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Old 28 July 2004, 23:18   #1
sut
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To Play ? Or To Collect ?

For the past 6 months I've been gradually building myself an Atari ST games catalogue, putting the games in alphabetical order even if they are on menu's to build a massive collection of games. Also at this time I've been performing the same tasks for the other machines I used to own, the Sega 32x, Sega Mega CD & I have just commenced on Amiga CD32 trying to obtain all the games I can for these systems.
Then I suddenly thought i'm spending all this time collecting games for various systems for use on emulators BUT am I actually gonna play all these games ? The answer is an emphatic no.
So is this just an obsession I've developed and i'm wasting my time ? should I just collect the games I actually want to play and actually play the damn things.

Would like to read your thoughts on this topic, tell me your opinions.
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Old 28 July 2004, 23:43   #2
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I feel exactly the same way... I think that the "obsession" about building such collections comes from having access to all that data, a thing that we didn't have before when we were actually wanting to play all these games...

In the beginning of my AMiGA collection, i usually found myself get hyped for finding games that back in the days i pursue so badly but couldn't get hold of...

Same thing when in May i bought myself an external FDD, yes it's pretty useless now with WHDload and stuff, but i was very happy to finally obtain such item!
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Old 29 July 2004, 01:18   #3
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Collecting is not amassing game images off FTP's and stuff. That's just leeching.

Collecting is getting the actual hardware, and the actual software, and if you want, play it. I only have bought the Amiga games I really liked back then when I couldn't purchase the originals. Obviously I don't play with the original disks, I installed them into my HD with WHDLoad and I don't have to jeopardize teh safety of my original disks.

What is the effort of downloading crap off the internet? Everyone can do it. In the end you end up feeling like you feel now.

Yes, it is a waste of time. I used to download lots of crap like this off the net, until I got bored. But never I thought about it all as a "collection". Whenever someone spoke to me about his "ROMs collection" I wanted to puke.
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Old 29 July 2004, 02:14   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira
Collecting is not amassing game images off FTP's and stuff. That's just leeching.

Collecting is getting the actual hardware, and the actual software, and if you want, play it. I only have bought the Amiga games I really liked back then when I couldn't purchase the originals. Obviously I don't play with the original disks, I installed them into my HD with WHDLoad and I don't have to jeopardize teh safety of my original disks.

What is the effort of downloading crap off the internet? Everyone can do it. In the end you end up feeling like you feel now.

Yes, it is a waste of time. I used to download lots of crap like this off the net, until I got bored. But never I thought about it all as a "collection". Whenever someone spoke to me about his "ROMs collection" I wanted to puke.
Downloading has its place, trying out a game to see if you like it. I have GB's of adf's on my HD, but I also have at least 150 Boxed Amiga and ST games too (no Idea how many PC games I have, quite a few)
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Old 29 July 2004, 02:25   #5
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That depends really...

I consider my AMiGA Games in IPF's and ADF's as much a "collection" as i do with my DVD "collection". Ok one can say that we can make a DVD-R "collection", the term "collection" here refers to a bunch of movies, rather than collection of "collectible items" like my dvd's are...
So i totally agree with you when you say that owning the "actual" stuff is Collecting.

But realizing that AMiGA games exists in a obsolete material of which is prone to broke, i don't want to collect the actual stuff, because i would end up having material that i can't use, just for "displaying", and i don't waste my hard earning money on something that doesn't work... Heck, i used to own roughly 60/80 original AMiGA games, but all this time that they were storaged all that remains are 2 that i can actually use...
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Old 29 July 2004, 02:34   #6
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BTW... leeching like you said is "amassing game images off FTP's and stuff", but collecting the stuff is the job that it's done after downloading it.

I think that "leech" is not the proper word to describe the action.
Maybe is just me, but i classify a "leecher" as someone who downloads everything just to have it all, not to make use of it...
One thing is not having the time to play all the games that we download, other thing is dowloading just to have it... at least that's my opinion...
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Old 29 July 2004, 02:39   #7
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Eny- your reply is the standard used by all leeches, why pay for anything that has the possibility of breaking when I can just d/l it for free (saving me money).

I don't display my games, they sit on my shelves until I feel like playing them. And I do use the original disks when I install a game, thats what I purchased them for (along with having the real manuals and box art). With original games I dont have to worry about half assed cracks that dont work, or can skim the manual for hints at what I am supposed to do. If boxes take up too much space just store them and keep the disks and manuals in your desk. I havnt had a game with a bad disk yet.
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Old 29 July 2004, 02:54   #8
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I don't know how you guys can classify collecting/leeching as something elite/lame. On another point of view collecting old things can be considered a rather freaky activity and downloading them as the time saving, more logical method. Not that this is this is the way I think!

