Attitudes towards Emulation

[Freakyweakywoo]

So what are your attitudes towards emulation, I've tried to give enough poll answers to cover as many different attitudes as I could, but invariable I'll miss one or two, so just try and make do with what there.

The poll is private so no one will know what you voted for, but feel free you post along with your vote

[Shoonay]

"useful but will never be better than the real thing"

If it wasn't for emulation, my long lost nostalgic moments would never return, so i wouldn't buy meself a A1200 in the first place, and now how could i copy anything to my amy's hd without the use of WinUAE?

[bippym]

"useful but will never be better than the real thing"

I went for this too!!

There is nothing like loading your Amiga/C64/Megadrive up for a proper blast

also I think emulation is a godsend ans it also helps bring fresh blood to the older generation.. A few of the members here never owned an Amiga and only got involved because of emulation!!

[AMIGAZ]

Originally Posted by bippym

"useful but will never be better than the real thing"

I went for this too!!

There is nothing like loading your Amiga/C64/Megadrive up for a proper blast

also I think emulation is a godsend ans it also helps bring fresh blood to the older generation.. A few of the members here never owned an Amiga and only got involved because of emulation!!

Dito

[Stig]

I voted "A godsend, all hail emulation" because actually a perfect emulation can be better than the real thing, which doesn't mean it would FEEL the same

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by Freakyweakywoo

The poll is private so no one will know what you voted for, but feel free you post along with your vote

Interesting, 'cause all posters actually revealed their vote! For me it's a godsend. To be able to study/play/waste time with all these emulated systems! And for the beloved Amiga, I prefer WinUAE. Can't stand that 1084S monitor anymore. Back in time I owned a kick-ass 1081, remember that?

[Marcuz]

"the devil, all emulation should be destroyed"
just because.

also i'll go get some sun now.

[Phantasm]

I voted "even better than the real thing" since I cant think of anything that I could do with real hardware that cant be done with winuae and it doesnt take up any space on my desk.

[Unknown_K]

Emulation is the only thing keeping the retro hobby alive. How many people who never touched a real Amiga or C64 ended up buying a real one after finding a fun game through emulation? The EMU croud is also helpfull in dumping original disks to images that help out both the EMU people and people who own the real hardware.

I think retro because cool because of MAME, which is just am EMU for arcade games.

[Chuckles]

"A godsend, all hail emulation"

Picking one answer really wasn't easy for me, but this one seems to me to be the most accurate, as it implies no comparison between emulation and the real thing.

Where any comparison of the two is implied, a choice is purely subjective if not placed in some context that allows for an objective comparison to be made. I was very tempted to answer "even better than the real thing", but that answer seems true to me only when I consider things like how much easier it is to use WinUAE as a way of determining what the actual requirements are to be able to run any given piece of software than it would be to perform the same task on any given model of the real thing. WinUAE wins in that comparison easily.

By that same logic though, the real thing wins easily in other areas, and that also made it tempting to answer "useful but will never be better than the real thing". For example in some games the "feel" of the controls in WinUAE just isn't quite right compared to the original, though that is more a function of the difference in controllers between the PC and the Amiga than it is due to any shortcomings of the emulator.

None of the other answers even felt close to being right to me. In the final analysis though, I look at emulation as a godsend that is a supplement to the real thing, rather than a substitute for it.

[Akira]

Originally Posted by Shoonay

"useful but will never be better than the real thing"

Ditto.

WinUAE has become an excellent tool for my Amiga.
I can connect my HD to it and test stuff, or copy shit to/from it.
I can easily and quickly test software prior to sending it to my Amiga.
I can do some quick shite without the need to move 30cm towards my Amiga :P

[Turbo2Xs]

I voted BETTER than the real thing, but this was based on emulation in general. No more sprite flicker in NES/SMS, save states, cheats in arcade games, music capture...etc

[Eny-]

"useful but will never be better than the real thing"

[Akira]

YEs I oted regarding Amga emulation only. a Genesis emulator is NO TOOL for my genesis, so it's pretty useless/

[mr_a500]

I chose "a poor substitute for the real thing". I would have chosen "useful but will never be better than the real thing" but the wording implies that it is just as good (but just will never be better).

