Playing NTSC games through WinUAE

[DamienD]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anybody can help me out?

I'm trying to test Out of this World which I believe is an NTSC game.

Just a few quick questions relating to testing NTSC games in WinUAE...

1) What kickstart do I need to use? Kickstart v1.0 (A1000)(NTSC).rom or Kickstart v1.1 (A1000)(NTSC) rev 31.34.rom or is the standard Kickstart v1.3 (A500,A1000,A2000) rev 34.5.rom ok?

2) From under Hardware --> Chipset, do I need to tick NTSC from under Chipset Type?


Here's what I've tried so far:

a) Using normal Kickstart v1.3 (A500,A1000,A2000) rev 34.5.rom and ticking NTSC, I can finish the first level. I'm then asked for disk 2, it starts loading but then stops...

b) Using Kickstart v1.0 (A1000)(NTSC).rom and ticking NTSC, the game doesn't even load to the protection screen...

c) Once when using Kickstart v1.1 (A1000)(NTSC) rev 31.34.rom and ticking NTSC, I could finish the first level. I'm then asked for disk 2 and level 2 did load sucessfully. However, now when I try the same config again the game doesn't even load to the protection screen...

[Toni Wilen]

KS 1.0 and 1.1 had separate PAL and NTSC versions. 1.2 and later support both.

NTSC-checkbox checked and KS 1.3 should equal NTSC A500.

[demoniac]

Yes, use either KS1.2 or 1.3 w/ NTSC checkboxed.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

KS 1.0 and 1.1 had separate PAL and NTSC versions. 1.2 and later support both.

NTSC-checkbox checked and KS 1.3 should equal NTSC A500.

Cheers for the information Toni, much appreciated

Hmmm, I wonder why when using Kickstart v1.3 (A500,A1000,A2000) rev 34.5.rom + ticking NTSC the game stops loading after disk 2 is inserted? Off to test some more...

[Belgarath]

Have you tried it with Cycle Exact on? Also it might be a dodgy second disk.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Belgarath

Have you tried it with Cycle Exact on? Also it might be a dodgy second disk.

I'm using the exact same config as I used with Another World (except NTSC ticked of course). Cycle Exact is on

Yeah I thought it may be a dodgy Disk 2 but once I when using one of the NTSC kickstarts I was able to load Level 2 successfully

[DamienD]

Hmmm, I'm using Quickstart Amiga 500 / Amiga 2000 but changed the following:

... Cycle exact CPU and blitter.
... Only 1 disk drive.
... 640x480 / full screen / scanlines.

Bad news... When playing the CPU: runs at 120% virtually all the time

Switched off full screen and the game runs between 40% - 80%

I usually use full screen on PAL games without any issues, any ideas why using full screen with NTSC is sending the CPU crazy

Finally, I am still unable to get the game to load Level 2 successfully

demoniac, do you want to have a try and see if you can get to Level 2?

[demoniac]

I'll give it a shot next week as I'll be busy this weekend.

[DamienD]

Hmmm, just tried playing Dyna Blaster in WinUAE...

Basically, only one of the cracked versions of this game has a PAL fix "Dyna Blaster (1991)(Hudson Soft)[cr VF][T + 11 ZNT].adf" but unfortunately it also has the cheats enabled by default. See this thread http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=21217

I thought I may as well try the .ipf file and change my config to NTSC (from under Hardware --> Chipset, tick NTSC from under Chipset Type)...

Unfortunately I have the same issue that I had with Out of this World i.e. when Full Screen is selected the CPU goes crazy... It sits at 138%

If I untick Full Screen the games runs normally.

What am I doing wrong? Can anybody help me out with running NTSC .adf games through WinUAE without having the CPU go through the roof

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hmmm, just tried playing Dyna Blaster in WinUAE...

Basically, only one of the cracked versions of this game has a PAL fix "Dyna Blaster (1991)(Hudson Soft)[cr VF][T + 11 ZNT].adf" but unfortunately it also has the cheats enabled by default. See this thread http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=21217

I thought I may as well try the .ipf file and change my config to NTSC (from under Hardware --> Chipset, tick NTSC from under Chipset Type)...

Unfortunately I have the same issue that I had with Out of this World i.e. when Full Screen is selected the CPU goes crazy... It sits at 138%

If I untick Full Screen the games runs normally.

