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Old 17 February 2005, 16:07   #1
FallenSeraphin
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Exclamation WinUae vs WinFellow

Is this real ? in WinFellow sound runs smooth as silk but has graphics issues, and in WinUae graphics are perfect but has EXTREME sound problems, could never get the thing to work properly, no matter what the configuration why dont the 2 teams get together and share the code to get some program that actually does the job properly ?????? is the competition that alive ? the only program that actually worked +- fine was WinFellow's dos port and i cant even find it on the net now

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Old 17 February 2005, 16:58   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenSeraphin
Is this real ? in WinFellow sound runs smooth as silk nut has graphics issues, and in WinUae graphics are perfect but has EXTREME sound problems, could never get the thing to work properly, no matter what the configuration why dont the 2 teams get together and share the code to get some program that actually does the job properly ?????? is the competition that alive ? the only program that actually worked +- fine was WinFellow's dos port and i cant even find it on the net now
What's your machine specs? What settings are you using?
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Old 17 February 2005, 17:09   #3
FallenSeraphin
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Big grin

PII 450mhz
256mb ram pc100
WinXP Pro SP2
6gb HD
Riva TNT M64 16mb
Starstorm drivers forceware 56.72

As i said in another post, i usually get 50fps with a500 perfect emulation (slowest) and 100% acurate stereo sound with no filter (as i found it crashes with some games) v1.3 kickrom / v3.1 kickrom depending on game, 800x600 32bit 85hz. Winfellow has graphic issues (celtic legends) and WinUae has sound issues (space crusade) among others...
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Old 17 February 2005, 17:41   #4
BippyM
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Get a decent machine and WinUAE will be perfect

Trust me
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Old 17 February 2005, 17:57   #5
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For a machine of your spec, a good piece of advice is to use an older version of Winuae (8.8.16 is a good choice I think) because every new version of Winuae that gets released does more stuff to make it even more accurate thus putting more strain on your old PC.
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Old 17 February 2005, 18:15   #6
FallenSeraphin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenSeraphin
I get 50fps with a500 perfect emulation (slowest) and 100% acurate stereo sound with no filter (as i found it crashes with some games) v1.3 kickrom / v3.1 kickrom depending on game, 800x600 32bit 85hz
i think thats proof enough that my machine can take the speed issues... its always at 50fps max because i cap it at 50, or it would be even faster... besides, if WinFellow works normally (except for some graphics issues on very few games) how come this crashes ? maybe ill take Big-Byte advice and try a older version... anyone knows where to get the oldies ? i got all the games from different sources, but maybe some are corrupt (wich i doubt) since i cannot play celtic legends on winfellow because of graphics corruption and on winuae because of sound... its fragging annoying
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Old 17 February 2005, 19:05   #7
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Does you motherboard have on-board sound? It is very CPU intensive especially on older motherboards and could be the source of your problem. A soundblaster 5.1 is cheap and will make a huge difference. Also, take a closer look at your specs:

System barely covers the minimum spec for WinXP
Graphics card that is not fully DX8 compatible, never mind DX9.

I mean no offense as everyone has a budget, but please be realistic. Emulation is already processor intensive as it is, anyone who has disabled sound will have noticed how much extra speed they can get in certain situations. And with every game pushing the amiga to different limits regarding graphics and sound, there will always be some that struggle on slower machines. I am fortunate to have a fairly swift machine now (P4 2.4 gig), but my old P3 800 had a few problems with sound, especially Aladdin AGA. Just a few small upgrades (memory, graphics & sound) would make a big difference for not much cash.

I have never tried winfellow, and i don`t need to as WINUAE does everything i want.