Although WinUAE is amazing, it still has a long way to go to even be just as good. I've been testing it over the last few weeks on my work computer (I don't actually own Windows, thank god!) and it has problems with screen refreshing, borderblank in ECS, screen centering, fullscreen problems and the scrolling is jerky (like Windows scrolling) instead of the super-smooth Amiga scrolling. WinUAE also does some writing to the registry that causes major problems when you change paths. Now I have lots of crashes and strange behaviour even though I changed the names back.

WinUAE is a Windows program, so you will still have to deal with the bullshit of Windows, instead of the blissful simplicity of a real Amiga.

[Akira]

Originally Posted by mr_a500

I would have chosen "useful but will never be better than the real thing" but the wording implies that it is just as good (but just will never be better).

HMM! I didn't think of it that way, you are right!

[DrBong]

@Freakweakywoo
Are we talking emulation in general here or Amiga emulation specifically? Can't help but notice that all the responses except one seem to refer to emulation in general.

[Mr_Modem]

I voted for: "A godsend, all hail emulation"

But it should be: "A godsend, all hail Toni Wilen"

[Freakyweakywoo]

Originally Posted by DrBong

@Freakweakywoo
Are we talking emulation in general here or Amiga emulation specifically? Can't help but notice that all the responses except one seem to refer to emulation in general.

I dont think I was totaly sure which it was when I made the poll to be honest, but looking at the questions I'd say I meant in genral, but was hoping people would post there opinions about thier attitudes towards amiga/amiga emulation. Just to get a full picture. I'm very happy to see this has had such a nice turnout.

[Unknown_K]

Emulation is THE only way to get all your favorite old school arcade games using MAME. Even Bill Gates would have a hard time getting every arcade cabinet made in running condition under one roof.

With an A1200 030 expansion and WHDLoad you can easily get just about any game released for the Amiga woth playing to run.

[HOL2001]

As I said before:

Don't hesitate, just emulate.

[Amigamancer]

I have voted "bad for the Amiga scene" because this is what i believe.

[Stig]

The amiga sound pack for WinUAE plus on-screen leds do set the mood!.

[wanderer]

Can anyone recall any cases of, hmmm, "superior" emulation? A lesser machine, trying to emulate a better one? Seem to remember an Amiga emulator for C-64, or even Amstrad CPC 6128 , or am I wrong?
Surely there must have been for some systems some sort of semi-working emulators of this type?

[Unknown_K]

There were Atari ST kits that emulated a Mac

[mr_a500]

Can anyone recall any cases of, hmmm, "superior" emulation? A lesser machine, trying to emulate a better one?

Well, my Amiga 500 emulates MacOS 7.5.5 pretty nicely. It runs at nearly full speed in monochrome. Although it is an accelerated A500 with some newer parts, I still think it's pretty amazing for an '80s Amiga to be running a 1996 MacOS.

[_ThEcRoW]

Very important for the amiga scene.
I choose this altough i own and use my two classics(1200 & 500), winuae is a excellent path to running 68k code actually, when most parts for these computers are very hard to find or repair. Also, i think, that in the case of amiga it even beats the real thing in case of performance (040 at speeds over the ghz). So this is my point of view.
See ya!

Originally Posted by wanderer

A lesser machine, trying to emulate a better one?

...like a PC trying to emulate an Amiga

[Phantasm]

Well there was the Atari ST emulator for the amiga, and I guess if you count mhz for mhz, the ST could be classed as "superior" to the amiga in that one respect.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by Freakyweakywoo

I dont think I was totaly sure which it was when I made the poll to be honest, but looking at the questions I'd say I meant in genral, but was hoping people would post there opinions about thier attitudes towards amiga/amiga emulation. Just to get a full picture.

I don't think emulation of any platform/console will be better or as good as the real thing, although it gets pretty damn close to the real thing in some instances (e.g. C64 emulation is almost state of the art). I suppose it's a little bit like listening to CD versions of old music that was originally released on vinyl. It just lacks that certain something.

