour of quadrant 2 of the left eyeball to identify a sore toe, and administering garlic enemas.....well, probably just for the hell of it.

Rational people, in fact, DO rule the world, they DO invent new things, and they DO succeed. Demonstrably so.

Compare and contrast: Tesla vs Gates. Which of the two can be considered more rational? Most would wager Gates.

Now, which of the two wound up as the world's richest man, and which one died in obscurity, despite being credited with the creation of everything from television to anti-grav devices?
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Old 11 November 2006, 07:23   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shillard
"Rational People" don't discard two centuries of empirical Western medical science in favour of sticking their thumbs up people's butts to cure cancer, checking the colour of quadrant 2 of the left eyeball to identify a sore toe, and administering garlic enemas.....well, probably just for the hell of it.

Rational people, in fact, DO rule the world, they DO invent new things, and they DO succeed. Demonstrably so.

Compare and contrast: Tesla vs Gates. Which of the two can be considered more rational? Most would wager Gates.

Now, which of the two wound up as the world's richest man, and which one died in obscurity, despite being credited with the creation of everything from television to anti-grav devices?
You are a friend of James Randi. He is a voice of simple clarity in an ocean of insipidity that is irrationality and nonsense.

www.csicop.org
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Old 11 November 2006, 08:16   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shillard
"Rational People" don't discard two centuries of empirical Western medical science in favour of sticking their thumbs up people's butts to cure cancer, checking the colour of quadrant 2 of the left eyeball to identify a sore toe, and administering garlic enemas.....well, probably just for the hell of it.
hahaha.... damn your a clueless bastard. Where has Cancer been cured by Western medical science?.. i didnt know Cancer had been cured??.. which Cancer, how many Cancers??. what! Radio Therapy?. Yes some do come good and go into the remission, but thats also due to how the MIND works!.

If someone has cancer and they are told how long they have to live, which might be the usual 6 months.. then that person will be dead in 3 months!.. because the stress and the trauma of knowing so is what drops the immune system so much lower to the point of complete immune breakdown!. If that same person is not told how long they have to live, they may 4 times longer, or for years to come!. Your "attitude" and your diet will play as big a part if not bigger than getting treated at your local hospital.

Im not against medical Western Science. Without it alot of us would be dead from other types of illness, but what i am against what we are not being "honestly" told to prevent some of these diseases.

When it comes to cancer the main causes of it IS due to Western culture... Meat products, Dairy Products, Acidosis in the blood.... this isnt some pshchobable, its a biochemical fact!!.. Nothing to do with all that Reiki, Aura shit.. Thats not what im doing, so get off your fat arse, read a book, get educated instead of sitting in your chair sucking down piss all day getting frustrated at the rest of the world.. Shit your bitter !!.

If you really want to learn something.. then go to the following links.. watch EVERYTHING you see, and then come back to me with an educated opinion...

Before i go.. I'll get onto Acidosis. You blood runs at a PH level between Acid & Alkaline in the bloodstream... The main reason why someone retains fat, maintains high cholesterol, suffer from disease, are low on energy.. etc.. is because most Western food converts to Acid in the bloodstream after it is eaten.. no i dont mean a Tomato or Lemon that has acid before it goes in .. im talking about how you body converts it to Acid if its biochemical nature determines it as being so when consumed.

For one example your body creates cholesterol to protect a body that contains blood that is too high in acid and not enough alkaline, due to the fact the heart valves which are some of the most sensitive tissue in the body need protection from such acid... you make your blood more alkaline.. you lower the cholesterol naturally.. without drugs, that can you make you feel like absolute shit from all the side effects.. etc..

Another example is Sugar.. its not the Sugar itself that will make you loose your teeth, its how it converts into the body into acid that causes the holes, and it converts HIGHLY into acid. This acid will also leach calcium from the bones and teeth, and no matter how much Milk you drink, you will not get enough calcium to replace it due to a high acid food lifestyle and also due to the fact that Milk is so high in Animal protien that calcium will not absorb properly into the body when the protein content of what you are consuming is that high!.

