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View Poll Results: Do you own/use Amiga Forever? - Multiple Choice Poll
Yes I find it a very useful package 21 14.48%
Yes it is worth the money 15 10.34%
Yes but I thought it was too expensive 14 9.66%
Yes but there are better alternatives 8 5.52%
Yes but it was not of much use to me and was a waste of money 12 8.28%
No 86 59.31%
I would consider it if there was a Lite version 10 6.90%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 06 November 2006, 19:47   #221
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@lopos

It's not a matter of those being able to afford it buying it. If someone can afford a $1500 computer, they can afford a $100 operating system. It's a matter of them not wanting to pay for it, no matter what the price, not that they can't afford it. (Look at the amount of budget labels that are pirated...)
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Old 02 January 2012, 04:06   #222
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>I disagree. I have both and they both look the same to me. Neither are DV quality.

No, I have both and they are most certainly not the same.
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Old 02 January 2012, 14:41   #223
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6 year old thread resurrection. Why?
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Old 02 January 2012, 15:19   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunbot View Post
I believe the people who bemoan Cloanto for making money off of this software are the same ones who refused to upgrade from their A500 to an A3000 because "It looks like a pc" or refused to buy an A1200 because "It's so expensive" This cheapness helped bury Commodore and all the software houses who had their games pirated a day after release. You tightwads killed the Amiga community so don't try to lay blame on everyone else.
No it's not - I blame Medhiling Ali for his 'contribution'... even C= do on the Deathbed Vigil

Meh, I've bought Cloanto licenses in the past. Would I buy again or upgrade? Most likely not - expensive for what it is and its not like the money we pay Cloanto is actually going to the guys who created the ROMs/Workbench originally. Maybe an email to R.J. Mical is in order to see if he gets royalites from Workbench licencing?
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Old 02 January 2012, 16:40   #225
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Originally Posted by zenox98 View Post
6 year old thread resurrection. Why?
Well, why not? But in this case there is a more specific reason: I was updating my opinion piece to include a section about Amiga Forever (among other topics) and searching for my list of 10 problems with that package. While reading the thread, I also noticed an inaccurate statement about the included DVD and therefore made a post in response to it.

Last edited by Minuous; 02 January 2012 at 16:45.
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Old 02 January 2012, 17:36   #226
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I mostly have my money spent for much worse things. Since 2004 3 times Amiga Forever, once with the DVDs and I'm happy with it. And using Amikit for my installation, it's really nice.
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Old 02 January 2012, 18:39   #227
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anyway,dont need it and never will,short answer is no.
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Old 03 January 2012, 04:49   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guru64 View Post
* The fuckin Kickstart and Workbench should by now be a free download. Those fatass execs who managed to buy the rights are making cash off Amiga Nostalgia fans with something they didn't contribute the slightest to develop.

* On their Website they state " This makes it possible to run thousands of Amiga games and demos which are available for free download from software publishers and Amiga history sites alike."
- Yeah right, they should add "from Amiga history sites which we haven't yet harrased, sued and tried to milk for cash".

* On one hand they are 'protecting' the Kickstart from 'being pirated', and on the other hand they try to sell their glorious overpriced package by seducing their customers to download Amiga games for free.
Basically a "don't pirate OUR stuff, but we don't give a shit about all the games by other companies and their rights".

* Most of the Amiga Forever package comes from other people's hard work: Linux, UAE, Fellow, Demos (even by Pirate Group!!! Scoopex), Picasse96, etc, etc.
So basically they sell 'their' Kernel for 40 bucks on a CD where 98% of content is just picked up from other peoples work...

It would be better for the whole Amiga scene if that company just died!
Amen brother!

Amiga Forever is for clueless losers, there I said it! What!

(Moral:go and torrent the shit out of it so they might give up and maybe just maybe KS/WB will become worthless to slimey copyright lawyers. They expect you to pay them for a FREE emulator someone else wrote AND DOWNLOAD ILLEGAL ADFs from the internet to make any use of it.)
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Old 03 January 2012, 04:56   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glwxxx View Post
taken from http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-122.html

"We like to believe that Amiga emulation has in general been well-accepted also because, thanks to Amiga Forever, it is properly licensed and supported. If that were not the case, the situation of Amiga emulation in 1997 or 1998 could have been similar to what happened to other systems: police raids, legal actions, court battles, etc. Under such circumstances, many programmers, as they have stated, would not create any Amiga emulation software, or any new versions thereof, and there may be little left of the Amiga emulation scene. Instead, Amiga emulation evolved and prospered."
And translated to English in the real world....

"We gave the programmer of WinUAE a bag of monkey nuts and a few Amigas, we licensed the ROMs from some scumbag called Bill, we then made it LESS easy to use than compilations available for 99p and to top it off we make no effort to plow our sick profits back into REAL Amiga hardware products like Natami or MiniMig development/cost reduction through large scale manufacture. PS please take our shit crippled overpriced compilation and then proceed to go onto some dubious websites and download some illegal ADFs for use with a product we didn't even program and a scene we plough ZERO % of our profits back into."