As for Amiga emulation, I think it's pretty important, even though I don't emulate and probably won't until all my Amigas die. By then I imagine that Amiga emulation will be as good as C64 emulation is at present (if not better!).

[HOL2001]

Originally Posted by pxscroll

...like a PC trying to emulate an Amiga

That's it ! ;-) ...
... and Toni make it possible...

[Charlie]

'Had to say 'all hail emulation'
Why?
I've never owned a 'real' Amiga. I had various Acorn computers if any of you have heard of them, & pretty d**n good they are too.
Then I came across UAE followed by AIAB. Hmmm. AmigaOS pretty good! 'Wish I'd payed more attention when it was 'worth' buying hardware.

( Please don't flame me for the last comment. I do understand that many people get alot out of their investment, & there's nothing wrong with being a retro freak. )

So a few years later & quite alot of Amiga-specific software bought, I'm very pleased with my 'Amigas' ( WinUAE, AmigaForever, Amithlon ) running on various x86 boxes along with a fair selection of other OS's inc RiscOS under emulation.
It's by far the most pleasent enviroment I use. It allows me huge room for customization. It's got lots of useful apps+games, and is the only OS I know of whose workings are fairly transparent to the user while remaining very powerful.
Also with my OS architecture hat on it's still a beautifully elegant & efficient pice of work. I can't for the life of me understand why its fundamentals haven't been ripped off by 'modern' OS' vendors rather than the largely brain-dead crud about @ present that only functions by brute force. ( Windows, Linux, MacOS to name a few )

Ranting aside, I would never have sampled all this deliciousness without emulation.
So...
All Hail Emulation!!

[bippym]

Originally Posted by wanderer

Can anyone recall any cases of, hmmm, "superior" emulation? A lesser machine, trying to emulate a better one?

A machine is only as good as its software in most cases and unfortunately pc's are blessed with Windows

If windows was as powerful (in comparative terms considering progress and development) as Workbench then PC's would be fantastic machines!

[Unknown_K]

Originally Posted by bippym

A machine is only as good as its software in most cases and unfortunately pc's are blessed with Windows

If windows was as powerful (in comparative terms considering progress and development) as Workbench then PC's would be fantastic machines!

Windows is an OS, just like workbench. The user can get what he/she needs done with the tools at hand and a little creativity.

[bippym]

Originally Posted by Unknown_K

Windows is an OS, just like workbench. The user can get what he/she needs done with the tools at hand and a little creativity.

I was referring to the power to size/requirements ratio!

Workbench had a huge underlying power with little requirements and it wasn't bloated shit.

Windows is Huuuge in comparison and is over bloated with a lot of shit and the requirements are not justified!!

If windows was a streamlined and powerful (considering the advances in technology) then it'd be beautiful to use!!

[Dr. Dude]

its the future.
Hardware that emulates hardware, its briljant, never again a game won't run due of to low or to high system. Or a graphics card that hapen not to run on ur game. A flexible and compatible system, turn ur pc to amiga or playstation

It will be the PE....personal emulator

[LocalH]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dude

its the future.
Hardware that emulates hardware, its briljant, never again a game won't run due of to low or to high system. Or a graphics card that hapen not to run on ur game. A flexible and compatible system, turn ur pc to amiga or playstation

It will be the PE....personal emulator

This is theoretically possible today, with FPGAs (it's sort of the whole concept behind the C=1 by Jeri Ellsworth). Of course, it's a lot of work, because someone has to implement the hardware on the FPGA before it can be emulated. I could see an Amiga-on-a-card using this, for example - use a suitably large FPGA to replace each chip that can vary between Amigas (for example, CPU, Agnus+Denise and their AGA counterparts, etc), and have one FPGA config for each part that you wish to emulate ('000, '020, '030 (with optional MMU, of course), '040, '060, Normal/Fat/Fatter Agnus, Normal/Super Denise, etc). Of course, you'd have a breakout box holding all the Amiga ports, and you'd basically be able to pick which pieces of hardware you want to emulate, program the FPGAs with those configs, and then start the system up.