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Old 13 November 2005, 17:39   #61
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh
WinUAE needs the same recording mechanism as ZSnes and other emulators where the recordings are not video but compressed I/O information (with timing). The files are only a few hundred kilobytes and the game emulates live in front of you.
This will happen someday..

But there are some problems, playing back will require exact same disk image and settings or timing will fail. Even different highscores in disk may cause problems. (different track, different seeking time etc..)
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Old 13 November 2005, 18:54   #62
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Yep, so if someone is sending recordedamigagames one of those tiny new recordings, they should provide the game they used too.

But till then... RECORD to AVI.. yeye :P

What the users at http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/ do is to upload their recordings (nsv or something.. approx 100-300kb) and the owner of the page makes them into AVI... so in any case, you will be able to download AVI files, not the source recordings.... so the best thing being able to record like that is the upload time.. will only take like a few mins...
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Old 14 November 2005, 16:08   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
This will happen someday..

But there are some problems, playing back will require exact same disk image and settings or timing will fail. Even different highscores in disk may cause problems. (different track, different seeking time etc..)
Would it be possible if the adf image along with WinUAE settings and a note for which WinUAE version the recording was, was added to the package?

I don't know how WinVICE works but the WinVICE history files I've got have been shared with the d64 image used for the recording.

Bandwidth-(and disk space-)wise it would be a much better solution.
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Old 14 November 2005, 17:50   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironclaw
about the files being big and "All of these MPEG/AVI/WMV files... pointless waste of bandwidth.".. so what?
I'd DO want to watch them, but just not if they are LARGE movies.

Quote:
it's not your bandwidth
damn sure is if I want to watch 'em

Quote:
there are countless of sites out there with speedruns for snes, nes, xbox, pc, psx etc with files over 1gig....
Snes, NES, Megadrive, C64, Spectrum, I've all seen emulators which record compressed I/O instead of movies. Their files are 10's of Megabytes at most.

Quote:
it's a cool thing to be able to download recorded games.
Sure is, specially if you aint too good at them, but were always curious what came next. Like me

Quote:
This site has game recordings that takes over 2gig, I downloaded Contra for Ps2, it took 1.3gig.. wow, awesome game and that guy rules, not a second wasted.
Yeah, but there is no realtime PS2 emulator so that is a totally different ballgame.

Quote:
Too bad you don't have the passion for recorded games.
I do, I just have better things to use my bandwidth on, especially when the technology is available so I do not to have to.

I'm not having a go at anyone, I am not saying that I am going to pick up VC++ .NET and implement it for WinUAE, I am just hinting, quietly and seeing if someone listens
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Old 19 November 2005, 05:36   #65
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The current recording capabilities of WinUAE are in early development stage and very buggy atm (looses settings, limited codec selection, audio offset). If you ask me better take Camtasia with TSCC or CRAM Codec on 320x200 window at 640x480 desktop resolution and pointresize*2 afterwards with avisynth/VirtualDub to TSCC. Downside is you will never have exact vsync with desktop/window capturing but it should be ok at corresponding refresh rates (50*X PAL, 60*X NTSC).

Try to drop that mpeg4 codecs. They rely on YV12 colorspace and are unsuitable for pixelexact RGB reproduction. Best codec so far seems TSCC that is as well in ffmpeg library (and thus in ffdshow [decoding only i think] that is available for many os'es) and on Techsmith's homepage for free. Capable of encoding/decoding.

CRAM/MSVC mentioned above isn't bad for RGB as well but ends up in highly uncompressed files (up to 50:1 compression ratio with WinRAR so you will waste a lot of space if you don't store the videos in compressed archives) and if i'm not wrong only captures 8bit color depth that could lead to color distortions.

Last videos i made some weeks ago look like this (cram/msvc - not yet compressed with TSCC):
http://.de/files/6856894/a...ngame.rar.html
(watch the balls - they have slight vsync issues i mentioned above)

Another solution to capture could be 'Fraps' but i had several conversations with the devs about limited AGP bandwidth and possible interlaced capturing when it comes to 50fps. In their opinion its not possible to capture 640x480x50 via AGP bus and i don't have a PCIe board so i cannot test it...

Last edited by NoX1911; 19 November 2005 at 05:42.
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Old 19 November 2005, 12:01   #66
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I don't ought to try a new codec or whatever, using WinUAE and Divx or Xvid is good for me, no sync problems whatsoever if you have the "Disable framerate limit while recording" on. So for me Winuae and Xvid are perfect, for recording. But then when we cut and add text to the final product, we make them in the H246 codec... it's all good and works.... so wont change.