But i know you choose not to listen to what im saying. You think your so clever and unique in your comments about the Amiga, yet buy so much bullshit from what you see on TV about what western science and the food industry is telling you. Disease is a business!, Cancer is a business!. Dying is a business!.. Death is profitable!. And for the record, i start researching all this 2 years before i even started my course.. i now just know a little more.

If you can truly think for yourself, give me an educated opinion back and dont go cutting and pasting internet information.. research it yourself before you pass your piss ant comments upon me.

BTW - When was i talking to you anyway??.. i was talking Fred the Duck!.. You just cant keep your mouth shut can you!?.. always need to put your pathetic 2 cents in.

Watch these video links!.

Heart Disease Need Never Exist.
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...well+esselstyn

Animal Protein ( Meat & Dairy ) Causes Cancer
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...colin+campbell

The Perils of Dairy Products
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...john+mcdougall

Last edited by blade002; 11 November 2006 at 08:50.
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Old 11 November 2006, 08:28   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred the Duck
SHUT

UP.
I can see from this comment that your a very intelligent man.
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Old 11 November 2006, 09:14   #149
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Hmm, all of a sudden i see a pretty huge market for the Amiga One in the second millenium...

... psychiatric wards.
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Old 11 November 2006, 09:18   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shillard
Rational people, in fact, DO rule the world, they DO invent new things, and they DO succeed. Demonstrably so.
Their so-called successes and creations are rarely ground breaking and almost always obsessed with the bottom dollar and nothing else. I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shillard
Compare and contrast: Tesla vs Gates. Which of the two can be considered more rational? Most would wager Gates.

Now, which of the two wound up as the world's richest man, and which one died in obscurity, despite being credited with the creation of everything from television to anti-grav devices?
You are comparing these two as to how they finished up? How pessimistic and materialistic of you. That is no way to judge a man. I would have said Tesla over Gatesy boy anyday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade002
Rational people dont run the world, Rational people dont invent new ideas, Rational people dont succeed.. Irrational people do things no one else will, and come up with those new ideas and solutions, while the rational people live life in mediocre thoughts and become bitter.

About 80% of the world lives in the " Be realistic " mindframe. And 50% of the world is on antideppresants and arent happy. Push yourself, push new ideas, push hope... Most people say them to themselves " oh whats the point "... " oh it wont work "... " oh the world is fucked anyway, why bother "...etc... I used to be the most "realistic" person you could get, and it wasnt getting me or anyone else around me anywhere.
Well said. I don't know about the Amiga ever coming back, but I admire your attitude. The world needs more people like you.
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Old 11 November 2006, 09:54   #151
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The reason people are unhappy is because of the bullshit like comparing who is more successful Gates or Tesla.

There are something like 6 Billion people on this planet, I would think millions of them have more money then me, whiter teeth, better girlfriends, longer penus, thicker hair, nicer looking, better jobs, nicer computer collections, etc. While most people compare themselves to those other 6B people to see if they are "happy" I just look at what I consider important to me and thats it. If you go through life trying to do the unatainable sooner or later the feeling of failure will consume you. To realy be happy you need to be realistic in what you need to get done and not how the needs of 6B other people compare to yours.

Irrational people do not come up with anything usefull, so don't get your hopes up in your padded room. Everything we have today came from people looking at what was available and trying to make it a little better in some way.

Go look around at what people are throwing out into the trash these days tech wise and then tell me what a new Amiga would have to be (and cost) to be a little better then what we have today, and THEN figure out how much money it would cost to design, manufacture, market and advertise that product. Once you get a figure for the costs associated then tell me where you are going to get the money for it all.
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Old 11 November 2006, 10:06   #152
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Irrational people do not come up with anything usefull, so don't get your hopes up in your padded room. Everything we have today came from people looking at what was available and trying to make it a little better in some way.
It needed to become available to begin with to actually make it a little better.

