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Old 12 July 2006, 01:09   #1
JackAsser
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[factory] EoB engines' structure investigation

Perhaps we should start a CVS project and setup some docs there so that we have nice versioning support. We should start formalize the documentation and glue together all bits and pieces that we've found out up until today.

Currently I'm in heavy work load at work so I personally can't involve myself right now, but I'm eager to fill in the docs with my findings in a few week. I think we really should do this, because now it seems like me, DK2 and all you others are sitting on partial documentation and it's really easy that some of us drop off or something and then important pieces are lost.

A nice formal document which describes the different file formats and the difference between the platforms would be nice (Amiga, PC EGA, PC VGA etc).

What do you guys think? Sorry for talking and not taking action personally.
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Old 12 July 2006, 09:29   #2
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Quote:
Recently Paul Müller was mentioned by DK2 here. I also got some specs from JackAsser made by him (thanx!) . I did a quick search on the net and found out that he is hosting the JAD project on sourceforge. (quote from the project home page: dungeon crawling game in the spirit of "Eye of the Beholder" and "Dungeon Master".)
Yes, Paul Muller's idea (who give me many useful specs) was a similar game in spirit of EoB, but then he found more simple to use the data from EoB and recreate the engine. Unfortunately he put the project in "hold" and I do not now if is still thinking to continue his work - but we can write to him to know the status
Very interesting (if still there) is the reverse engineering for EoB, you must digg deeper in the CVS and you find assembler decompiles, txt, and other docs/codes (mainly commented in german...).

Quote:
Perhaps we should start a CVS project and setup some docs there so that we have nice versioning support. We should start formalize the documentation and glue together all bits and pieces that we've found out up until today.
My idea too.
Really, I have in mind a wiki so it's simpler add contribute from various people (with some sort of spam protection) where put old Westwood games spec, starting from EoB to Lands of Lore, Kyrandia saga and Dune2 (for C&C there is enough documentation, but maybe could be useful put also this games).
Something like ScummVM wiki or Xentax GRAFs
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Old 12 July 2006, 10:11   #3
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Originally Posted by DK2
My idea too.
Really, I have in mind a wiki so it's simpler add contribute from various people (with some sort of spam protection) where put old Westwood games spec, starting from EoB to Lands of Lore, Kyrandia saga and Dune2 (for C&C there is enough documentation, but maybe could be useful put also this games).
Something like ScummVM wiki or Xentax GRAFs
Yeah, but for your information the Kyrandia series is already covered by the ScummVM. The latest ScummVM have full support for Kyrandia I.

Anyways, I'll start writing down what I have so far. I guess I'll have to reverse engineer my own source(!) to get the info I need because I have forgotten most of it.

More importantly, when I started my maze explorer I did a custom hexviewer that allows you to separate the hex-codes and add commentary to the binary. I think I'll extend that tool abit and then start documenting using that tool.
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Old 12 July 2006, 13:06   #4
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Yeah, but for your information the Kyrandia series is already covered by the ScummVM. The latest ScummVM have full support for Kyrandia I.
Are you referring to this?
http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Kyra
Well, ehm, I think they forgot to add some format like CPS, DLG, MSK, PAK, SHP, WSA, ADL, FNT, EMC ...
Ok, there is the source...but I think a quick spec is better than try to understand some C code (if you can understand C code).

Quote:
Anyways, I'll start writing down what I have so far. I guess I'll have to reverse engineer my own source(!) to get the info I need because I have forgotten most of it.
eh eh eh, and I try to convert and integrate my docs into something better.

So, we must decide the system, we want to use wiki? Or others?

For moderators - it's ok continue with this topic here or we must post it on another thread?
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Old 12 July 2006, 13:42   #5
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Heys Xyquaatu,
you might find that this helps to compile it.
http://www.koders.com/c/fidF9828F379...6F89100B4.aspx
SDLGL.h and SDLGL.c are both available here.
The source of eobclone includes them, but i could'nt find a "typedef struct { ... } SDLGL_INPUT; "
When i have more time left (in a few weeks), i will play with the sources und see what i can do with them...

Quote:
in particular in this sourceforge project, i question the camera point of view, that gets me out of the action. (of course i see only the screenshots presented);
I agree, i prefer the classic 3d rendering in an eob clone too. For real 3D you need 3D meshes to make it look acceptable wich aren't part of the game.

Quote:
Very interesting (if still there) is the reverse engineering for EoB, you must digg deeper in the CVS and you find assembler decompiles, txt, and other docs/codes (mainly commented in german...).
I looked again, they are still there on the cemetery.