While I am here I would like to point out.....you know that old crusty A500/A1200 etc in the loft that stopped working last decade? Yeah that thing entitles you to FREELY DOWNLOAD the corresponding version of KICKSTART ROM from ANYWHERE on the internet AND WORKBENCH ADF files, there I said it! What!
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Old 03 January 2012, 09:06   #230
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Cloanto bashing on EAB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
I also noticed an inaccurate statement about the included DVD and therefore made a post in response to it.
An inaccurate statement in this thread, or on the Amiga Forever site?

This thread is full of inaccurate statements! Yet for some reason EAB keeps it alive.

Not that parts like "A recent study of prostitutes well learned in the craft of sucking balls showed that even that is preferable to using Amiga Forever" aren't entertaining... Is that why everyone is reading EAB?

As for some examples of "accuracy":
  • Cloanto are not the only Amiga ROM/OS licensees (see a long list at http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122), many other companies have/had their opportunity at publishing Amiga ROM /OS content
  • Cloanto supports AROS
  • If somebody reports a site to Cloanto, they are legally obliged to act, as was stated in other posts (for example, Cloanto may fear that the report comes from some lawyer in incognito who is testing them); the Amiga community is full of spies who promptly report illegal content, yet here it seems to be easier to blame Cloanto...
  • There is a Value Edition of Amiga Forever for $9.95 (or free with TrialPay)
  • Workbench 3.1 ADFs are included in Amiga Forever, and so are hardfile images of different versions.

I don't know why James Jacobs aka Minuous is reviving this old thread (it has more false statements than accurate ones), but I've seen him also in other forums, and he seems to often be involved with some anti-Cloanto crusade. Maybe he can post his true motives so we can get a more "accurate" understanding?
 
Old 03 January 2012, 12:52   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub83 View Post
An inaccurate statement in this thread, or on the Amiga Forever site?

In this thread.

Not that parts like "A recent study of prostitutes well learned in the craft of sucking balls showed that even that is preferable to using Amiga Forever" aren't entertaining... Is that why everyone is reading EAB?

As for some examples of "accuracy":
  • Cloanto are not the only Amiga ROM/OS licensees (see a long list at http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122), many other companies have/had their opportunity at publishing Amiga ROM /OS content
  • Cloanto supports AROS
  • If somebody reports a site to Cloanto, they are legally obliged to act, as was stated in other posts (for example, Cloanto may fear that the report comes from some lawyer in incognito who is testing them); the Amiga community is full of spies who promptly report illegal content, yet here it seems to be easier to blame Cloanto...
  • There is a Value Edition of Amiga Forever for $9.95 (or free with TrialPay)
  • Workbench 3.1 ADFs are included in Amiga Forever, and so are hardfile images of different versions.

I don't know why James Jacobs aka Minuous is reviving this old thread (it has more false statements than accurate ones), but I've seen him also in other forums, and he seems to often be involved with some anti-Cloanto crusade. Maybe he can post his true motives so we can get a more "accurate" understanding?
Most of the anti-Cloanto posts have been written by other people, so I am hardly alone in disliking it. Obviously I have a strongly held opinion on the matter and so when I am involved in discussions about it I will assert that opinion. Would it be better for you if sometimes I supported it and sometimes did not? This would not be logical and would not fairly represent my viewpoint. Calling it a "crusade" implies some kind of religious component to it, which is just silly. You sound like a Cloanto shill, how much are they paying you? They already tried to bribe me for my silence.

I have already explained my reason for adding a one-sentence post to this thread, so please reread my previous post. In a wider sense, my motivation is to help the Amiga community to not get ripped off by paying money for something that is available for free, has various technical issues, and is sold by a company with a history of reprehensible conduct.

I'm not aware of anything Cloanto have ever done to support AROS, but even if so, AROS isn't really much to do with the Amiga except that some very old programs can be recompiled to run on it. AROS has various problems with it, I won't go into details here, but you can read my opinion piece at http://amigan.1emu.net/aw/opinions.txt
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Old 03 January 2012, 13:58   #232
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I think the whole 'play fair and legal by us, and then use it to leech everyone elses work', combined with their strict letter-of-the-law stance of things is a load of hypocritical crap basically. It's not a matter of if they have the right to sell the ROMs or not - it's the fact they present making copies of everyone elses software as a selling point.

But then again I have an A1200 and a boxed set of original workbench disks I'm using on the real hardware so I can give them the middle finger whilst still being compliant
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Old 03 January 2012, 16:22   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenox98 View Post
6 year old thread resurrection. Why?
Sometimes browsing old threads are interesting i guess

For the price of it and just being legal to use anything else its value for money
Just order the thing ....pop it on a shelf somewhere.....then make your own workbench and setup as you like.

Even i own it....Just call me Saint Synchro
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Old 03 January 2012, 23:13   #234
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I like it for just how easy it was to get up and going I first used it when I
was just getting back into the Amiga so it was a big help there..