Mark
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Old 17 February 2005, 19:19   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenSeraphin
Is this real ? in WinFellow sound runs smooth as silk but has graphics issues, and in WinUae graphics are perfect but has EXTREME sound problems, could never get the thing to work properly, no matter what the configuration why dont the 2 teams get together and share the code to get some program that actually does the job properly ?????? is the competition that alive ? the only program that actually worked +- fine was WinFellow's dos port and i cant even find it on the net now
I used to have those extreme sound problems with my old computer, believe me it'll be as good as perfect if you just upgrade. In fact the lowest-end machine you can get now will be able to run winuae well. Why would the teams target any lesser hardware? WinFellow wasn't developed for a very long time, luckily this changed but UAE and Fellow were always different projects and WinUAE is many times better worked on (if not many times "better") than WinFellow so I don't think a competition exists as of today.

You have options though. Winuae version 0.8.8r8 will work well with your machine as well as dosfellow.
 
Old 17 February 2005, 19:36   #9
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Question

I can't upgrade because its the pc i use for my company, its enough for databases, word projects and internet... i make the best with what i got, its allready overclocked to its limit this is my home pc :


AMD Athlon 64 FX55 @ 2.6ghz
Win XP Pro SP2
Asus A8N SLI Deluxe1024MB OCZ EB PC3700 @ 2.5-2-2-10
2x Leadtek PCI-E Geforce 6800GT's 256mb SLI
2x WD Raptor RAID 0 +WD Caviar Special ED 200GB
Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro + Logitech Z680's


Still has +- the same issues, so im pretty sure its not the pc that's slow... So we go back to the winuae sound programming I finally got celtic legends sound to function ok changing the cpu to "after picasso96" and putting everything to its top speed wich is awkward in the least... this is one of the oldest games that in every forum everybody tells me to put everything in a500 emulation... can someone explain this to me ?

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Old 17 February 2005, 20:21   #10
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As MSC noted, that hardware barely meets minimums specs for WinXP, which could be one factor at least. I have a PIII/700 running WinUAE with very good results, but I'm running Win98SE, which uses less system resources. I used to get the same results on a PIII/500. For either of those hardware setups, I won't even consider moving to XP because it leaves less free resources for any other software I might run.

As for the relative performance of WinUAE vs. WinFellow, you have to consider the fact that WinUAE is currently a considerably more complete emulation than is WinFellow, and as a result it is consuming more of the available CPU cycles in order to do its work. You're not making its work any easier though based on the details of the configs that you're using, and by changing some of those, you might get better performance. For example, you say that you're running in 800x600 w/32 bit color? Why? If you're emulating a machine like the early Amiga versions, an NTSC display for many games may have actually required a display area of no greater than 320x200, and even 8 bit color would be more than enough to represent the number of colors actually used by the game (Shadow of the Beast is a good example of this). I seem to have a vague recollection that trying to use 8 bit color in WinUAE doesn't buy you anything performance wise, but that using a 16 bit color mode might. By asking WinUAE to use an 800x600x32, you're asking it to manipulate a much larger amount of memory for each frame than it has to deal with at 320x200x16, and that has to impact overall performance on a slower machine. Personally, I use PowerStrip to create custom fullscreen resolutions for my video card such as 320x200x16, 640x400x16 and a few others representing PAL screenmodes. By using those screenmodes in WinUAE, I get a display that much more closely resembles the actual native Amiga screen modes, while reducing the amount of work that WinUAE has to do.

As for sound problems, the first thing to be sure of is that the drivers for your sound card are up to date. Beyond that, it takes some fiddling around to find what works best for your own setup. For me, I found that I had to set the sound buffer size to its absolute minimum or I get lag. You might also consider the sound frequency settings as something that you might want to change. I'm not sure that a sound frequency of 44K makes the emulation any more authentic than 22K, but it might be putting a greater load on WinUAE.

