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Old 21 April 2005, 11:33   #21
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...which just sux a$$ ...
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Old 21 April 2005, 21:04   #22
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Errr ... something is wrong here !

I saw Heretic 2 on an Amiga Meeting here in Germany running at 30 and more FPS on a 150Mhz. 603e (BPPC) with BVision ... so with higher PPC Power and Voodoo Card you can for sure get more out of it !!!
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Old 22 April 2005, 03:16   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keropi
something like 20-25 fps.... lameeeee

I bet pxscroll knows what I'm talking about
Well, that's more than acceptable for me. Every 3D game that runs at >15 fps is looking good to my eyes. I guess because i'm not spoiled with PC/PS games.
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Old 22 April 2005, 06:19   #24
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Ok Keropi for a change woody will be serious , I can see why your naffed off you spent a lot hoping to achive a killer games machine , but instead only have halfway solutions that leave you feeling cheated.

The PPC platform for Amiga has in general been poorly supported mainly because it was produced far too late and at costs beyond the reach of what was left of the amiga buying user base.

There was no massive upsurge in software production as how could the few software houses still in Amiga production at the time decide which spec were they to use as standard for a viable product that would see returns ?

Niether was it helped by the various splits in direction with Boxer , Pegasus & Fabled " super miggies " etc that were all trying to establish themselves as the next generation machine .

Instead as Bamiga2002 points out there have been been a number of tailor made PPC & 68k drivers, libaries & datatypes that the make the product useable with much of the older applications giving the user the benifit of speed [and with that extra cooling ] better images from DESKTOP based 1200 systems.

This whole big box 4000 issue is a seperate thing especialy with the high cost of special zorro based boards and their decreasing availability .There is no doubt a 4000 is more amiga than a PPC system because it has more specifically designed and tailored parts and is therefore an unfair comparison.

I am NOT targeting you Keropi as I can understand you miss your old set up and had hoped the use of newer hardware was going to lead you to as Akira said " A souped up Machine " instead you find flaws in all the areas you had hoped were going to improve .

It can be printed in 20 metre high letters that PPC will NOT GIVE YOU AN EASY TO USE BACKWARDS COMPATABLE GAMES MACHINE

But it does give serious hobby & compiler users an extended area of use for their machines.

As for one of the most serious gripes of those who have used PPC based systems about monitor switching there is a solution.
There was a small piece of hardware made by Eyetech for both the B-vision & C-Vision boards called the "Automon " which is conected to both the AGA output and the VGA and automatically switches the monitor output from one to other without having to play around with switches etc.

Finally I think Slayer hit the nail on head as there is no point in comparing a cheap modern machine to these outdated ppc expansion boards because once you reduce it to number crunching coparisons of frame rate etc the results are going to be pretty obvious.

In conclusion its back to the old creed of being able to tailor things to personal preferences [ a point that I believe set the amiga apart from other platforms] I have been suffering for over a month while my Amiga has been poorly [ see recent article about the flood ] and allthough I am sitting here writting this on a 2.7ghz p4 xp based PC I can't wait to have my PPC miggy back as my main machine as IMHO my setup allows me to do things easier and more accuratley than this so called "uptodate"
machine.
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Old 22 April 2005, 08:23   #25
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LOL, I am aware of the AUTOMON, but it simply cannot be found anymore... I have e-mailed EyeTech too, they no longer have it...
well said woody....
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Old 22 April 2005, 10:06   #26
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adequate insight you have there woodshed57

what boggles me is the amount of energy people put into keeping the Amiga in check... this is supposed to be an Amiga Board... we already KNOW the limitations and age of these machine(s) why do people constantly point out the Freaking obvious... can't they overlook the passion driven remarks of the old school... we like our freaking Amigas!

The answer I think is simple... there is the true Amiga User which has there outlook and heart in the right place and then you have these other types born of resentment or pure emulation tinkers the latter being the worst really since they never really put any money into the Amiga and grab the hard work of yesterday for nothing...

