Website

[cebulba]

Hey ho? Is there a website for all your rips?

and can one put this nice tool in the zone for me? I want to give it a try...

[gifgit]

No website as yet but I put gfxrip in the zone for you.Just use uncompressed winuae savestates for ripping.

[cebulba]

Thanks.
Got it.

Now I need to have the time to try it

Concerning the website...the easiest way is to setup a gallery - where anybody can upload their rips - and others can download them.

No need for a database...

[gifgit]

I agree with the idea of a gallery website.We just need someone to get it up and running.

[cebulba]

I can make a quick design and setup the page. In addition I can host it.

However, I don't want to offend those other guys who already wanted to build one...

what does the "Team" say ?

[gifgit]

We have wanted a website for months,but no-one has been able to find the time to do it.IMHO.................................................................... DO IT PLEASE

[cebulba]

I'll have a site running by the end of next week.

What is needed?

A Gallery.
A FAQ section (in special for the use with the GFX Ripper).
A tutorial.

Anything else?

[gifgit]

How about a request section where people can request a specific game to be ripped?

[woody57]

I am UNDER the impresion that BippyM is actually making a site at present and has some buttons/logo designs for it
As he already has aquired space from me to host it

I guess the wait is getting to people

[bippym]

I simply don't have the time Woody

Feel free to come up with another site guys

[cebulba]

Originally Posted by bippym

I simply don't have the time Woody

Feel free to come up with another site guys

perhaps you can get me those gifs and buttons and graphics - so I can use them in addition?

[bippym]

I haven't finished them.

I was gonna create the gfx/buttons for the AHA and sprites sites but never really got much done!

I am really tied down with work/uni/family atm.. (As some will have noticed with my lack of attendance here!)

[cebulba]

...but still hidden ;-)

For a GFX Request the only opportunity which comes to my mind - and easiest - is to have an own forum, which makes - to some content - this forum obsolete

More content to be added?

[woody57]

By creating member log in pages to add content gives you the opertunity to have "Specific" Games still to be ripped pages for all signed in members to read .

You can still limit actual editing for presentation for the sites admin by using the hidden members gallery system similar to coppermine galleries.

If you create a seperate forum away from here you miss the chance of many contributors who are active here deciding NOT to follow you, while at the same time SNUBBING the forum that gave birth to the project in the first place

However Cebulba since I detect a note of "tounge firmly in cheek " about your suguestion :P

And actually believe you are teasing just to see who actually is paying attension

[cebulba]

...the website will feature a "Work Board" where members are able to state their current "ripping project" and in addition a "what's done" and "to do" list.

Yes, woody you are right with the forum

I will have a link to EAB and with a special FAQ section, new members/new requesters will make their way to EAB.

Cu you on "TASRP"

Olli K.

[cebulba]

Question came up if making Sprites and Rips available to the public could be considered as a violence of copy-protection or in other words: Are there ANY laws which prohibit ripping GFX and in addition making them available for public/download??!??

Before getting the URL into public I need to get an answer to this question!

Or does this only apply if they are being used in Remakes -> and therefore the Remaker Programmer is responsible for using these sprites...

Any lawyer's here?

regards,
Olli K.

P.S.: Website 90% done. Needs some fixes and content(GFX-Rips) to add.

[bippym]

Of course it's illegal, but generally publishers/developers etc don't bother with such old games!

[Hungry Horace]

just slap on a disclaimer that says
1) you will remove anything upon request of copyright owners,
2) that you dont own any of the sprites or game's copyrights (or amiga (C) for that matter)
3) that no profit or personal gain is being made from the site.

That should cover your back enough for the unlikely event of any ex-amiga graphic artist calling into question the site legality.

[bippym]

Good idea Horace

Personally I don't see there being too much outrage. If an artist has a problem then I'm sure they'll say, but tbh if I was an artist I'd be honoured to see my abandoned work being used constructively.

[gifgit]

Bippym is right.If you look on the net there are loads of sprite sheets for all the console systems so I can`t see this one being a problem as most amiga games are abandonware.Also Horace got it right with his disclaimer idea cos none of us rippers are making any money out of supplying sprites and maps to this forum,we just make them for possible retro remakes or demos.If someone does complain then they will definitly be in a minority and they would have to prove that someone was making a profit from their work.
Finally,as Bippym said if he were an artist he would be honoured to see his work used constructively,I would feel exactly the same.

[woody57]

Do NOT forget the line stating that downloads from this site are NOT intended for COMMERCIAL projects & NO liability is accepted for claims or damage incured by
their downloading or useage.

Since your ALL working for free why have BOGUS claims costing you money by otherwise IMPLIED responsibility ?

