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View Poll Results: Do you own/use Amiga Forever? - Multiple Choice Poll
Yes I find it a very useful package 21 14.48%
Yes it is worth the money 15 10.34%
Yes but I thought it was too expensive 14 9.66%
Yes but there are better alternatives 8 5.52%
Yes but it was not of much use to me and was a waste of money 12 8.28%
No 86 59.31%
I would consider it if there was a Lite version 10 6.90%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 01 October 2006, 20:16   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisken uno
Because a member on here works for them and reports to them so that they can shut down sites that contain amiga preserving content?
Amiga preserving content should not contain currently marketed products (in this case OS3.9). This has been an accepted rule for ages yet guru64 (aka Minuous) chose not to accept it.
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Old 01 October 2006, 20:25   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adolescent
Amiga preserving content should not contain currently marketed products (in this case OS3.9). This has been an accepted rule for ages yet guru64 (aka Minuous) chose not to accept it.
True. But why did they demand that ALL amiga related content should be removed? A polite way of handling things would be to request that the copyrighted content ONLY should have been removed... Don't you think?
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Old 01 October 2006, 20:36   #43
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no wait we have gone this way already guys. there's nothing to be add to that imho.

glwxxx: no noone has proved to be lawless (i get your post short), someone has instead proved not to be able to have always 1) pacate discussion on the board 2) behave rules of EAB 3) understand the warnings of the mods. all said and done, people had some kind of agreement on drop the stuff, but i see that it was wishful thinking on my side.

Cloanto is free to do businness as it wants, as long as it does it inside the law: you disagree with that? take it with them.
on the other side, that statement reported in the start of this thread by said company, is advertising as it could be. it is completely not based on facts. and anyone is entitled to not like Cloanto. as long as he refrains from insults please.

Last edited by Marcuz; 01 October 2006 at 22:05.
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Old 01 October 2006, 21:02   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legerdemain
Since people are willing to pay for Amiga Forever they must consider it be a product worth paying for.
People are also willing to pay the Mafia. Do you consider Mafia Protection a Product worth paying for too?

A nice thing of Amiga Forever is surely the videos on the Pro Edition, although I probably will never see them cause I dont wanna pay $60 for those vids.
Anyway, it's a nice touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adolescent
Amiga preserving content should not contain currently marketed products (in this case OS3.9). This has been an accepted rule for ages yet guru64 (aka Minuous) chose not to accept it.
I don't know what you're smoking, but I never mentioned OS3.9. I frankly am not interested in OS3.9 anyway since I only care about the true retro Amigas like A500,A1200,A4000...
As for this Minuous, tell me how you came to the conclusion that we're the same guy. I don't know him. (Admin probably can prove that by checking IPs)
cheers!

Last edited by guru64; 01 October 2006 at 22:54.
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Old 01 October 2006, 22:06   #45
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Originally Posted by guru64
As for this Minuous, tell me how you came to the conclusion that we're the same guy. I don't know him. (Admin probably can prove that by checking IPs)
cheers!
i confirm it
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Old 01 October 2006, 22:34   #46
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Amiga Explorer is Cloanto's software and they have a right to sell that. But they shouldn't be allowed to sell the roms etc. I've learned a lot about Amiga emulation since joining this forum. I realize now that I should never have paid for the package that I got. I've supported the company that isn't allowing the Amiga emulation community to grow.

In light of all this, I feel like there is some good from the company being around. Amiga Explorer really is a great program and I have no problem having paid for that. I agree with anyone who said the roms should be freeware.
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Old 01 October 2006, 22:34   #47
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Legerdemen,

you're far away from the reality.

People (if they) are buying Amiga ForMoney because that is the only 'legal' way to get amiga kickstart and workbench. (BS, you don't get WB3.1 with it and I doubt that Cloanto has right to everything included in WB3.1)

True that they are clossing sites with kickstart roms, but thanks god, there is a google.

Not sure why they don't sue google, as google seems to provide way for people to find those pucking roms for free...

And yes, Cloanto is plague for amiga scene, and I'm sure that 90% of amiga scene members feel that way. (except glyx guy and you perhpas :P) Sorry Cloanot and your minions, you guys just suck.
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Old 01 October 2006, 23:14   #48
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I guess the end game is that i find it sad that guys who want to konw the Amiga and it's amazing world, can't, because it's not easily and freely accessible.

