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Old 04 December 2001, 15:30   #21
Tim Janssen
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Eek Puzzle bubble bob heroes

Korodny,
It seems you are right. I confused Puzzle Bobs with Bubble Heroes. When I saw the Puzzle Bobs-screenshots I was quite sure I read an Amiga Format review about it. Seems my memory was fuzzy again.
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Old 04 December 2001, 18:35   #22
Akira
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
with no new products. But still you can sell 500-1000 copies of a *good* title (which this
game certainly isn't)
aye, you just blew up my illusion before I tried the game

I dont believe in anything Amiga Inc. related, so they can stick that PPC motherboard up their (and Eyetech's ) arse, and let me play with my A600. I just hope you don't buy any of their pro-Amiga (all lies) propaganda, my friend.
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Old 04 December 2001, 18:45   #23
Kodoichi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
Please define 'old' ? The Amiga market is in really bad shape now due to another two years
with no new products.
That's what I'm trying to say. Amiga 'died' about 1996.

Quote:
Three years ago, the Voxel flight simulator "Shadow Of The Third Moon" sold 10.000 copies,
you won't sell much more copies of a Mac title.
Uhh... where do you got this number from?

Quote:
Just that you are not buying Amiga stuff anymore doesn't mean the market has completely
vanished
I think there's only one (online-)shop left here in Switzerland selling Amigastuff, compared to 1000's (10000?) of PC-shops... and I don't know anybody personally that still buys old-fashioned Amiga hard- or software. I'm not the only one that doesn't buy Amiga stuff anymore...
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Old 05 December 2001, 10:58   #24
Korodny
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@Akira:

> aye, you just blew up my illusion before I tried the game

Let's say I saved you one big dissapointment ;-)

> I dont believe in anything Amiga Inc. related, so they can stick that PPC motherboard up
> their (and Eyetech's ) arse, and let me play with my A600.

I agree that OS4 is not interesting for the retro-gaming crowd, and AInc certainly could do
a far better job when it comes to merketing - but I don't understand why you nearly *hate* them?

For us, the people that are actually *using* their Amigas for Word processing, DTP, Digital Video,
Internet or whatever else, OS4 is a brilliant opportunity to move on. It's just a bit late..

> I just hope you don't buy any of their pro-Amiga (all lies) propaganda, my friend.

I'm actually involved with OS4 development, so: Yes, I believe their lies Amiga Inc. are not
involved with OS4 development anymore, it's completely outsourced. The guys handling it now
(Hyperion Entertainment) are absolutely reliable and well up to the job. OS4 will be released
February 2002, I can promise that.
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Old 05 December 2001, 11:11   #25
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@s4murai:

> Uhh... where do you got this number from?

Both the development team and the distributer confirmed that number.

> I think there's only one (online-)shop left here in Switzerland selling Amigastuff, compared
> to 1000's (10000?) of PC-shops... and I don't know anybody personally that still buys
> old-fashioned Amiga hard- or software. I'm not the only one that doesn't buy Amiga stuff
> anymore...

Yes, but that doesn't mean it's completely insane to develop commercial Amiga stuff. There
would be a lot of insane teams otherwise:

PCI-Bridgboards are built by three different companies (Elbox, Matay, DCE). There are USB
expansions for the A1200 clockport. A new Zorro Soundcard will be available in December, aswell
as an improved Zorro2 Ethernet card.

Papyrus Office is currently getting ported, a port of RealSoft 3D is announced, aswell as a new
DigitalVideo suite ("Motionstudios"). Most major software packages are still regularly updated.

Games released in the last 12 months were Payback (GTA clone), Heretic 2, Sin (not released, to
slow un current Amigas - will be available for OS4), Shoogo, Descent Freespace, Simon the
Sorcerer 2, Earth 2140, Nightlong, Foundation Gold, Bubble Heroes, Napalm, Feeble Files. Ports of
Worms Armageddon, Soldiers of Fortune and Knights&Merchants are announced.
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Old 05 December 2001, 19:38   #26
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Argh! Hyperion! Those who port shitty PC games to the meega!

