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Old 15 August 2005, 18:49   #21
Peanutuk
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I asked about Toki as Amiga Power Issue 3's cover piece was about Toki being the "perfect conversion". You might want to check out the review as the issue has been added to the site (www.amigapower.com).
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Old 16 August 2005, 00:23   #22
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here is a good question, could we had a strider version like megadrive or was it not
feasable ?

An answer about this codetapper ? Was the amiga capable of this or not ?
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Old 16 August 2005, 00:32   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal
Tried some arcade versions of Amiga games I owned (through MAME).

Wonderboy In Monsterland - Amiga version is way better, but the arcade version has more variation in the monsters, and the bosses have a more difficult pattern. I got my ass kicked by the jumping one on the third level, which I beat with one hand behind my back on the Amiga.

Mortal Kombat 1 & 2- arcade version has okay graphics and sound, but the computer is very fast. I didn't see a way to set the difficulty either. PC version of MK1 and snes version of MK2 still rule IMO.
I think the Master System version of Wonderboy in Monster was the best version. It has a larger play area and the screen only follows the character on the horizontal axis, not on the vertical too like the other versions of Monster Land/Bikkuriman World. The Amiga version also had keep the floppy spinning which was a bit annoying.

I've never likes fighting games on the Amiga, too many disk changes and crap controls. The SNES version was a good conversion, but the 32X version was supposed to be even better. I think it's a crap games altogether, really.
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Old 16 August 2005, 00:34   #24
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I have never played a megadrive in my life so don't know the specs sorry.

What I do know is if you had a decent team of programmers (not Tiertex!) doing the conversion, it would have been a lot better. Those monkeys didn't even use the copper for graduated backgrounds - instead they had lots of nasty tiles with awful dithering for slight colour changes. No doubt due to it being a dual ST and Amiga release and thus taking the Amiga version "down" to the ST's level. Also notice how tiny the gameplay area is - a huge panel down the bottom takes up a third of the screen and the game area above it has big black strips where more tiles should have been! Awful conversion (and yet it got 96% and a Zzap gold medal for the Amiga version! Incredible!)

Also regarding Toki, the Amiga Power review is a joke in my opinion. It says the arcade doesn't even have the parallax layer the Amiga version has - that is complete nonsense. I just checked in MAME and it has a parallax layer all through it. I also disagree with AP saying how fair the game is and the collision detection is far too tough imho. I'd mark it in the low 70's not 87%...
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Old 16 August 2005, 01:02   #25
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I agree, the collision detection in Toki has made me pull out my hair many a time. Seeing how Toki is made by Ocean, I wonder why they couldn't base their collision routines on those implemented in Elf, which plays VERY smoothly and was released in the same year according to the HOL.

I guess they wanted to keep the game as close to the coin-up as possible (but why change the death animation then, I wonder). That or Nirvana Systems wouldn't fork over the code for Elf
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Old 16 August 2005, 01:25   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal
Turbo Outrun - the speed of the arcade version is just insane, unplayable. Also the amiga version had better music........Vindicators - arcade version has more variation in enemies and plays a lot smoother, amiga version has better music and sounds, and the pickups are placed a little better (fx. more fuel pickups).
I've noticed that a lot of Amiga games have better music than the arcade version. The tune is the same but on the Amiga it is 'done' better. Is it the superiority of Paula? Maybe the arcade programmers didn't put all that much into music, since in the arcades it is hardly ever noticed, or even turned off/extremely low volume. Examples that spring to mind: Rodland, Toki perhaps, Dragon Breed, Rainbow Islands, yeah Bubble Bobble too and probably lots more. Anyone agrees on this?
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Old 16 August 2005, 03:12   #27
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explanation here, the amiga has one of the best digital sound player chip ever created
in those times.... everything is a matter of memory size, when you think strider used 16mb of memory urglll and amiga only 512kb, ahem what do you want to do then ?
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Old 16 August 2005, 17:50   #28
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And the tracking programs for the Amiga made it very easy to write the music. I have no idea how sequencing programs became so popular - modern day trackers can do far more far easier.
It's a shame they never upgraded the Paula when they made the AGA chipset, I'd imagine 16bit soundchips were a fair bit more expensive back then, though.
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Old 16 August 2005, 18:48   #29
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Most of the arcade machines use a Yamaha FM chip (like the Megadrive), and thus are restricted to FM sounds. The Amiga can playback samples, thus opening it up to greater variety of timbres. You'll probably find that the arcade stuff is done mostly using MIDI, and a custom FM sound editor. Trackers have much tighter control over playback nuances than the MIDI spec, and make it much easier to make more dynamic-sounding pieces in a low number of channels.