Cloanto is making money. But i wonder at what cost of how many lost members of the Amiga emulation scene. Dozens? hundreds? Couple of thousands? I lay the blame of the comparatively low member figure of the Amiga emulation scene straight at the door of Cloanto. How many fans have been lost? How many fan sites have been brought down? How many Amiga fans have they stopped serving?

I'm still of the time where Amiga owners of the 80's and 90's - Like myself - could get Workbench and Kickstart out of any website out there. Then came Cloanto.

How many dozens of Websites disappeared i have even lost track. The Amiga doesn't deserve this. The Amiga deserved more. Alot more.
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Old 01 October 2006, 23:37   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisken uno
True. But why did they demand that ALL amiga related content should be removed? A polite way of handling things would be to request that the copyrighted content ONLY should have been removed... Don't you think?
IIRC, that wasn't required by Cloanto. It was the ISP request. Woody woul dhave to be asked abou this to be sure.
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Old 01 October 2006, 23:46   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultron
I'm still of the time where Amiga owners of the 80's and 90's - Like myself - could get Workbench and Kickstart out of any website out there. Then came Cloanto.
And you can somehow blame every Amiga site closing on Cloanto? AmiSectorOne? BTTR? ALE? Nope. I know of only one site that brought trouble on itself by hosting AmigaOS 3.9 and Kickstart ROMs. What's unfortunate is there were other sites on the same server that were affected.
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Old 01 October 2006, 23:48   #51
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Originally Posted by guru64
As for this Minuous, tell me how you came to the conclusion that we're the same guy. I don't know him. (Admin probably can prove that by checking IPs)
cheers!
Sorry, my mistake. It's hard to tell one douche-bag from another in all these Cloanto = teh suck! threads.
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Old 02 October 2006, 08:44   #52
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I think the point is, if Cloanto werent rigorously enforcing their purchased IP rights, then the Amiga emulation scene would have been more accessible for a lot of people, which in turn would have created greater interest and development in the Amiga emulation scene due to their being more users and general interest.

Instead we have the opposite general effect.

Thank god for people like Toni and other die hards who continue to invest their time into software for emulation and those few who still develop some form of software on the Amiga platform. They are the ones who are truly still supporting the Amiga, and Cloanto has the nerve to claim they're the supporters and feeders of the scene, by flogging their purchased roms and everyone elses hardwork on a cd.

Does anyone know if some of those authors actually got some form of compensation from Cloanto for this? I know this is why a lot of people wont GPL their softare or create open source for fear some profit monger is going to come in and whack their hard work on some sort of compilation they flog purely for their own profit.

Cloanto can rot as far as Im concerned, the only thing that would have been worse is a company buying the IP and putting it in a deep freeze, but if they had you'd probably never have had a single web host receive a legal note about hosting said material.
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Old 02 October 2006, 10:18   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaCkAdDa
Thank god for people like Toni and other die hards who continue to invest their time into software for emulation and those few who still develop some form of software on the Amiga platform. They are the ones who are truly still supporting the Amiga, and Cloanto has the nerve to claim they're the supporters and feeders of the scene, by flogging their purchased roms and everyone elses hardwork on a cd.

Does anyone know if some of those authors actually got some form of compensation from Cloanto for this? I know this is why a lot of people wont GPL their softare or create open source for fear some profit monger is going to come in and whack their hard work on some sort of compilation they flog purely for their own profit.
Are Cloanto legally entitled to 'flog' what they are 'flogging'? Have someone that has 'material' on their DVD's objectet against the material being there? And, if so, what where the response from Cloanto? Or is it merely a matter of people objecting against the way that Cloanto works, as a company? The only reason why I am asking is... it seems rather important wether or not someone with material to be found on their package have objected... otherwise their, so called, 'flogging' of other peoples hard work, is anything but irrelevant (at least to me)...

Though, it is quite funny to see that some people seem to think that it is perfectly okay to reason like this (not saying YOU or YOU or YOU do, though, I have simply seen it at times): while those trying to make money out of someone else's hard work is perfect scum those that are spreading tens of thousands of roms for free are 'holy' preservers of the community and the software. Sorry, but that seems like nothing but egoistic logic, to me... because even if spreading tens of thousands of roms for free, while not making cash on someone elses hard work, the hard work is still not paid for.
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Old 02 October 2006, 10:50   #54
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... Cloanto Sucks!