The bottom line is that you CAN coax better performance out of WinUAE if you really take a look at your various configuration settings, though whether you can coax enough performance out of them to run everything perfectly or not remains to be seen. Even apart from changing configuration settings within WinUAE, there may be other things in the overall configuration of the machine itself that you could do to free up some processing power for WinUAE and any other apps that you might run. Over time, installing various bits of software can result in a lot of little apps being set up to launch automatically in the background whenever you boot Windows, and each of those uses up some of your available resources. You might want to review the things that are loaded at startup and see if there are any you don't really need. And if you haven't done so before, download and run a few of the anti-spyware tools that are freely available out there. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen my systems performance shot to hell because of spyware that snuck onto my machine.

Hope this info is of some help!
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Old 17 February 2005, 20:50   #11
FallenSeraphin
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Evil grin

I apreciate all the info but so far it did f***all to solve my problem. 3rd time i tell you guys, with everything at acurest emulation, therefore slowest and more cpu-consuming i get average 50fps BECAUSE ITS CAPPED AT 50 or i would get about 70fps/75fps average, i know perfectly what my pc can or cannot do, i fix them for a living... Besides with my home pc (see above thread) i get the same sound issues and i can tell you with certanty that i do not have any driver conflicts, spyware and /or virus in both pcs (im kind of a security freak) I tell you more, at the same time im playing amiga games i have USB internet (wich consumes about 10% system resources) and AntiVir Personal Edition with Euristics set on maximum. Therefore you can see how my system is tweaked for speed. I can play Unreal Tournament on-line at 800x600 16bit (work pc) at average 40fps with 11 more players...

BARE MINIMUM SPECS FOR WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL ARE AMD-K5 200MHZ WITH 32MB RAM

More so, i have SP2 on both, therefore the system is about 30% faster on average...

SO, speed issue set aside, can anyone tell me why winuae sound freaks out ? and why with the same specs winfellow works perfectly at about the same emu speeds ?
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Old 17 February 2005, 21:11   #12
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I appreciate your frustration, but have to repeat that the sound in the latest versions of winuae is superb, at least for me and many others.
I am at work at the mo, but when i can, i will dig out a version of space crusade and try it on my config and report back.



P,s. Have you seen XP running on that config
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Old 17 February 2005, 21:30   #13
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Well, if you're the least bit interested in an accurate emulation of an Amiga then it shouldn't surprise you that the frame rate would be capped at 50 fps if you've selected the PAL chipset, or at 60 fps if you've selected NTSC. Those frame rates are what the Amiga was capable of in those video modes. If you're upset that you're not getting 70 - 75 fps, then you're not interested in an accurate emulation at all, but that's hardly an indication that WinUAE is poorly implemented. It just isn't trying to exceed the capabilities of the machines it emulates. Maybe the problem has nothing to do with whether or not you know what your machine can do, but has more to do with whether or not you know what an Amiga can do.
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Old 17 February 2005, 21:34   #14
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i installed it once just for a laugh in a old compaq i had :

AMD-K6 200Mhz
32mb ram pc100
6gb HD UDMA33
S3Trio64 v2+ 2mb pci
MatroxM3D PowerVR 4mb pci
Ess Audiodrive pci

As you see this was really bare minimum and i was amazed that i could run Unreal at 640*480 24bit max quality at a leisurely 35fps average... Thank God for the M3D (i used PowerVR generic drivers, since the Matrox ones were crap)...

I allready put celtic legends to work in WinUae as i stated before, but space crusade just stops after the laguage selection screen. Im a strategy fanatic, so i love games like Deuteros, Millennium, etc... Space Crusade is a favorite of mine because of all the warhammer stuff that comes behind it, all the books and board-games. Celtic Legends is a VERY adictive game for me, as was Battle Isle...