I have Fraps and it works well with PC games, and some Amiga games.. but tried it on Slamtilt and it wasnt just possible to record using Fraps... like many other amiga games. When starting recording Slamtilt with Fraps, the sound and video went crazy, got messed up and everything in slowmotion, even if I set Fraps to only 20fps and Half-size. So...... no Fraps or anything for me, just Winuae with Xvid.

Thanks for the suggestion though, will add to our site when I get the time to it and say that people, if they have it, can record amiga games with Fraps. One guy did, but he could only get the game running smooth without glitches if he used Half-size... so the test movie he sent us was only in like 160x140 or something... that's too low. If one records in Fraps, it should be atleast in 320x240.

Last edited by Ironclaw; 19 November 2005 at 12:17.
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Old 19 November 2005, 12:16   #67
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Ok, downloaded your file and watched the movies. yeah, IK+ has good quality but no wonder, it has no scrolling, just a still back. And it's 2 min on 6mb, so 3mb/min.. which is alot... also, it's only in 25fps.. our movies has 50fps, motion, scrolling, some just 1-2mb/min and looks just as good....

Like my darkseed, 640x400, 50fps, 55mb, 48 mins long... that's like less that 1mb/min and it looks good....


So our system here works great, so no need to change it... you also mentioned you get slight vsync issues with the balls, well, use Winuae, Divx or Xvid and have the box check that I told about in the above post and you will have NO sync delay whatsoever.

I only use Xvid cause it has best quality but are a bit slow when recording for some people, not me though..... those who want good speed while recording should use Divx but that codec doesnt have the same quality.
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Old 20 November 2005, 00:30   #68
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The winrar compressed CRAM IK+ video (i already said before its an intermediate codec that has very weak compression) without sound is 636kb running 124secs resulting in 5.1kb/s. Darkseed under same conditions comes to 11.4kb/s.
IK+ has twice the data amount (yuv 4:4:4 against 4:2:0) at half file size resulting in an efficiency gain at a multiple of 4.
But i have to agree that it mostly depends on delta information when it comes to final file size. I tested Turrican2 with WinUAE recording (Camtasia/vsync is horrible at 50fps) that brings 10MB for 30secs on 50 frames/s in near lossless quality with TSCC. That's way too much for final file size and in this case H264 may be indeed better.

At least i recommend TSCC as capture codec with 'fastest compression' in winuae. It will provide better sourcequality with less cpu usage, improves final encoding quality significantly and delivers faster responsiveness when it comes to video editing.

Using H264 or TSCC (with best compression) as final codec depends on delta information in the video. If possible always use TSCC for best quality. Some games only have 25fps or less with overall low motion like Darkseed that could be suitable for this codec.

If i find some time i will set up a comparison between these codecs with RocketRanger on 25fps.
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Old 20 November 2005, 00:42   #69
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I was thinking of using 25 fps for darkseed but didnt because later in the movie when he gets a invicibility ring, he flashes (blinks).... and at 50fps, that is flawless... white frame, normal frame, white frame, normal frame etc.. but if I would use 25fps.. it would not be a smooth blinking if you know what i mean... would result in like white frame, white frame, normal frame, white frame, normal frame......

also in rodland when you start and when you get hit.. you blink fast... 50fps dependend.... most amiga games have that.. somewhere.. so... 50fps for all games... .. but most of the games could be in 25fps without any special notification in smoothness... but still. 640x480, 50fps with the h264 codec is very good... great file size... of course, Camtasia have flawless quality, pixelperfect, no pixel loss.... but.. in most cases, huge file sizes..
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Old 20 November 2005, 02:08   #70
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Depends on the codec you use with camtasia but the sync issue is very annoying. I'll take WinUAE directly i think...

The Darkseed video is interlaced. Notice the horizontal lines at moving objects. You can take deinterlace filter for VDub to correct this. It will be even better to compress afterwards. Just in case you should encounter highres/interlaced games (y-resolution 400,512) the next time... not sure though if the amiga was even capable to push that much pixel at a time (640x512x50)...
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Old 20 November 2005, 02:23   #71
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Yep, I know the game is interlaced and therefore not playable in 320x240 cause the screen would flicker like hell, but in 640x480 there are no flickering. The lines in the movements (sometimes, not always when moving) could be fixed with certain settings. the reason why they appear is because I use overdone CPU speed which forces him to walk a bit faster thus adding more frames and it's those new frames that are between his standard animation frames. But I wanted him to move slightly faster so I recorded it this way... if I wanted to, I could have recorded it without any horizontal lines (but he would have walked slower).