Go Away!

Corporate Pigdogs! >:e

... edit: Yeah, they contacted me via email to take the kickstart roms down from my website.... the nerve!
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Old 02 October 2006, 10:53   #55
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Did they (hard workin' people) complain about those thousends roms? (Or it's again another greedy company like Nintendo that is complaining?)

LOL

Legerdemain,
I'm not sure if you're trying to say if Cloanot is helping or not helping Amiga scene... Can you be more specific?


Just small example. I'm talking to someone who never had an Amiga. He moved from C64 to PC. I explain him that Amiga had nice sound/gfx, that a lot of C64 games have been made on Amiga too and that they look and play better.

He likes to try it, but it is illegal until he buys roms from Cloanto. (and rest of the crap that they sell)

And this is where his interest in Amiga ends.
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Old 02 October 2006, 11:04   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis
Legerdemain, I'm not sure if you're trying to say if Cloanot is helping or not helping Amiga scene... Can you be more specific?
No, I can't... because I don't know if Cloanto is helping, or not helping, the Amiga scene. Like I said earlier, I just can't see how they are hurting the community... and, that I believe that they are selling a product worth paying for (since people apparently are paying for the product). No ethics put into it all (hence I didn't reply to the post asking me if the mafia was worth paying for since people are paying for it; that was just ridicilous and completely not my point).

What I was trying to say in my previous post, though, was that if the people with material on the Clonato DVD's haven't complained about their material being 'flogged' I don't really see the problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis
Just small example. I'm talking to someone who never had an Amiga. He moved from C64 to PC. I explain him that Amiga had nice sound/gfx, that a lot of C64 games have been made on Amiga too and that they look and play better.

He likes to try it, but it is illegal until he buys roms from Cloanto. (and rest of the crap that they sell)

And this is where his interest in Amiga ends.
Since when have people, in general, bothered about what is illegal or not (when it comes to this very matter)? Now, seriosly... how many people have decided AGAINST emulating this or that system because they can't obtain the files needed for the emulation legally?

I do see your point, however, but I don't believe for a second that it has hurt the community to any large extent that the ROM's isn't freely distributable, because people will find ways of obtaining for them free anyways. But, yes, of course, if the ROM's were free and free to use for whatever one wants to use them for... things would look different.

Edit: just to get something clarified (which I do not know much about); do Cloanto own the rights to everything related to the earler Amiga ROM's? In other words, are they the one with ownership of the ROM's and thus, are they the ones which decides wether or not the old kickstard/ROM's are to be released for free or not?

Last edited by Legerdemain; 02 October 2006 at 11:19.
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Old 02 October 2006, 11:31   #57
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while i dislile the fact kickstart roms are copyrighted still, i don't agree with you guys insulting Cloanto for being its businness. law is from their side, even if they have for sure limited somehow the amiga emulation scene in the last years. limited of a little amount probably!
damn, you guys that complain have probably not refrained from emulation for sure, and while some of you may have had the original thing and extracted the kickstart from it i can hardly imagine you go buying the rom from Cloanto for the purpose of emulation, but the one guy that has declared so.
but you are emulating nevertheless.
c'mon, what do you consider helping the scene instead? come in EAB and post some poll of your fave game? this discussion is infantile as it can get imho.
please be my guest and continue, who knows, maybe that company, awestruck like from a lighting out of the blue, will drop any and all copyrights, give free amigas at the corner of the street to hungry and homeless children
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Old 02 October 2006, 11:33   #58
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cloanto don't own the kickstarts, they pay a licence
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Old 02 October 2006, 11:40   #59
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Quote:
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cloanto don't own the kickstarts, they pay a licence
thanks for the correction, more so what i say.
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Old 02 October 2006, 11:42   #60
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Well my point is the following, cloanto's product is excellent for those
how don't have anymore an amiga.

But for others, which have the real machines, about kickstarts mainly,
what's the point in Paying TWICE for something we already own ?

Using custom ROMs without any copyrighted code lines could be the solution.
and i heard it exist.

Pay to support ok, pay again for something you have already paid for
is ripping off people, and worse, doesn't bring anything good to the amiga.

Support is needed to people that dare developping new softwares for our machine. That is the most important to me.

don't you think guys ? ^^
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