I say either fuck off or be quiet or rename this board to Emulation Always Board and I'll fuck off or be quiet...

Normally I am quiet and just shake my head and help the occassional person but hey, maybe this will help
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Old 22 April 2005, 18:08   #27
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Thumbs up To Slayer "SPOT ON "

NUFF SAID
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Old 22 April 2005, 23:42   #28
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People point out the obvious because some other people hear Amiga fanatics harping on how well their PPC plays games and they want the same setup only to find it was more hype then substance.

I frequent this board and others to learn what works for others and make purchases acordingly.

What is this "born of resentment" you are talking about Slayer? Stating a fact should never be looked down on even by the hardcore fanatics, you should speak up when people are saying something incorrect.

I don't have any problems with people emulating amiga hardware to play games, if it works for them then let them have fun. I like real hardware and have 3 Amigas myself with tons of boxed games and manuals, but that does not give me any more "heart" then somebody emulating everything. I just apreciate the hardware more then the average EMU type thats all (and have space to setup my collection).

This board is what it is because of the guy who set it up and maintains it along with the users including the noobs and experts.
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Old 23 April 2005, 00:34   #29
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The root of this PPC thread is based on users experience and how they found its "usefulness " to their applied software requirements.

Slayer [ as I have I ] has merely stated his views and opinions on the matter , just as you Unknown K have stated yours on his last post . The point I will not argue with is RCK's ideals that this board is for " Everybody " with an Amiga based interest .

Now if it becomes the case that there appears a bias in its content towards "EMU ONLY" then it factually is no longer covering that broader interest .

That I interpret is what Slayer meant .

But to get to the point of this thread Unknown K what has been your experience of PPC useage ? after all without picking a standpoint on this issue you are not making yourself clear unless its a gripe against

quote " Amiga fanatics harping on how well their PPC plays games "

Which is a myth this thread has adequetly dealt with , unless you can provide us with a more in depth answer of course .
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Old 23 April 2005, 00:43   #30
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In other words... Don't we just love to love the Amiga, no matter the config or anything?
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Old 23 April 2005, 01:19   #31
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I don't have a PPC in any of my Amigas since its not needed for 99.999% of the Amiga games I play as noted by a few people here.

The few PPC games are just ports of games I have for my PC anyway.

I just don't like Slayers elitist attitude on the subject
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Old 23 April 2005, 02:22   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer
we like our freaking Amigas!
I like my freaking Amiga. It's got an 030 in it
Quote:
there is the true Amiga User which has there outlook and heart in the right place and then you have these other types born of resentment or pure emulation tinkers
Out of resentment? Resentment towards WHAT? My 68K Amiga does just what I want it to and I bet my ass that I use it far more SERIOUSLY than your PPC Amiga. Why? Mine gives me money, yours probably eats it.

Out of resentment? My heart definitely lies in the right place, and that is qith my little 030 powered A1200 which I use almost everyday for work. So cut this "i'm l337 I got a PPC' garbage. Because yu actually make me want to lagh.

I certainly don't emulate, by the way.
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Old 23 April 2005, 02:46   #33
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Ive had a A1200 PPC setup since the bppc 040/160 cards came out and bvision when it came out. I certainly wouldnt go back to plain 68k, it would just be an unusable in my eyes as ppc adds a fair bit of speed through faster dataypes and os patches. in plain 68k mode about the only thing my machine would be useful for is playing whd games. Amiga is no fun anymore without ppc.

its mentioned that the thaught of playing 3d games at 20-25 fps is a real put off and this is on the slowest possible ppc setup. well if you going to be like that then 68k suxx too as the thaught of playing doom at 7-15 fps constant is shitty too. Only heretic2 gets abit too slow at times on my setup, but wipeout, quake, quake2, shogo, freespace on ppc totaly blow the equivelent 68k versions away. Payback also becomes a playable game on ppc .

ppc also brings us enough speed to do all the things most other users take for granted like playing mp3s , movies, encoding and emulating and especially improves browsing experiance.

for anyone that really just wants a retro machine to play the oldies then no money needs to be wasted at all as no upgrades are required at all.