Winuae has no sync problems. It's all perfect for me. People just need to know how to set it up right for various situations and games.
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Old 20 November 2005, 02:35   #72
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I think Ironclaws point is fairly simple here , there is a limit to what "online space" this project can aford to host , once you increase file size beyond a certain factor it does two basic things

1] Limits the number of full game run throughs the site can host

2] Puts off visitors who only have a slow conection via the net

So far it's an undeniable fact that the site is trying to give the best of both worlds by supplying run-through's in different formats for low end & average users.

Pixel perfect cinema quality may be the ideal BUT in order to get contributions from GAME HEADS a basic contribution MINIMUM standard HAD TO BE DRAWN......

NOWHERE does Ironclaw say that they CANNOT accept contributions at a higher resolution , just that for the purposes of display from the site they WILL be recoded for the above mentioned reasons.

I can tell from the points you bring up NoX1911 that you view the whole subject with a proffesional eye to detail & accuracey...Sadly Large amounts of open transfer bandwidth are not free.

So if this project is going to continue to increase it's number of available downloads limits have to be set early to prevent the need of having to re-organise the site or worse, remove games in order to provide NEW files.
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Old 20 November 2005, 02:38   #73
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We use Torrents which really help and this place http://.de/files/7872027/A...vel_1.avi.html
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Old 20 November 2005, 02:41   #74
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yes Ironclaw I REMEMBER suguesting them earlier in this thread as well

But direct downloads are up till recently what most visitors first look at hence my above points
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Old 20 November 2005, 13:31   #75
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Quote:
But direct downloads are up till recently what most visitors first look at hence my above points
Yep, true.
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Old 20 November 2005, 18:43   #76
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I may have to time myself at Captive first level i can storm that....

*hehe* i hope BippyM reads this and is *interested* in a lil competition.
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Old 20 November 2005, 18:51   #77
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Nice, hope you'll have the time to go through the whole game at some point. I never got around to playing the game much but I still enjoyed it
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Old 21 November 2005, 01:14   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
I may have to time myself at Captive first level i can storm that....

*hehe* i hope BippyM reads this and is *interested* in a lil competition.
This could be interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder
Nice, hope you'll have the time to go through the whole game at some point. I never got around to playing the game much but I still enjoyed it
I very, very, very much doubt that would ever happen
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Old 23 November 2005, 06:43   #79
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Ironclaw, if you're interested in a Rocket Ranger video i can give you a link. The only thing i ask for is that you do not reencode it. The video is already branded with your url. There are many stills and low motion scenes that are optimized for screen capture codecs so you wouldn't get any improvements with h264 anyway.
Its not a speedrun (its a cinemaware game ) just sth. that more or less demonstrates the game up to the end with some parts left out or optimized for viewing.

38:01Min.
50MB (7zip)
640x400 25fps
TSCC lossless (ratio 1:960) (incl. in ffdshow)
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Old 23 November 2005, 19:56   #80
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Sorry, but we have a strict rule to have all our movies in h264, except the very first one we added (wmv). All movies should be uploaded to us and if they meet the requirements, like no missing game time in the beginning (that's why everyone should start recording a few secs before the stage starts, and stop recording a few secs after the level or game ends, we cut, brand etc). Also, it must be either a Full recording (complete game from the beginning till the end) or a Partial recording (just ONE stage, not two or more). Havn't seen your movie so don't know.

If you want it on our site, it must meet the requirements and be converted by us to h264 and branded with the propper text. If we used different codecs, people might get viewing problems cuz we might change the codec on our page to just a plain h264 codec instead of the codec pack which we use right now. So pm me the link or post it here if you agree to let us recode/brand it. If not, don't you have the source?, if so, upload it instead.

And just so you know, if it's not a speedrun quality movie, that's fine by me, but if 2 people upload a faster version of the same game, yours will be removed. We will only keep the 2 top fastest movies

The movies are displayed like this:

Game X -30 mins by dude1 <---- record holder

now, if someone beats him.. it will look like this

Game X -25 mins by dude2 <--- record holder
Game X -30 mins by dude1 <--- previous record holder


now... if one more person submits a movie even faster, the current slowest one will be removed as we will only keep the 2 top fastest movies

But I'm sure noone will... atleast not for a long time


Anyway, before anything happens, we need to see it first.
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