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Old 07 December 2005, 11:33   #21
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Yeah, it's definately the user. Of course, I don't deny that there are good joysticks and bad joysticks, but in the end it was the user who broke it. They didn't "wear out" after one month. If they did, it was because you wore them out by handling them badly.

But I don't blame anyone. Everyone have their own way of playing, and while many people use the "more power, less subtlety" method, I prefer the more delicate handling. I never felt the urge to push the joystick harder to the left than it's supposed to go.
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Old 07 December 2005, 12:57   #22
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Originally Posted by wanderer
I must have broken at least 3 Quick Shot's II within a couple of years, they looked kinda cool, but sucked as 'action' joysticks. Also, a couple of the infamous greek sticks didn't survive (Pac-man, SS Fighter or sth. etc) but that was probably due to their questionable 'quality control' at the... factory. Their were great though.
Mind you, I always treat my joysticks with respect, never bashing them like some moron who acts like he's never played a game before. Some people think they can handle joysticks the same way they handle the arcade sticks. Wrong.
Manicx, I think you should donate your joystick to an Amiga club, or even a museum before it breaks down when you least expect it.
No special moves or acrobatics, my Amiga joystics just seemed to fade away when their time came. It was sad, because I couldn't easily afford new joysticks at the time, and connecting the mouse to the joystick port trying to emulate a joystick with random, or even mystical hand/wrist motions didn't help. And the joysticks could get it from totally innocuous games, like E-motion or Powerstyx, not just Epyx-like titles...
Their time had come.
Well, I am good with my soldering iron and I have extended the life of most of my joysticks. Me and a friend have plans to create a website about joysticks and joypads. We both have a unique collection of them. I still have a QSII+ that has not been opened and taken out of the box and a few others.
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Old 07 December 2005, 14:38   #23
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Zipsticks are virtually indestructabe! So many times i've smashed one against the wall in a fit or rage and they survive!
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Old 07 December 2005, 17:33   #24
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Originally Posted by Mick_AKA
Zipsticks are virtually indestructabe! So many times i've smashed one against the wall in a fit or rage and they survive!
what?? i've never chucked a joystick around, (until recently when i started throwing my PS2 pad into the bean-bag!) but none of our Zipsticks still work (i had two older brothers to share with) i also had a couple of Quickjoy Jetfighter's (the brown one) that were great, but got mullered by me and my mates on speedball 2. We managed to fix some up by making a mate's broken one a "spare parts" joystick. (and still have 2 that work)

i dont blame anyone who's broken a joystick. it's only plastic and metal FFS, it wont last forever, and it doesnt really matter at all. Some last 6 months some 6 years. Anyway, if you're really enjoying a game , most people arent gonna think about how firmly you're using it, but just get on with trying to beat your opponent! I'd be more worried about the damage i would do to them when i get beat, than i would be about the damage to the joystick. (particularly if i decide to try and cleave someone's skull with it after beating me at a best-of-5 on speedball2!)
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Old 07 December 2005, 23:35   #25
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well i'll have to admit that am one of those people that take care of their computers , so i return games back in their cases/covers or boxes so they wont get damaged/scratched.. i also like to clean my amiga with a cloth .. like once a month... and if a game didnt work anymore i would just copy it from a friend or a shop then have it as backup in case i wanted to play the same game in the future...
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Old 08 December 2005, 02:03   #26
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Originally Posted by StarEye
I played all the competative you can imagine. I also played a LOT of Summer Games and Winter Games, and the worst supposedly joystick-breaking game you can imagine, Decathlon, where just about every competition required you to "wiggle" the joystick.

I've also been playing games for nearly 20 years, and I never broke a joystick unintentionally. Does that make me a "virgin" in your eyes? Heh, I bet you'd lose to a lot of "virgins" if you played against them.
Its okay i understand you have a 'light' touch, infact i am pleased that 20 years of gamming has proven that the 'light' touch can save joy/game devices but what i ment by gaming virgin was in no way to dis-embue your gamming prowess.

So please dont take it the wrong way 'princess' *ahem* i mean StarEye.

insofar as myself losing to such virgins if you imply by that button bashers/mashers that happens to anyone (last time i play mortal kombat against my mum!!! right showed me up on christmas day.. i drew a line after the 4th rematch!!).

sheesh.. okay i fear i may have given the impression that i care less or not for the equipment that i have, this could not be further from the truth. however seriously a joystick takes a hell of a lot abuse, between the 48k the C64 the ST520 and Amiga, all our friends our dad, his friends my sister her friends and then there me and my brother..... serously if you said that an average joystick would last 12 months then by reference on the number of people whom used it then seriously a month is a bonus!!!

However the thread tends to suggest that quite simply out of 18 postees other than SWOS and StarEye seem to have broken of atleast had to replace one that was. 2 outa 18, that means that you guys got all the good ones, and all the poorly constructed joysticks were shipped to where i lived!!!!!!!!!!