Quote:
Something like ScummVM wiki or Xentax GRAFs
Someone started already a wiki with this aim. You can find it here: http://rewiki.regengedanken.de/wiki/Main_Page
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Old 12 July 2006, 14:35   #6
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Someone started already a wiki with this aim. You can find it here: http://rewiki.regengedanken.de/wiki/Main_Page
Yes, I know this wiki, but someone know the owner. I means, it's reliable or he (or website) can disappear?
I collaborate with www.kyrandia.nl, and after tons of spam isn't there, so I fear can happen the same to this site.
However we can put there the spec, and if go down, we can always go on other site (of course we must make backups...)
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Old 12 July 2006, 15:19   #7
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Originally Posted by DK2
Yes, I know this wiki, but someone know the owner. I means, it's reliable or he (or website) can disappear?
I collaborate with www.kyrandia.nl, and after tons of spam isn't there, so I fear can happen the same to this site.
However we can put there the spec, and if go down, we can always go on other site (of course we must make backups...)
Ok DK2, could you start a wiki then? Let's fill that bastard with goddies. :-)
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Old 12 July 2006, 15:43   #8
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I'd love to help

just let me know how

[edit]

having a hard time trying to get my head round the method for scripting cells / face activity, but getting there.... slowly... but surely....

p.s. loving the void pointers at the mo.... || is it loving me? hmm certain amounts of ownage happening... (and a whole hell of dot net gheyness!)
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Old 12 July 2006, 17:22   #9
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Wikispace setup

http://eob.wikispaces.com/

Message me if you want admin access to it.
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Old 12 July 2006, 18:48   #10
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Thanks Jack
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Old 12 July 2006, 23:06   #11
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Ok, thanks.
I'll start adding docs in the next days.
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Old 12 July 2006, 23:17   #12
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Diskussion on the Wiki!

Don't miss out the discussion tabs above each page in the wiki. I've done some correction to the .maz page and also added some commentary so that you may fix the errors. Good work! keep it coming.
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Old 13 July 2006, 00:08   #13
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Filling the wiki

Ok, I've added some info to the .inf, .cps and .dat files. I'll fill in the .vpn and .vcn files tomorrow and how they relate to the others.

Currently I've skipped alot in the .inf files. Especially the first 0x1f4 bytes. The reason I skiped that was because that data wasn't important for me when doing the maze explorer since I manually specified wall set type at command line.

Please feel free to add stuff into the wiki and correct me at places when I've been wrong etc.

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Old 13 July 2006, 00:49   #14
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Thanks! I joined your wiki. Will this wiki only contain information about Amiga english EOB1?

What about differences between PC/Amiga, english/german Version, EOB1/EOB2?
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Old 13 July 2006, 00:52   #15
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Yes all this informations needs to be reported !

for example, the files levelxx.inf are compressed in the english version, but are not in the german version, and are named instead levelxx.elo
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Old 13 July 2006, 00:57   #16
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I think so too, it wont be too hard, just to mention, depict the subtle differneces or if worst case senario lump in another page.

and yes... i spotted the mistakes JA, and promptly slapped myself in the face... i just got a little to excited and tapping madness just sprung in.

thanks for the correcto's
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Old 13 July 2006, 01:03   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyquaatu
Thanks! I joined your wiki. Will this wiki only contain information about Amiga english EOB1?

What about differences between PC/Amiga, english/german Version, EOB1/EOB2?
I certainly hope so. However the information I personally fill in only compiled to Eye of the Beholder I - Amiga Version. Because this is the only version I personally need to investigate. However please feel free to change the disposition of the wiki and add information about version differences etc! The more the merrier!
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Old 13 July 2006, 01:04   #18
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Originally Posted by Zetr0
I think so too, it wont be too hard, just to mention, depict the subtle differneces or if worst case senario lump in another page.

and yes... i spotted the mistakes JA, and promptly slapped myself in the face... i just got a little to excited and tapping madness just sprung in.

thanks for the correcto's
Hehe, no problem, keep on adding! Next stop for me are the .vcn and vpn files + describing the field of vision and how to propery position and render the wall + decorations.
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Old 13 July 2006, 01:37   #19
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looking forward to it.

changed the page about, and adopted a more formal descriptive. let me know if you like.

gonna tackle a little on the scripting data. what concerns me is that from what i seen of it, its pretty engine specific. we may have to make assumptions and pray to the gods and have a good couple of sacrifices
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Old 13 July 2006, 11:57   #20
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are you guys interested to other versions of EoB? Dizzy pointed me to 2 pages:
http://www.thehouseofgames.net/index.php?t=10&id=31
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/snes/b/eye.htm
whych display snes and megacd version, this latter one should even have speech
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