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Old 04 January 2012, 00:25   #235
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Cloanto bashing on EAB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
Calling it a "crusade" implies some kind of religious component to it, which is just silly.
No, it can also mean something like "a vigorous concerted movement". You could have used a dictionary before posting, but maybe fact checking is not your strength.

Do you have an opinion about the other emulation packages, like Amiga Classix by Epic Marketing, or the iPhone app by Manomio? Have you ever tried reporting a piracy site to Hyperion, and see if they too (have to) shut down sites? Or do you just have a problem with Cloanto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
They already tried to bribe me for my silence.
Bribe you? How??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
paying money for something that is available for free
Do you mean you are promoting software piracy on EAB, or how else would this be available "for free"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
has various technical issues
Technical issues, like...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
is sold by a company with a history of reprehensible conduct.
Any evidence to back these allegations of "reprehensible conduct"?
 
Old 04 January 2012, 01:05   #236
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I never realised there was such an "Anti cloanto" faction going around.... I just always thought of them as a cheap way to legally own the roms.

As much as i think they should be freely available unfortunatly they are not...I own the Amiga and C64 versions.....Simply as a preservation thing like the stuff i create.
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Old 04 January 2012, 04:58   #237
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Originally Posted by synchro View Post
I never realised there was such an "Anti cloanto" faction going around.... I just always thought of them as a cheap way to legally own the roms.

As much as i think they should be freely available unfortunatly they are not...I own the Amiga and C64 versions.....Simply as a preservation thing like the stuff i create.
I do understand people who have this attitude, and hence purchase it, but the simple fact is they are doing nothing with their profits for Amiga hardware project funding and they are doing nothing regarding getting the classic game ADFs legalized. People get fed up with their pimping of other people's hard work.

Bit two faced really, and well they didn't write Kickstart, Workbench or WinUAE is my attitude. And like I said if you own any Amiga (working or not) you're LEGALLY ENTITLED TO HAVE DIGITAL ROM FILES (regardless of how you obtained them...ie torrents) TO USE WINAUE

PS do they give you Personal Paint with Amiga Forever?
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Old 04 January 2012, 07:39   #238
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Well the kickstart rom is actually a "chip" in reality so if you own an amiga dead or alive you are correct !!
However the only other way is to have a licence to use it which cloanto does make it possible....As roms are really illegal to host for downloading im not sure just downloading a rom is the same thing.....But i guess you could say i got it off my old amiga which i threw away a year ago ?
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Old 04 January 2012, 11:27   #239
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>Do you have an opinion about the other emulation packages, like Amiga Classix by Epic Marketing, or the iPhone app by Manomio? Have you ever tried reporting a piracy site to Hyperion, and see if they too (have to) shut down sites? Or do you just have a problem with Cloanto?

I haven't used them, so no, I don't have an opinion. But all the iPhone apps I have ever tried have been total crap so I wouldn't be surprised if this one was crap too.

>Bribe you? How??

They sent me a copy of Amiga Forever that I had never ordered. Which would have pleased me if it was a good product, but when I tried it out it just confirmed the problems about which I had already heard from others.

>Do you mean you are promoting software piracy on EAB, or how else would this be available "for free"?

You can get the emulator around which the package is based from http://www.winuae.net

>Technical issues, like...?

Bringing down the system on the first of the provided games that I tried...Also, including mismatched AmigaOS components gathered from various different OS releases, which are not even *supposed* to work correctly together, causing various issues when trying to run OS-compliant software.

>Any evidence to back these allegations of "reprehensible conduct"?

Yes, all the Bluehost nonsense. Plus promising to use funds from Amiga Forever to fund new versions of eg. PPaint, and then not doing so.
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Old 04 January 2012, 12:52   #240
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Wink

Quote:
You can get the emulator around which the package is based from http://www.winuae.net
Yes thats winuae its free and thats the whole point !!
you can use winuae but you still need the kickstart roms....if you asked the current Rom owners to buy a licence directly to use and sell your setup with the roms included then it would probably cost you thousands

Like my launcher for instance...if i could afford it i could probably easily build and sell my own version....even you could do it

All cloanto have done is take that step...paid out the money....and sell thier product.....Its a profit making business....At the end of the day whether it be cloanto or epic marketing they have to pay out a small fortune for the rights to use the roms ( Not Winuae ) ..whether you like thier setups or not does not matter ...

Its like saying......You can buy a car but you need a driving licence.....but why should you if you hate Skoda's ..there crap...they crash a lot...not reliable..they promised a twincam cigar lighter !!

Whatever you choose to drive you need the licence.....the end result is purchasing cloanto will avoid all the hassles above...let them do that for you

I dont see the problem for the end result....a cheap way to legally own the roms

PS !! Anyone want to fund me Building one and selling it.....I can call it Cloan II

Last edited by synchro; 04 January 2012 at 13:06.
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