To end, I almost took Akiras words seriously untill he called minimac a pro box. to call a ppc amiga a waste ot time and money and then call a mini mac that uses up all its resources just loading the os a pro box is laughable. sure you can play mp3s on it , and the odd low res divx, but thats as far as the machine goes, cant play games at all, and not enough resources to load any quality apps.

possibly best app i ever baught is FxPaint for my miggy, fast, simple and effective prog thats fun to use at same time.
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Old 23 April 2005, 03:07   #34
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In which ways a ppc amiga is more preferable than a macmini? It's not more useful/powerful/faster or economical than a macmini. I'm out of ideas!

Last edited by oldpx; 23 April 2005 at 03:15.
 
Old 23 April 2005, 06:22   #35
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It was up to the individual to adopt the appropriate label... funny how most held the alterative flag high and proud...

thank god for woodshed57

And a good reason to be elitest in situations like this Unknown_K (aside from being one of makeup) is I believe alot of people don't belong here...

And as for Akira, I simply don't get this persona... if I (which I don't believe I actually did, in the context Akira paints me) can't voice to the world the beauty of PPC or whatever Amiga addon etc on/via an Amiga Forum Thread where the hell can I...

exactly...

what I am complaining about is the freedom of which some other less Amiga passionate users can simply stroll in and add there useless two cents worth... The Amiga section of this board needs a revamp... i.e. tighter conduct rules on Amiga related topics...

btw Akira, in 1988 I started a modelling business with another Amiga chap called DEL (digital enhancements ltd) we should have been very rich indeed but because of a falling out I decided I wouldn't make him rich (since he owned half the company) so, I didn't get rich either... that's the power of my elitest nature, cut off my nose to spite my face...

It's not the Amigas fault... heh...

So your Amiga makes you money... heh... I have 31 Amiga systems and I'm sure they could all make me money too...

All I want is to be able to talk freely about Amiga topics and just feel good amongst other enthusiasts... you just don't get this on here so most of the time I don't say anything even though I've got valuable insight into many things... cos someone is always beating that stupid drum!! putting the Amiga in its place...And you can't talk around people forever, well, I could but most haven't got the self discipline to accomplish that... always said the most affective weapon online was ignorance...

ah yes btw, I think the deal with some users of PPC equipment is the inability to set things up properly... the PPC A4000T I have has heretic, hexen and quake installed and also wipeout... all games perform more than adequately... but then, I don't play games anyway...
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Old 23 April 2005, 06:43   #36
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It's hardly suprising that at some point this subject would develop into splintered and at times agravated discusion because the PPC boards development was third party & poorly supported from its begining.

Your standpoint Akira is indisputeable because when a user is satisfied with tools they can trust , there is no good reason to pursue an expensive replacement that falls short in the areas they currently rely on just to have it sit there as a " curiosity ornament " and it is foolish for anyone to try to convince you otherwise.

Members who are choosing an Amiga set up specification need [as Keropi pointed out at the begining ] to have a very clear picture of not just the difficulties of PPC boards [including g-Rex permutations & mediator ] but also to know "if there is anything " they can actually do besides sounding a good idea at the time.

As yet only Keropi himself has drawn a comparison over the G-Rex route I just wonder if there are any other members who have either a more positive [ or even less] experience of these currently available solutions .

I certainly accept your points [ Akira & UnknownK ] that maybe in retrospect some of Slayers last post was provocative , but then I expect he was hoping to stimulate a response other than the GOOD vs BAD arguements that had so far been raised.