You know, to me the current Amiga stuff kind of lost the feeling of what Amiga really was, and I don't trust a bit of what Amiga Inc. says. My belief is that they just want to cash in with the Amiga name and take a dime out of amigans, that's all ... all promises, no action. I got sick, it's been like this for, like, 8 years already! So I get quite sad when I see current Amiga zealots (not you) defending those bastards to death, when I think Amiga actually is sticking a fist up their arses.

It's fine (nay, great!) to use an Amiga nowadays, adn I'd use one if I had the cash to buy one, but for my work, I just cant use an Amiga because the software I need is not there. But as my home computer, I'd take an expanded A1200/4000/3000 anyday. And I plan to build one, as soon as possible, though I dont think I'd stick a PPC in there, just an 060 MAX. But first, Ive got to buy a Mac (screw PCs, i got sick of 'em) for me to work with.

Good luck with OS4 development. Will it be PPC only? I know pish all about it (not that Im interested, but its good to haev some info )
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Old 05 December 2001, 22:07   #27
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@Akira:

> Argh! Hyperion! Those who port shitty PC games to the meega!

Well, I'd prefer unique Amiga games too, but unfortunately, the market is way too small for
that...

But Hyperion simply rule. You may not like their products, but these guys are die hard Amiga
fanatics. They're running a company that makes money with contract work for the Macintosh just
to spend that money on Amiga related stuff. E.g. they already know that they won't make money
with their Amiga port of RealSoft 3D, but still they'll port it.

The master minds behind Hyperion are the Frieden brothers (they are twins actually, and really
look exactly the same ). These guys are brilliant programmers (they were teaching OS design at
the university prior to founding Hyperion), especially when it comes to 3D stuff.

> You know, to me the current Amiga stuff kind of lost the feeling of what Amiga really was,

Same for me. Something like the Amiga (or the C64) will never happen again. Even if they'd build
a console that would be able to run XCopy and had some decent (non-3D games and a keyboard,
it wouldn't be the same anymore.

The hardware is outdated as hell, but the OS still rocks. IMHO, everything else is complete crap
compared to Sassenrath's and Mical's wonderful piece of art.

> and I don't trust a bit of what Amiga Inc. says. My belief is that they just want to cash in
> with the Amiga name and take a dime out of amigans, that's all ... all promises, no action.

They are not evil or something, just like children trying to run a company. Biiig goals, but
no idea how much work and money will be needed to achieve them. They're out of money for nearly
one year now (nobody will invest money in IT startups since the technology market collapsed).
The AmigaDE is a cool idea, but it has nothing to do with the "classic" Amiga.

Fortunately, some important persons from the Amiga community (Hyperion, H&P, even good old Petro)
were able to them into continuing development of the classic OS. That's all I need

> when I think Amiga actually is sticking a fist up their arses.

They're not involved with the AmigaOS anymore. That stuff is handled by Hyperion now, at least
for the next 1-2 years.

> But first, Ive got to buy a Mac (screw PCs, i got sick of 'em) for me to work with.

There's a (very) slight chance that OS4 will run on Macs (after all, a Mac is just another PPC
motherboard with an OpenFirmaWare FlashROM), so maybe you'll be back sooner than you
expect

> Good luck with OS4 development. Will it be PPC only? I know pish all about it (not that Im
> interested, but its good to haev some info )

Yes, PPC only. Will be available for Amiga 1200/3000/4000 PPC, for various G3/G4 accelerators
currently in development and for several PPC motherboards currently developed. Supports up to
date GFX and sound cards (latest ATI Radeon and the like) USB, later on FireWire. A port of
OS 3.9 to PPC with optional Virtual Memory, basic Memory protection and lots of minor
improvements. Will be released in February.
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Old 06 December 2001, 09:38   #28
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The only problem with porting PC games to the Amiga is that many people still using Amigas have PCs anyway and can play the games on their PCs. That's what I do anyway.

I'd rather buy new Amiga games which are more like the classic games of old - small, fun and innovative.

Wouldn't it be possible to learn from the mistakes of countless Amiga games and now produce decent games in each genre and sub-genre? Or is the creation of a great game something that doesn't work that way?