All the most influential people in world went against the grain and rational thought to become where they are today and the companies that you and i now buy from everyday. If you would like many examples of such people and the events that took place, i would be more than happy to write them up here.

And yes, i completely agree, comparing yourself to everyone else to be happy is NOT the answer to happiness. Im not saying we need to compare eachother, we just need to understand that we as people need to grow mentally, and if we stay in that rutt and Never, It Cant be, It will Never be... then nothing will ever come of anything.

Success to someone could be anything!. its a personal thing, from having son/daughter, learning how paint, starting your own business, going back to school, learning how to swim.. etc.. personal goals i think will make you happy, not trying to succeed to make everyone else happy.

I understand where your coming from

Last edited by blade002; 11 November 2006 at 10:17.
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Old 11 November 2006, 10:19   #153
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Well said. I don't know about the Amiga ever coming back, but I admire your attitude. The world needs more people like you.
Thankyou Muzkat!. I do appreciate it & the feeling is mutual
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Old 11 November 2006, 10:32   #154
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Influential people used rational thaught to get to where they are. Seeing a need and making a product to fill it is RATIONAL. Making a product that is not needed is IRRATIONAL.

Every usefull invention ever created was from somebody trying to do something new or looking at others failed experiments with a different perspective and making it usefull in areas the creater did not think off.
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Old 11 November 2006, 10:45   #155
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Influential people used rational thaught to get to where they are. Seeing a need and making a product to fill it is RATIONAL. Making a product that is not needed is IRRATIONAL.
So when Sega, Nintendo & Atari were flying high was there a need to fill the market with even more consoles from companies that had nothing to do with Video game or console production( with the exception of Microsoft on the PC )?. Did we really need Sony & Microsoft to come along with game consoles?.. Eventually the market would have moved forward from the likes of the previous players in the market.

Sure Sony & Microsoft have alot of money, but there wasnt exaclty a void in that market already now was there? .. They found flaws in Sega & Nintendo and built upon them with clever marketing and a good previous track record.

When there were 2 car manufacturers, did we really need another one?. How rational would it have been to start another one?... but what happened.. others were started.. etc..

Looks like i will need to put those detailed examples up..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_K
Every usefull invention ever created was from somebody trying to do something new or looking at others failed experiments with a different perspective and making it usefull in areas the creater did not think off.
Exactly!!.. So in thinking that, why not support DiscreetFX in their plans. Commodore failed, and so did everyone else. Failure equals success. Do you think that everyone who ever became anyone actually got it right the first time?. They fail, but instead of saying it wont work, they learn from that and build upon it or they see the mistakes of others like you said and build upon it from that.
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Old 11 November 2006, 11:12   #156
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It doesn't matter if a console or car exists, if I can build a better one (better being decided by the public), or the same quality but cheaper then I can exploit the market that exists. If I can come up with something nobody else has done that people would need or want then I can create my own market.

Failure does not equal success, a good plan followed by good execution of that plan, and good financial backing leads to success. I do not know of DiscreetFX's plans for Amiga, the quality of the backers they have rounded up, nor what they intend to do with the brand asuming they can afford to buy it. This is not 1993 anymore, times have moved on and Amiga has become more obsolete now then it was in 1993 (when it died because it was obsolete compared to what was current in the industry then).

Even Intel with its top knotch manufactuing, resources, and people has had more failures then successes when you look at their products outside of the x86.
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Old 11 November 2006, 11:39   #157
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It doesn't matter if a console or car exists, if I can build a better one (better being decided by the public), or the same quality but cheaper then I can exploit the market that exists. If I can come up with something nobody else has done that people would need or want then I can create my own market.