The theroy can be proven by sending me your joysticks for testing

I believe its a law of averages and Ham-Hands but if you REALLY get into a game not mentioning any names like SWOS and my and my brother would swap and trade serious punches and bloodly noses so a game HAD to be won as anything less would result in total humiliation!!!!!!!!!

*i am not going to mention SkidMarks AGA... damn 16 hours.... it was like lemans.... WICH IS ANOTHER GAME!!!!!*
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Old 09 December 2005, 12:23   #27
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Originally Posted by StarEye
The "waggle" games isn't to blame, I believe a good amount of people handle the joysticks with less-than-delicate force. Haven't you seen how many games almost rip their controller apart when they try to turn the car left/right in racing games for instance? Me, I just don't get it. It's a mechanical item, it should be handled with care, don't use full force to turn left or right, up or down. Don't slam the firebutton as if you're trying to beat it up. Press the buttons normally, like you'd push a on/off switch on the pc. You don't hit a button, you press it (when it says "hit the firebutton to exit" it's just a figure of speech, you're not supposed to hit it )

And when you pull the joystick in either direction... it doesn't go any further than what it's built for. You're not supposed to push or pull it beyond the limit.
Heh, in an idealist's world.

After you play for a long time, your hand gets tired and you can't get your hand to hold the stick in the direction you want unless you use more and more force.

Same with firebuttons.

Play some lotus II first with fire as accel, then forward as accel.. You'll find it more and more difficult to hold the joystick forward or the firebutton down the longer you play.. In the end you try and release the tension just a bit, but then the switch actually opens, because you don't have the fine control any more.. You notice that if you relax your hand even a tiny bit, it won't have enough strength to keep the switch closed.

I've had this happen many times in racing games.. On a tedious straight in Lotus II (there are some, yes), I drift back to reality and realise I'm putting a lot of strain on the stick.. Then I loosen up just a little, but notice that the firebutton pops up as I do this and I can't control my thumb.

The faster you have to move, the more strength your muscles generate, thus if the game requires split-second timing, you will most likely bang the stick from side to side.

If you manage to do quick movements and continuous movements (hours upon hours) while self-suggesting yourself to not use excessive force ALSO while being able to keep the movements at a reflex level, then you are a very rare type of person and are not allowed to wonder about this any more. :-) (you may however congratulate yourself of generating such a trait that saves joysticks from wear and tear)

I try to be gentle with my sticks, but the more I get immersed in the game, the heavier my actions are on the joystick.. Actually, come to think of it.. I have not broken a single stick myself.. All my broken sticks so far have been broken by others. All the ones I ever bought back in the day are still working or have been sold with some hardware at one point. :-)

This is just like typing on the keyboard. If I just hammer away at my normal 100wpm rate, it's quite noisy because I don't think about what my fingers are doing. If I want to type quietly, it's a mental effort and it slows my finger actions down because I have to think about the motion my fingers are doing.

Last edited by Jope; 09 December 2005 at 12:32.
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Old 09 December 2005, 12:52   #28
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This thread throws up some interesting questions

Is it truly a psychological thing or is it abuse of the joysticks hardware that causes things to break ?

Certainly Jopes physiological case for why increased effort is used over prolonged periods does infact create a logical arguement for why some sticks will eventually physically break.

Equally it could be argued that the more make/break contacts a microswitch performs the more likely it will break down due to heating oxidation effect of on/off operation.
This leading to a poor contact and hence incite the user to apply more presure to overcome the fault.

It is a fallacy to claim a joystick would never wear out if in constant use, as both the repetious mechanical as well as switch operations will cause wear & tear.

It could be argued from those whose sticks have never worn out that they place themselves in a "ZONE" where the stick/pad is looked on as a delicate control instrument as opposed to being a PHYSICAL part of the game.
This would be the only case I can envision where increased stress's of gameplay would NOT be translated into increased force being applied to the stick.

Having observed how my own children through to adult changed the way they handled joysticks & pads I can only sumise, that depending on the game & their own maturity at the time, their ability to limit button presses & joystick movement to only those NEEDED for the game was allways a learning curve.

The more complex the movement to perform combinations in fighting games on sticks or alternately with playstation,nintendo,x-box controllers etc the more likely certain button combo's would eventually break the controler.....particulary if they were in two player mode.

So all I can say is that both SWOS & stareye play games in a state of ZEN harmony, I do NOT dismiss it as impossible because ALL of us at some time have managed to play certain game's in that state......just not ALL games.

Perhaps these two joystick YODA'S will pass on the secret of eternal harmony ?
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Old 10 December 2005, 04:23   #29
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i've broken loads.

The main 2 i used:

The bug had wiring issues
Python 1m - constant microswitch replacements (mainly playing SWOS)

Also I feel that the main reason a joystick is damaged through use isn't because a player is purposely beinh HARD, but more their reactions in game!

sometimes a game makes you react quickly (moving out of the way of a late seen bullet for example) and the speed itself would cuase the player to "seem" heavy handed.. no?