What am I doing wrong? Can anybody help me out with running NTSC .adf games through WinUAE without having the CPU go through the roof

Try the NTSC 60 Hz monitor mode for Dynablaster and all is fine. No need for use the NTSC chipset setting.

Edit: Even with NTSC chipset setting only on the Vision Factory crack the game works with a proper sound.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Try the NTSC 60 Hz monitor mode for Dynablaster and all is fine. No need for use the NTSC chipset setting.

Maybe I'm being stupid (not the first time) but I don't understand what you mean? How do I set NTSC 60 Hz monitor mode?

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Edit: Even with NTSC chipset setting only on the Vision Factory crack the game works with a proper sound.

Hmmm, the VF .adf quoted above works fine with sound using PAL settings. The problem is that the silly cheat is enabled automatically even though I turn everything off in the trainer (must be set through the "code")... This is no fun to play when you always start with maximum bomb length

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Maybe I'm being stupid (not the first time) but I don't understand what you mean? How do I set NTSC 60 Hz monitor mode?


Yes, but it has the silly cheat enabled. This is no fun when you play with maximum bomb length

I guess you can't play the IPF, because you don't have the 4-player adaptor. It works like a copy protection for this game. All cracked versions without the PAL fix should run fine with 60 Hz NTSC mode. You can choose it in the display settings, right next to the color depth. Untick the Vsync for this game.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I guess you can't play the IPF, because you don't have the 4-player adaptor. It works like a copy protection for this game.

No, I can play the .ipf but this suffers from the sound issue when in PAL mode.

When using NTSC mode (from under Hardware --> Chipset, tick NTSC from under Chipset Type) I cannot get Full Screen to work without the CPU going crazy

This is what I would really like a solution to as it affects Out of this World also

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

All cracked versions without the PAL fix should run fine with 60 Hz NTSC mode. You can choose it in the display settings, right next to the color depth. Untick the Vsync for this game.

I never tick Vsync...

Where is this option in display settings? I've searched in WinUAE + the settings for my graphics card but with no luck... A screenshot would be nice since I'm being a retard

[Retro-Nerd]

[DamienD]

I don't understand. Your screenshot is in German... (joking my friend)

How did I miss that, trying now

I guess I should try this with Out of this World also hey

Off Topic but... Germany is winning 4 - 2

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

I don't understand. Your screenshot is in German... (joking my friend)

How did I miss that, trying now

Off Topic but... German is winning 3 - 2

4 - 2 for germany . The 60 hz setting should work.

[DamienD]

I would have thought so to

Bad news though...

Even with that setting selected I still have the issue with sound when using the .ipf file

Also tried ticking NTSC but made no difference

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hmmm, bad news...

Even with that setting selected I still have the issue with sound when using the .ipf file

Also tried ticking NTSC but made no difference

50 frames per second? 60 Hz, no Vsync? This MUST work, i read it somewhere and it works fine.

Edit: Even in 100 PAL WITHOUT VSYNC it work fine.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

50 frames per second? 60 Hz, no Vsync? This MUST work, i read it somewhere and it works fine.

Not for me it doesn't

Have you tried yourself?

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Not for me it doesn't

Have you tried yourself?

Yes, no problems here. Only with the Vsync ON there are problems with the sound. Work it in 100 Hz PAL?

Edit: Maybe you have a permanent Vsync settings in your graphic cards driver?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Yes, no problems here. Only with the Vsync ON there are problems with the sound. Work it in 100 Hz PAL?

Definitely no Vsync on...

Ok, trying now in 100Hz PAL mode

Back soon...

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Definitely no Vsync on...

Ok, trying now in 100Hz PAL mode

Back soon...

Check your graphic cards driver settings for Vsync settings. My NVidia card has a "Vsync only selected by application" feature. A permanent Vsync setting can cause your trouble.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Check your graphic cards driver settings for Vsync settings. My NVidia card has a "Vsync only selected by application" feature. A permanent Vsync setting can cause your trouble.

Damn it, 100Hz PAL mode doesn't work either

Looked through all my graphics card setting and there is nothing about Vsync. BTW I have an ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 in my IBM ThinkPad T30...

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Damn it, 100Hz PAL mode doesn't work either

Looked through all my graphics card setting and there is nothing about Vsync. BTW I have an ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 in my IBM ThinkPad T30...