[Dizzy]

well mayby this site could be some inspiration

[Zetr0]

*in a yoda type voice...*

"indeed... to woody57 & Hungry Horace you must listern!!...",

forgive me those whom already know this

English law depicts the following on Copyright: (Copyrights and patents act 1988)

Owner of Copyright is refered to as the Author (or bodies) of referenced recorded works. Thus if a company used a program that randomized numbers for a lottery draw, it is in effect by law the author of that sequence, this still stands true even if they did not own the copyright of the generating program but obviously was using it under license.

Copyright duration: This actually varies upon type as:

1. A Program & documentation lasts for 70 years after the authors death.

2. If computer generated only 50 years after Authors death.

Permitted Acts Under English Law after 1992

1. making backups to ensure a second copy is available in the event of orginal copy becomming damaged, lost or corrupt.

2. adapting a program in order to correct an error or bug

3. Decompilation when this is done purely to facilitate an interface to a program and there is no otherway of finding out.

point 3 needs a litte extra to understand.
3.
i.e if some one was developing a word processor package is entitled to decompile a competing package for the sole purpose of finding out the format in which documents were saved. Obviously if the competing company had published its formats then there would be no reason for this.

-------------------------------------------------------

Infringement:

okay so where does the website sit on infringment, i have spoken to quite a few lectures of law in the copyright area and here are the three boiled down portents.

1.
If the item belongs to a company that has been liquidated and their copyrights have not been transfered they become part of the public domain.

2.
If the item belongs to a company that has been liquidated and their copyrights can be transfered to other body(ies) and thus are not part of the public domain.

3.
if the item belongs to an individual then the referal of such work remains thiers for the permitted time UNLESS such work has in part or whole featured in any public domain

---------------------------------

Technical Aspects

so to extrapolate if i ripped graphix from a psygnosis game, i could contact sony entertainment to find out if the rights to all works by psygnosis works were transfered to sony entertainment or not.. the later bequiths them to the public domain.

If the item belongs in the public domain then there is no issue.

However, if i wanted to show graphix for captive to use in another project i would have to contact Anthony Crowler as it has never been released as public domain (in whole or part), I am however allowed to both copy (backup) and leagaly decompile his work to find the save and loading formats and any other item i wish that facilitates futher function or corrects errors.

if the graphics / scenes have been published in any publication this becomes a VERY grey area for litigation as once published *depending on journal* deems if such belongs in part to the public domain. There are still precidents being set in the area and the ground proves volitile.

from my interpretation upon 16 pages provided HMSO government, woody57 hit the nail on the head (i think he spends to much time in his woodshed reading magazines *and hitting nails on the head* for a grown man )

The best way would be to assume all works are / have existing copyrights and the way to show such works would be to obviously have a disclaimer stating that all works belong to their respective copyrights and is provided here only as information on such works. you can go into a major one about not being used for any commercial projects but there really is no need to as copyrights already provide that coverage.

-------------------------------------

Forward

Another way to look upon this aspect is in reguard to Permitted Acts Under English Law after 1992 item 3. whereby decompilation to facilitate futher function of software etc. although this is a little tenuious would provide manipulations and developments for arguments sake, memory arrangement routines etc.

definate food for thought.

wow now thats a big postie hope it helps.

[Zetr0]

Heys guys,

If it helps i have something that might be of use, but atleast of some discussion.

I knocked this up in Webstyle4 for ya, its quick and easy to mod stuff for it... especially if ya have dreamweaver too

its just an idea to get the discourse flowing

[cebulba]

Helle ZetrO and thanks for the complete answer to my question.

However, since the website is hosted by a .de Domain - I'm unsure if these laws are the same over here in Germany. I guess they are similar but may in some detail different.

Thanks for the layouts in addition. Unfortunately as stated before the website (and the layout) is already done by me - and looks similar like the one you posted

I have decided to make a big disclaimer on the website which everybody has to agree on to the get full access to the website.

Furthermore it might be better just to get GFX from back2roots.org games (they already asked for making them available for public download, so why should the company have problems with a public download on the sprites? ).

I have seen Flash Remakes of RICK DANGEROUS and IK+ (very good ones btw) - does anybody know if the authors had ask for using the gameplay and sprites in front?

[bippym]

I don't see the point of doing this site if you're not gonna host ALL the sprites!!

If you are worried then somebody else I'm sure will risk hosting it.. lets be honest the worst that is likely to happen is you are asked to remove sprites etc..