is there any way i could post pics here ? i could show you my WinUae specs...
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Old 17 February 2005, 21:39   #15
FallenSeraphin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckles
Well, if you're the least bit interested in an accurate emulation of an Amiga then it shouldn't surprise you that the frame rate would be capped at 50 fps if you've selected the PAL chipset, or at 60 fps if you've selected NTSC. Those frame rates are what the Amiga was capable of in those video modes. If you're upset that you're not getting 70 - 75 fps, then you're not interested in an accurate emulation at all, but that's hardly an indication that WinUAE is poorly implemented. It just isn't trying to exceed the capabilities of the machines it emulates. Maybe the problem has nothing to do with whether or not you know what your machine can do, but has more to do with whether or not you know what an Amiga can do.
PLEASE READ THE POSTS BEFORE MAKING DUMB COMMENTS i capped it at 50 on purpose and allready tryied it on maximum 99fps it gave 70fps/75fps max on my work pc i think its a good speed for a PII450Mhz

MEANING : i allready benchmarked it and found that it simply wasnt worth it to max the draw speed.
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Old 17 February 2005, 22:39   #16
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I read your posts fully, which I suspect is a lot more than you did with mine. If I'm so dumb, why is it that I don't seem to have any problem getting WinUAE to run like a dream on a low-spec machine? My guess would be that you've just skimmed over every suggestion that anyone has made here without actually trying anything different than what you've already done, since you're convinced that the problem lies with a poor WinUAE implementation, and nothing else. Since it is obvious that you don't care to apply basic troubleshooting techniques, I'll not waste any more of your time nor mine in offering any further suggestions that you'd merely ignore anyway. Some folks don't really want help, they just want somebody to listen to them complain, it seems.
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Old 17 February 2005, 22:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckles
If I'm so dumb, why is it that I don't seem to have any problem getting WinUAE to run like a dream on a low-spec machine? My guess would be that you've just skimmed over every suggestion that anyone has made here without actually trying anything different than what you've already done, since you're convinced that the problem lies with a poor WinUAE implementation, and nothing else.
He doesnt get it, does he ? my problem is SOUND, nothing else, as i said... everything else works 200% and you can see that in my prior posts IN A VERY LOW-END SYSTEM as everybody here stated. Ive done everything people told me to do so far and nothing works, capiche ? since ive been having this problem with every computer and configuration i had using WinUae, i would like to know what kind of code are these guys using. WinFellow in the same specs works like a dream, aside from some graphics glitches in SOME games like celtic legends. I would like to know what is the problem, if one can do it why can't the other ? Simple, no ? please tell me you understood that...

My 2nd comp was a amiga500, so i know the drill, and had my share of "guru meditations" before learning how to use it properly. My original question was if is it possible for a decompilation of the WinUae/WinFellow code to see what is the problem thus fixing them. I DO NOT GIVE A RATS ASS WHO MAKES THE EMULATORS, as long as they work. I dont mind making donations as long as the're worth my time

Look, im sorry if i overreacted, but ive been getting so many diferent causes for a very simple problem that this is really ticking me off... on top of that im sleeping lousy because of my 3 weeks old puppy, i have to feed her every other hour (even night time)...

Last edited by FallenSeraphin; 17 February 2005 at 23:05.
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Old 18 February 2005, 01:17   #18
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Would you care to attach your configuration file here before commenting on the way winuae is built? I don't know how two completely different setups can produce the same problems unless there is a common problem with the way winuae is configured.
 
Old 18 February 2005, 01:34   #19
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No problem, compare the 2 and you will see the diferences... these configs are the only way i got the game Celtic Legends to work 100%... still couldnt put Space Marines to work on WinUAE
Attached Files
File Type: uae Celtic Legends.uae (10.8 KB, 151 views)
File Type: wfc Celtic Legends.wfc (1.2 KB, 141 views)
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Old 18 February 2005, 01:42   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenSeraphin
No problem, compare the 2 and you will see the diferences... these configs are the only way i got the game Celtic Legends to work 100%... still couldnt put Space Marines to work on WinUAE

At first I thought this was a joke!?! What kind of config is that! (the winuae one)

No amiga ever had a configuration anywhere near the one you've just posted!

040 with kick 1.3, 8mb chip? Bizarre...
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