What I'm saying is that I've rather buy Paradroid 2001 with sprites and parallax scrolling for my Amiga, than Soldier Of Fortune or Heretic 2 - which I've already played on the PC.
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Old 06 December 2001, 09:59   #29
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That's a good point. I don't like PC games anyway because they all look like...PC games. So I don't think I'd like that kind of game on the Amiga (any Amiga). But if I did like that narrow game style, I think I would probably play them on a PC that I already have, rather than all of the muss and fuss to get a modern-day Amiga to play the same kind of game.

If all that is being done with PPC Amigas (game wise) is cloning or porting PC games, then I'm afraid I have no use for it. To say nothing of the expense. I always thought of Amiga games as having something special and better than the competition, but if the games are just running with the pack like they already are on the PC, well then I can't be bothered. The mentality these days seems to be that the only games that can be cool are 3D. (sigh)
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Old 06 December 2001, 13:15   #30
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I see your point. But you'll have to understand that nobody still uses an Amiga because of the
games. There are very few new titles released and a PC+UAE is much more suitable for playing old
titles than my expanded A1200. We're not a bunch of retro-gamers, we're just normal desktop
users.

Personally, I'm sick of that 3D stuff aswell. But that's what the majority of people wants, both
on the PC and on the Amiga. So that's what they'll get.

The custom chips were great stuff 8-10 years ago, but nowadays everybody wants to get rid of
them as soon as possible. Remember, most of us are running 8-10 year old motherboards, if my
A1200 mobo (which basically acts as a keyboard and mouse interface, the rest is handled by
addons) dies, I'll have to pay a fortune to get it repaired.

I'm not very familiar with the 2D capabilities of a modern graphics card, but when the sources
for 'Abuse' (which is basically a 2D platformer) were released and the game got ported to the
Amiga, it had insane requirements, given the fact that stuff like Turrican or Traps 'n Treasures
runs on a unexpanded A500. I'm afraid the days of "small" are definately over :-/

@Twistin':

Didn't want to talk you into buying an AmigaPPC - from my point of view, you guys were lost to
the dark side a looong time ago
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Old 06 December 2001, 13:23   #31
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Quote:
a PC+UAE is much more suitable for playing old titles than my expanded A1200
I disagree - I'd rather use my A1200 with WHDLoad games than UAE and a PC. The Amiga runs the games properly (provided I'm using WHDLoad), without scrolling or other similar emulator problems.
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Old 06 December 2001, 13:53   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
@Twistin':

Didn't want to talk you into buying an AmigaPPC - from my point of view, you guys were lost to
the dark side a looong time ago
?!?!

Well, I can respect your view. But I would rather march to the beat of a different drummer than be a sheep any day. In addition to not liking the same inane gaming that the general public does, I also listen to better music than Britney/Destiny's Child/Snoop, I prefer good films to brain-dead blockbusters by Roland Emerich, and I watch neither MTV nor Survivor shows on the tube. I would rather die than to live my life only liking what is popular.

I think being on the enlightened side is a more appropriate term than 'dark' side. I wanted to like Amiga PPC because it is, after all, an Amiga. But it seems all that power is only good for apps and PC-style games. Shame, really. Forced back to the old school (and loving it!)
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Old 06 December 2001, 18:25   #33
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@Twistin' Ghost:

Sorry mate, you misunderstood me completely. That remark was just a joke - maybe I should have
used some more smileys ?

Really, didn't mean to offend you.

Cody Jarrett

> I disagree - I'd rather use my A1200 with WHDLoad games than UAE and a PC. The Amiga runs the
> games properly (provided I'm using WHDLoad), without scrolling or other similar emulator
> problems.

Granted, WHDLoad is brilliant, you'll just have to live with a second monitor

Btw. Hyperion contacted Bert to ensure that OS4.0 will run WHDLoad
installed games (as long as the custom chips are there).
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Old 06 December 2001, 18:42   #34
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Quote:
Btw. Hyperion contacted Bert to ensure that OS4.0 will run WHDLoad
Good!
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Old 06 December 2001, 18:42   #35
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Oh no, dude. Not offended at all! hehehe...just used that as an opportunity to denounce new school. I knew where you were coming from!
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Old 07 December 2001, 20:27   #36
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OS4 on the MAC? Now that would be a treat. Fuck all that Cocoa shite and all...

BUT..... the cool apps will still not be available for Amiga)S4, they will be available for MacOS... so no bananas. I could install it as an alternate, though.
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