BTW, although I built my career on it, and it sounded better than anything bar the SID at the time, the Paula chip is a bit crap really. 8-bit, four sample channels, and that's it. No filters or anything. Full marks to people like Jochen Hippel and Rhino (TeamHoi) for writing players with generated synth sounds in (not "chip" sounds).
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Old 18 August 2005, 14:03   #30
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The Megadrive's soundchip is the YM2612 which has 6 FM channels, but the 6th channel on it could be used to play 8bit samples, but it had no chance of standing up against the SNES's 8bit SPC700 and it's 8 channel 16bit DAC.
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Old 18 August 2005, 14:59   #31
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There are two sound chips in the Megadrive, the non-FM chip is the same as the audio chip in the Master System (and BBC!), and has three square wave channels and a white noise channel. Playing back samples is achieved using the volume register on this chip, in the same way that you would get the C64 to play samples. It produced 4-bit samples.

As to the SNES chip: Nightmare. I hated it. It's the precursor to the Playstation and PS2 audio chips, which are also both dreadful. It only has 64k for both player code, music data, and samples. The samples are compressed into 4-bit, which effectively tripled the RAM, but that killed any chance of doing real-time synthesizing. If you wanted the reverb in there (actually a very simple delay unit), that took up more RAM. That means that the samples really had to be miniscule. Not only that, but because of the compression, you could only set loop-points on 16-sample boundaries. It was an arse. More RAM could have easily solved it. The Playstation and PS2 both suffer the same RAM problem, but have CD drives.
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Old 18 August 2005, 20:20   #32
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What was the chip "King Arthur's World" on the SNES used?
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Old 18 August 2005, 21:09   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrub
What was the chip "King Arthur's World" on the SNES used?
SPC700, the standard SNES chip. Why?
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Old 18 August 2005, 22:00   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWithin

BTW, although I built my career on it, and it sounded better than anything bar the SID at the time, the Paula chip is a bit crap really. 8-bit, four sample channels, and that's it. No filters or anything. Full marks to people like Jochen Hippel and Rhino (TeamHoi) for writing players with generated synth sounds in (not "chip" sounds).
It makes you wonder what the sound chip would have been like if the guys who went on to make the ensoniq synth company had stuck around....something like the apple IIGS sound chip maybe??
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Old 18 August 2005, 22:53   #35
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SPC700, the standard SNES chip. Why?
I thought it used a custom one for the Dolby surround sound
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Old 19 August 2005, 00:16   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal
Double Dragon 2 - piece of shit. Amiga version was the best.
Piece of shit ?!? WTF ? That's one of my favourite Arcade games. I LOVE this game. And the amiga version is a great conversion IMO (except the music which gets annoying). But I rather like to play the arcade version. Slightly better graphics, I love the 3button-control, there are a few more enemies and they behave a little more intelligent (example: the ninjas).

I HATE the slowdowns in MAME for this game (NO, they weren't in the real Arcade). If that wouldn't be so annoying I'd play the game more often.
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Old 19 August 2005, 02:05   #37
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You can report bugs of MAME games on http://www.mametesters.org
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Old 19 August 2005, 04:14   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrub
I thought it used a custom one for the Dolby surround sound
Not at all. Dolby surround (Prologic) is added by simply inverting one of the sound channels. On the SPC and the Playstation chips, you set stereo volume on each voice using two values, one for the left channel, one for the right. The values can be positive or negative, with a negative value meaning that the data is played inverted (flipped upside down). Setting the volume of a voice with one channel negative and the other positive causes a prologic decoder to send the voice to the rear channel.

As a side note, around about that time Dolby were not really bothered as long as they got their logo in the game. I know a couple of games only had normal stereo panning and still qualified to get a Dolby logo on them just because they had a 5 second intro with a stereo sample that had Dolby encoded in it.
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Old 21 August 2005, 21:47   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad
Piece of shit ?!? WTF ? That's one of my favourite Arcade games. I LOVE this game. And the amiga version is a great conversion IMO (except the music which gets annoying). But I rather like to play the arcade version. Slightly better graphics, I love the 3button-control, there are a few more enemies and they behave a little more intelligent (example: the ninjas).

I HATE the slowdowns in MAME for this game (NO, they weren't in the real Arcade). If that wouldn't be so annoying I'd play the game more often.

Hm, didn't notice a slow down actually. I would agree that on a real arcade machine it would probably play a lot better. So I'm changing my opinion, through EMULATION the amiga version is the best
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Old 21 August 2005, 22:24   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad
I HATE the slowdowns in MAME for this game (NO, they weren't in the real Arcade). If that wouldn't be so annoying I'd play the game more often.
Could it be your processor not being fast enough?
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