I never used a ATI card. I like the NVidia detonator driver, easy to configure. Maybe other ATI users can help you, sorry.

Edit: have you tried the 100 % exact sound setting?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I never used a ATI card. I like the NVidia detonator driver, easy to configure. Maybe other ATI users can help you, sorry.

True...

Although, I must say what would really help me out (and other .adf users). Somebody talented (like -Rob-, CodyJarett, CFOU!, demoniac, Galahad or musashi9) to crack the original .ipf file and apply a PAL fix (without any trainers)

or

Solve the NTSC problem I'm having (I know you've tried very hard my friend and I appreciate this but I need a solution that isn't graphics card specific)...

I would be the happiest man alive

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

True...

Although I must say that what would really help me (and other .adf users) would be for somebody talented (like -Rob-, CodyJarett, CFOU!, demoniac, Galahad or musashi9) to crack the original .ipf file and apply a PAL fix (without any trainers)

I would be the happiest man alive

Have you tried this? Posted by dlfrsilver.

I have a hint for those who have a problem with the 60hz NTSC screen mode.

Press BOTH mouse button during game loading, the screen will be in 50hz

[DamienD]

Yup, and it does work. Just a pain to remember all the time...

Thanks dlfrsilver

The ultmate solution still would be for some talented programmer like -Rob-, CodyJarett, CFOU!, demoniac, Galahad or musashi9 to crack the original .ipf file and apply a PAL fix (without any trainers)...

This would make all .adf PAL user's life great

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Yup, and it does work. Just a pain to remember all the time...

Thanks dlfrsilver

The ultmate solution still would be for some talented programmer like -Rob-, CodyJarett, CFOU!, demoniac, Galahad or musashi9 to crack the original .ipf file and apply a PAL fix (without any trainers)...

This would make all .adf PAL users life great

This hint was in your old Dynablaster Thread, but i guess you forgot about.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

This hint was in your old Dynablaster Thread, but i guess you forgot about.

Yes, I've now added this fix into my custom cheats / fixes text file that I keep with all games in their folders...

The problem being is that anybody who is not a regular user / reader of EAB will have any idea why the sound is jumping (and not mention me when I don't play the game for 6 months / 1 year)

I believe the Amiga community needs a fully working .adf PAL version of Dyna Blaster without cheats enabled by default. It's a fun, cool game

Who's up for the job

PS. Damn, I wish I knew more about programming besides batch files (which isn't really programming). If I did I'd be trying to fix all those old cracks that don't work 100%

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anybody can help me out?

I'm trying to test Out of this World which I believe is an NTSC game.

Just a few quick questions relating to testing NTSC games in WinUAE...

1) What kickstart do I need to use? Kickstart v1.0 (A1000)(NTSC).rom or Kickstart v1.1 (A1000)(NTSC) rev 31.34.rom or is the standard Kickstart v1.3 (A500,A1000,A2000) rev 34.5.rom ok?

2) From under Hardware --> Chipset, do I need to tick NTSC from under Chipset Type?


Here's what I've tried so far:

a) Using normal Kickstart v1.3 (A500,A1000,A2000) rev 34.5.rom and ticking NTSC, I can finish the first level. I'm then asked for disk 2, it starts loading but then stops...

b) Using Kickstart v1.0 (A1000)(NTSC).rom and ticking NTSC, the game doesn't even load to the protection screen...

c) Once when using Kickstart v1.1 (A1000)(NTSC) rev 31.34.rom and ticking NTSC, I could finish the first level. I'm then asked for disk 2 and level 2 did load sucessfully. However, now when I try the same config again the game doesn't even load to the protection screen...

I had the same issue a while back. I had success playing this game with kickstart 2.04, although the car skidding sound at the beginning sounded funky. Perhaps kickstart 3.1 will work as well.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by rbdgg

I had the same issue a while back. I had success playing this game with kickstart 2.04, although the car skidding sound at the beginning sounded funky. Perhaps kickstart 3.1 will work as well.

Hello rbdgg,

Welcome to EAB and thank you for your reply.

Trying different Kickstarts was my next step though I got bored with trying to get this working (especially after testing a few different versions of Another World over that past few days)

Guess I'll try Out of this World again with different Kickstarts when I can be bothered

What I would really like a solution to is being able to do is play NTSC games through WinUAE in Full Screen without the CPU going crazy

PS. thanks Retro-Nerd for all tips though...