[Hungry Horace]

i have to agree with Bippy on this one.
Whilst it does show a great deal of thought and consideration on the part of you all, (including giving me some further insights into English copyright law) i do think maybe everyone is worrying about this a little too much, and it would be a shame to limit the sprites availible without a direct request for their removal.

For example, there's no Sensible Software games on back2roots (apart from the odd demo) yet www.sensiblesoccer.de have had the game availible for download for ages, and with the launch of a new sensi soccer next year, they are even in contact with the makers (and copyright holders) at Codemasters (including Jon Hare ) who seem to have no problems with the game or parts of the game being distributed amongst the SensiSoccer community online. (usually for unofficial updates and stuff)

Just my thoughts.

[woody57]

Since my domain is hosted from the USA & governed under the State laws of the hosting State the server is based in, I am more than happy to give Cebulba FULL access & hosting space /monthly transfer allowance for the site on ONE CONDITION

IT contains ALL the project sprites & he adds whatever disclaimer makes him personally comfortable, as for the overall site content thats ON MY SHOULDERS to answer questions if & when they arise.

Now thanks to Zetro and his updated 1988 version of copywrite terms of law { As a PRS member I have the later 95,99,2001 & 2005 updates of it too ! } The oNLY pertinent question for webhosting is whether it is advertised as a NON COPYWRITE FREE RESOURCE this would allow its use for comercial development as the contents would be classed as Donnated free of restriction

This is clearly not the case and with the aforementioned disclaimers that identify this misuse of the resource opens the USER to prosecution NOT the host source.

As a simple example you can add the McDonnalds logo to your personal letters to friends as a "SPOOF" joke ,but you have NO RIGHT to claim you have permission to use it in a commercial game or advertising campaign that makes money

For this reason the Super BoB Dylan SPOOF of Super Mario got by as PD release because it did not use any sprites from the original game even though the game play was practicly identical

But any attempts to use ripped sprites comercially have allways been blocked when spotted.

Hence the term SPOOF = Comic rendition of an original work .. for example the majority of work by Wierd Al Yankovitch ....and the more OBVIOUS the thing is a poor & humourous copy, the less likely it is prosecutable under US law.

I know it sort of opens the floodgates but without it comedy programme writting teams would be in Court every week.


So back on thread Cebulba deadwoodinc.net is happy to host the sprite project in ALL its entire glory

[Joe Maroni]

good luck with the site...

i think you have all foundations to build the site...

and many many thanks goes to woody57...

[cebulba]

Website is up!

Now please post a description or anything else (welcome message)...

I'm not a native english speaker - so it's up to one of you guys

Also, please upload all sprites to my webserver. I will add them to the downloads and gallery....however this is also available for registered users

I still need to make some fixes but I guess the current status helps a lot in handling all rips.

and here's the URL:
http://www.amigavision.de

Cu,
Olli Knagge

[Joe Maroni]

you´ll get the first stuff soon..

[Adeptus]

Originally Posted by woody57

Hence the term SPOOF = Comic rendition of an original work .. for example the majority of work by Wierd Al Yankovitch ....and the more OBVIOUS the thing is a poor & humourous copy, the less likely it is prosecutable under US law.

But he still has to pay royalties to the song's authors for use/performance of the music... hence why no more than half of any album is "direct" parodies.
(he also has a lot of "in-the-style-of" type parodies, eg Germs sounds like a NIN song but not a specific one...)

[woody57]

Absolutly Adeptus

The principles used however are similar & consequently my point of why " BAD copies in the style of" are harder to prosecute than direct VERY close copies

Well Cebulba I joined the site & added a shout comment ...:P

Lets hope the real work of other contributors can be added so future Amiga game "sprite requests " have a REAL home to visit

[Chain]

.. still needs some tweakin

[gifgit]

The website is looking really good
Glad to see those Lemming intro sprites were useful for something.

[cebulba]

Originally Posted by Chain

.. still needs some tweakin

that's happening when you use MOZILLA

I was never a fan of Bill Gates - but when it comes to amigavision - the IE works perfectly

[Duke]

Maybe you could start by fixing those errors.

[gifgit]

Can someone who is fluent in both English and German please help translate this site and perhaps work with cebulba to make this site everything that it should be

[cebulba]

I have changed the websites' language to english.

In the future it's possible to have multilingual options. We just need translations

Any volunteers for a "welcome to amigavision" text? I will work on the site at least one day a week. Unfortunately right now I'm heavy involved in finishing my degree in *fasten seatbelts* "enviromental sciences with focus on enviromental monitoring, remote sensing and geomatics". Call me Master Sc. in a few weeks

[gifgit]

Website is cool, it has a lot more sense to it now it is in english.
P.S how long before our uploads get onto the sprite gallery?