Failure does not equal success, a good plan followed by good execution of that plan, and good financial backing leads to success. I do not know of DiscreetFX's plans for Amiga, the quality of the backers they have rounded up, nor what they intend to do with the brand asuming they can afford to buy it. This is not 1993 anymore, times have moved on and Amiga has become more obsolete now then it was in 1993 (when it died because it was obsolete compared to what was current in the industry then).

Even Intel with its top knotch manufactuing, resources, and people has had more failures then successes when you look at their products outside of the x86.
Only time will tell what DiscreetFX has lined up my friend

We will just have to wait and see

The odds definately are stacked against them in a massive way. All we can do is hope, or not hope.
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Old 11 November 2006, 11:41   #158
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Will be interested to see what comes of this-- I'm emotionally detached from the Amiga now (after all the years of decay) so it's nice to be able to sit on the sidelines and watch it unfold.

Oh, and 'Shillard', STFU.
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Old 11 November 2006, 11:44   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT
Or may as well speculate your clear non-interest in whatever the Amiga is or does in the future, and wonder why it is that you keep 'contributing' to this thread in as positive a manner as you have so far!

I mean, its all rather easy to simply rubbish everyone else opinion isn't it, without actually offering any solutions to the questions you posed.

So Mr.Optimistic (read: Mr.Pedant), lets hear your bright ideas about how you think it would be possible (if at all) for Amiga as a brand to have a resurgence.

I'm quite sure your reply will simply be a retread of your previous 'mocking' replies to others.

Gosh, I can't wait for your reply!
Nothing a few hundred million can't fix. The following steps assume that a complete business and marketing plan has been compiled, scrutinised and documented, that an R&D direction has been set. What direction?

DiscreetFX is the one telling the story - let Pyro fill in the blanks.



Step 1 - Raise Capital

Raise a few hundred million (real dollars, not Australian) in capital. That would involve convincing those with real money to invest in a dubious and risky tech venture that actually involves building stuff, as opposed to an e-commerce enterprise. To get this kind of cash you need to compete with everyone else after this kind of cash. Private equity firms that run buy-outs of listed businesses and large non-listed businesses usually demand a complete return on investment within 5 years - and that's before they sell the business off.

Once you've worked out how to compete with that - go find the cash.


Step 2 - Segment your customers, build pre-launch awareness

So who are the customers? Kids running WinUAE? Bitter and twisted Amigans of old? Unix Nerds? Graphics geeks? Desktop publishers? Mums & Dads who download porn from the net?

Once the segments have been identified, you need to provide them with a compelling reason to drop what they currently use/ intend to use, in favour of what you offer. This means you offer better value - not a lower price, but more bang for buck than the competition. BUT....unless you sell your gear at a good margin, those providing the cash from Step "1" above will be all over your arse.

Oh, and you'll go bankrupt. Like C= did.

Of course building awareness takes money. Lots of it. And be prepared to be ridiculed by a skeptical Win/Apple obsessed specialist and mainstream press. Lots of spin required at this stage.

Step 3 - build your distribution channels

Who will sell your creation? Specialst stores, game stores, department stores, Best Buy, Dixons, online, will you go direct like Dell?

Here's the catch - unless you go direct, you don't get much say. You can court as many potential distributors as you like, but they decide if they want to do business with you.

So to get on the shelves of any retailer, you'll have to offer them something better than everyone else who wants that shelf space - Apple, IBM, Toshiba, HP, etc.

Good luck.

And don't think "better" means high quality - it means more margin, better rebate, better trading terms, more co-op support, and more ATL advertising that will drive people into their stores to ask for that product.


End of lesson 1....


Good Luck.
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Old 11 November 2006, 11:49   #160
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I think we have a record.

Congratulations, Shillard. Registered Sept 2006 and you've pissed the most people off in the shortest time ever.

Unfortunately this is the downside of the internet. Open forums are generally great, but trolls can ruin it for everyone.

However I've just noticed the ignore list, and you're the first name to go on it. Everyone else, don't feed the troll.
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