[Retro-Nerd]

For the cpu usage of Out of this world: disable the Vsync and you get a normal value. With NTSC chipset & NTSC 120 Hz i get a cpu usage of 120 % as well. Without Vsync i have 11-15 %. The Another World protection wheel works well on the us version.

When this doesn't work for you i guess you have a permanent vsync setting in your graphic card driver.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

For the cpu usage of Out of this world: disable the Vsync and you get a normal value.

...but I don't have Vsync ticked (ever)

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

With NTSC chipset & NTSC 120 Hz i get a cpu usage of 120 % as well. Without Vsync i have 11-15 %.

It doesn't matter if I select Default, (50Hz) PAL, 60Hz NTSC, (100Hz) PAL or (120Hz) NTSC. With Full screen ticked it goes crazy

Strange that it works for you, must be my video card then

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

...but I don't have Vsync ticked (ever)


It doesn't matter if I select Default, (50Hz) PAL, 60Hz NTSC, (100Hz) PAL or (120Hz) NTSC. With Full screen ticked it goes crazy

Strange that it works for you, must be my video card then

Have you something like this in your driver setting?

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/an...-5/driver1.png

look at the Vertical Sync settings!!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Have you something like this in your driver setting?

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/an...-5/driver1.png

look at the Vertical Sync settings!!

Can't see you piccie but took a look again through my graphics card settings...

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/619...icscard9zn.jpg

Hmmm, Wait for Vertical Sync: is set to Application Preference. It's not selected in WinUAE though so would expect this to be cool.

I'll try selecting Always off and let you know what happens... Many thanks

[Retro-Nerd]

Normally the "Wait for Application Preference" setting is enough. I thought that the ATI driver has a ALWAYS ON setting but it seems that he doesn't. There should be no problems!!

Edit: You should set it back to "Application Preference" after testing or other emulators like Kega Fusion or Gens will not produce a smooth scrolling. Vsync is important for those emulators and others as well.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Normally the "Wait for Application Preference" setting is enough. I thought that the ATI driver has a ALWAYS ON setting but it seems that he doesn't. There should be no problems!!

Edit: You should set it back to "Application Preference" after testing or other emulators like Kega Fusion or Gens will not produce a smooth scrolling. Vsync is important for those emulators and others as well.

Cool, with Always off set the CPU doesn't go mental

Strange though that with Application Preference set on the graphics card and VSync not ticked in WinUAE I have this problem

On an note, tried leaving Always off set and running Dyna Blaster... I had NTSC ticked through WinUAE and tried Default, (50Hz) PAL, 60Hz NTSC, (100Hz) PAL or (120Hz) NTSC. Sound issues still present

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Cool, with Always off set the CPU doesn't go mental

Strange though that with Application Preference set on the graphics card and VSync not ticked in WinUAE I have this problem

On an note, tried leaving Always off set and running Dyna Blaster... I had NTSC ticked through WinUAE and tried Default, (50Hz) PAL, 60Hz NTSC, (100Hz) PAL or (120Hz) NTSC. Sound issues still present

Yes, very strange. btw: Dynablaster don't need a NTSC Chipset, only a 60 Hz NSTC monitor refreshrate without vsync. I don't know why its not working for you.

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Looked through all my graphics card setting and there is nothing about Vsync. BTW I have an ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 in my IBM ThinkPad T30...

Driver version? You can use http://www.driverheaven.net/patje/ to install regular new drivers if your laptop manufacturer only have old mobility drivers available.

Weird bug anyway because WinUAE only enables Vsync when VSync-checkbox is enabled. Setting in ATI control panel will be ignored except if you force-enable it. (which is not a good idea..)

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Driver version? You can use http://www.driverheaven.net/patje/ to install regular new drivers if your laptop manufacturer only have old mobility drivers available.

Thank you for that Toni.

Here's a screen capture of the drivers I'm using http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8712/ati75000lb.jpg

I downloaded them probably about 6 months ago from the IBM website. They don't release new versions very often

I'll check for later ones now on the IBM website and also Driver Heaven

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Weird bug anyway because WinUAE only enables Vsync when VSync-checkbox is enabled. Setting in ATI control panel will be ignored except if you force-enable it. (which is not a good idea..)

Yes, very strange considering it was set to "Application Preference" and Vsync is most definitely not ticked in WinUAE