So instead of you lot thiking of a user being heavy handed, I guarantee they are not being (intentionally) they are simply reacting too quickly!
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Old 10 December 2005, 08:47   #30
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Actually, I've witnessed people playing heavy-handed, so I'll stick to the explanation. Same people that complain about broken joysticks/cellphones/ipods/Gameboys/PSPs/etc.

Some people just don't know how to handle delicate machinery.

Of course, there's the type you describe too. I just never had a reaction like that.
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Old 14 December 2005, 06:22   #31
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I can only remember a few of mine actually breaking...
the Navigator - trigger snapped across the middle. A couple of my friends had the same happen, so I'd say it's a design fault. Superglue kept it going a while longer
A couple of cheap ones had dodgy stick-top buttons - one had a plastic rod going through the stick to the switch in the base, the rod broke & the button popped out... the other had plastic clippy things holding it inside the top, these broke & it sprang out...

Had some just stop working...
the Commodore-branded ones with the rubber button thingys inside (as seen on some modern joypads) - the rubber wore out or something & it just stopped responding.
some of the cheap ones with "leaf" springs, again the leafs just got too worn to respond properly. And some had cable failures.

Also had an Amiga "brick" mouse's left button wear out... got less & less responsive then just stopped. I blame Lemmings for this one (among other games)
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Old 14 December 2005, 08:34   #32
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To be fair, I've never bought a "cheap" stick, I'm keeping to the quality ones. Maybe that's why they last too. I've learned that in all things we use and buy, it's usually better to think quality. Of course, depends on how you intend to use it or how well you know yourself - I would never buy expensive controllers if I thought I was gonna break it after a few months. If I had a history of breaking things, I'd keep away from all things expensive.
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Old 13 June 2006, 19:39   #33
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Chambers of Shaolin put my Competition Pro on the brink, or even, brought it on knife's edge.

You could just ignore the karate part, but you would not have been able to win against the opponent in the combat game later, as the strength values DID get calculated that way!
One time I just waggled "normally", but then I had a great idea:

I had to replace a microswitch and did *NOT* close the joystick again!
I played all of the chambers with the plastic base LOOSE on the joystick, then, when my "beloved" stage came ... heh ... I only played with the "intestines" of the joystick and --- WON!

Suddenly I won all the karate stages and I did NOT destroy my competition pro, as waggling with the shorter inner stick could be made more precise while it was very difficult to waggle *evenly* with the actual "stick": you could easily have waggled TOO FAR in right or left direction and possibly break something internally.

Worst idea ever of game authors.

Having observed how my own children through to adult changed the way they handled joysticks & pads I can only sumise, that depending on the game & their own maturity at the time, their ability to limit button presses & joystick movement to only those NEEDED for the game was allways a learning curve.
woody ...

I KNOW. And some game authors DID something against that.
Ever heard of laser temperature?
This idea had even TWO effects: you could prevent the user from using autofire in the game, making everything much too easy; on the other hand, you could prevent him from firing 8 shots in a short sequence to have a better chance to hit an opponent. The laser would just overheat and fire become unresponsive, usually leading to sudden death.

Ah and what about AGONY? I think when I used (virtual) auto-fire (hammering the fire button), I could never pick up any extras; when I shot in shorter or longer intervals, extras popped up from time to time. Coincidence?

I've had this happen many times in racing games.. On a tedious straight in Lotus II (there are some, yes), I drift back to reality and realise I'm putting a lot of strain on the stick.. Then I loosen up just a little, but notice that the firebutton pops up as I do this and I can't control my thumb.
Heh Jope, I remember that too. BUT ... some games do not like this AT ALL. Traps and Treasures from level 2 on was very unforgiving in this, I even had to use ANOTHER joystick for playing it! In T & T, you have to pick up small boxes from the sea bed, and mostly several miles from the place where you need to put them. You do NOT want to know if you loosen the strength on your thumb, losing the box and it drops back into sea bed! Frustrating? That's just the first name.

Last edited by andreas; 13 June 2006 at 19:53.
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Old 15 June 2006, 02:44   #34
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My favourite Joystick was and is the Quickshot II.
I killed a lot of them because the electric contacts got weak and so you had to use your physical strength to get the contact.
Me and my friends had plenty of broken cases back in the late 80ies.
The one game I remember was 'Skychase' in 2Player-mode. That was a real killer for these Joysticks.
Nowadays I use the Competition Pro for normal gaming because it is robust and I'm not that hard player today as I was 20 years ago.

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Old 15 June 2006, 07:30   #35
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I use Pythons. Funny thing is that I have never broken any of them but my brother and father had many times. I don't know how they did this. Since four years my brother does not play on Amiga and since then none of my joysticks were broken and they work perfect.

I guess some people have this special ability to break them
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Old 15 June 2006, 15:16   #36
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The only joystick I used to break were the quickshot 2 joysticks. The competition pro joysticks were always too expensive. What I used to do is take the quickshot 2 back to the shop and get a new one, did this loads of times.
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