In any event this thread seems to be developing into a more balanced exchange , but I doubt it given some of the extreme comparisons made that it can remain so

Good topic choice Keropi
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Old 23 April 2005, 07:15   #37
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nicely said woodshed57

I forgot to add I tend to be an extremist when I convey a view, opinion or suggestion... cut to the chase so to speak so sometimes yes, I can be provocative/abrasive in the manner I come across and some things aren't as clear cut as they appear... there is gray matter occasionally, not just inside the skull

I am just Pro Amiga and most don't, won't or can't relate to what it means simply because they are born many years later or never really invested such extreme amounts of time and money into a business/hobby/lifestyle as I, hence my elitist attitude...

Call it what you want, perhaps I'm a mug and you approached things in a smarter way, conserving things etc, but regardless of the way you live you can be guaranteed there is pros and cons to every choice of how to live life but this board is supposed to be part of the 'Amiga' choice of life...

Some of us do not require negative or realistic input pertaining to hardware, software, speculation... so perhaps we need a specific hardcore fanatics forum section for as I touched on above...

woodshed57 can be our moderator I'd be great too (I do moderate at other forums...) but perhaps I'd be too precise in conducting my duties afterall I am quite the maticulous SOB in regards to responsibility...
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Old 23 April 2005, 20:51   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer
the PPC A4000T I have
I hate you.
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Old 24 April 2005, 00:06   #39
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Quote:
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To end, I almost took Akiras words seriously untill he called minimac a pro box. to call a ppc amiga a waste ot time and money and then call a mini mac that uses up all its resources just loading the os a pro box is laughable. sure you can play mp3s on it , and the odd low res divx, but thats as far as the machine goes, cant play games at all, and not enough resources to load any quality apps
Well, your post was great until you flipped that switch in your organism that makes your words start to come out of your rear end.

What you say here is obviously a load of bollocks and comes out of complete and sheer ignorance about the Apple platform and its OS. If I was to believe you, what the fuck am I doing with my iBook G3 (yes G3) system, running the latest revision of Panther, and using apps like Photoshop CS, Macromedia Studio MX 2004, Adobe After Effects, Final Cut Pro, etc? Some of them, sometimes, concurently?
What on Earth are you talking about?

I accept though, the mac mini is a consmer line model, not a pro model, so if I said so I stand corrected. Nevertheless what you say is absolute garbage.


@Slayer: sorry if it sounds like a personal attack, I'm just strongly disagreeing about your view. I did not mean "don't speak about PPCs", I meant more like "be honest about them" and "don't be elitist"

You mean it as if you don't like PPC, you are not passionate about the Amiga. "some other less Amiga passionate users", you say. Am I less passionate becasue I don't have a PPC? I am VERY passionate about my machine otherwise i would have sold it and not use it in my everyday work. I am as passionate about my 030 Amiga as you ar about your PPC. therefore, our disagreement.
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Old 24 April 2005, 04:53   #40
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ah ok,

people have read me slightly wrong too then, in light of
the specifics of the thread I guess I can understand it...

I tend to just stick up for anything Amiga related not
because it's better in comparison to modern day stuff
but because the Amiga for me has and always will do what
it was/is supposed to do...and THAT is enough!

drawing comparisons is just stupid and I'm very against
this kind of post given the theme of this forum...we
should help preserve the spirit not pound the community
with realistic undermining

In this thread we have someones personal experience that
ended up not being their worthwhile... I put it to you
that this scenario will always result when one does not
place enough research into something prior to obtaining/
purchasing and also when one has a certain specific
ideal in mind far outside what realistically one should
expect...

They state very clearly about being their opinion etc etc
another thing I do not like very much, anyone can give
a disclaimer and then proceed to demean the subject
matter... instead of cherishing it they end up despising
it...

So Akira I love my 030/040/060 just as much as the PPC
machine, hell, I've only got one 233mhz, so I probably
love collectively the non PPC stuff

All I wanted to say in this thread was the PPC did exactly
what it was supposed to do and I've always been very happy
with it...

and I do apologise for pressing return at the end of every
line I realised I'd done it too late into the post...
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