Downloading something can't be considered collecting because you are mostly unaware of what you have batch downloaded, it's not fully intentional, not aimed towards completing a group of -something- based on your personal choice but this doesn't make leeching all that bad. I leeched a lot and now hosting a ftp so people can leech from me as much as my connection allows. (I'll regret to announce that soon )It's great to realize that something is sitting on my storage space when I want it. And these collections should spread as much as possible.
 
Old 29 July 2004, 02:55   #9
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I'm talking about AMiGA Games, not other kind of media... I buy my PC games as well as my movies... and like i said i owned original miggy games, so i have nothing to do with a kind of subject you described...

As i got burned one time with a kind of media that easily breaks, i'm not up to wasting more money on it. Does that makes me person that "why pay for anything that has the possibility of breaking when I can just d/l it for free (saving me money)"

I never defended those you describe as leechers... i defended one point of view.
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Old 29 July 2004, 02:59   #10
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About collecting hardware... I'm a proud owner of a A500 / A500+ / A600 / A1200.

Except for the A1200 that i actually use, all of them are in storage, but they are in great shape and fully working, if they were broke i wouldn't storage it...
If i couldn't get them in top shape again, i would ultimatly put them in the trash (of course that this would be in a far far far away future )
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Old 29 July 2004, 03:08   #11
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If these so called leechers get their fix by having a 10,000 bliboflop+ hard disk drive array and enjoy using thier broadband/T1 connections to the fullest then let them I say. Good luck to them.

And if they decide to open up a few ports on thier computers (maybe port 21, FTP for example) to let people download a few things then all the better for the rest of us.
 
Old 29 July 2004, 03:18   #12
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I don't have a problem with d/l games, like I said I do it too its called pirating. If you actualy play the game more then 15 minutes (very few leechers ever do) then you should purchase it at some point. The only difference with old games like you find on the Amiga is that buying a game these days just supports the few companies reselling games or the original purchaser, the game companies and authors don't make anything unless the re-release it and you buy the new version (not going to happen often).

I just have a problem with the people who justify their pirating because the games they can buy might break sometime down the road, and their money is hard earned etc. Excuses, excuses to make it sound more noble. If you do it, do it and shut up, don't try to make it sound legal and justified because it is not. Still it's not a crime I would hang you for, If it was up to me any game not for sale for more then 5 years in any form (retail or online) should be free for copying (not reselling).

As far as collecting goes, amassing anything related to a topic is collecting wether it is real or in digital binary form. I dont see a difference between somebody d/l the complete tosec from a newsgroup or just buying 1000 boxed games from a store, they are both collectors (unless they get them for resale).
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Old 29 July 2004, 03:56   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_K
I just have a problem with the people who justify their pirating because the games they can buy might break sometime down the road, and their money is hard earned etc. Excuses, excuses to make it sound more noble. If you do it, do it and shut up, don't try to make it sound legal and justified because it is not. Still it's not a crime I would hang you for, If it was up to me any game not for sale for more then 5 years in any form (retail or online) should be free for copying (not reselling).
But... excuses for what? i'm not excusing for nothing, i was just stating a fact... The same goes for VHS ~ DVD. I would in a heart beat favor a fuzzy quality VCD from the net, that buying the same movie on VHS.
If today i can have all my amiga games in a CD, why would i have them on floppys?
If you take this as an excuse, probably i didn't express myself the way i would liked...
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Old 29 July 2004, 04:03   #14
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Well quite a few people would download a fuzzy quality VCD from the net then buy the DVD or even rent the DVD, that doesn't make it ok.
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Old 29 July 2004, 04:05   #15
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I don't have a problem with downloading crap either, as I said, I did it myself a lotof years ago. But I never considered it as "collecting" anything. I wasn't saying "leeching" is lame and "collecting" is leet, I said leeching is a waste of time if you are not doing anything with what you leech.
Quote:
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Maybe is just me, but i classify a "leecher" as someone who downloads everything just to have it all, not to make use of it....
Read the original post. What does he say? He's not playing shit. You agreed that you are not playing anything either.

Your reasoning for not buying Amiga games is flawed at best Eny-. I use the original disks ONCE to install them to my HD and play them forever. And I have a perfect copy of the original, with no glitches, with all the manuals, boxes, everything.

Maybe the thing here is that a collector sees some sort of VALUE in what he collects, be it a collection of beer caps or a collection of sportscars. The value could come from the actual monetary value of the items in the collection, or from the effort taken to collect such items, or other source of value to the collector. I see absolutely no value in amassing disk/rom images off the net. You can google for it. You can have some "leet" links. you can IRC. You can get access to one of the EABers FTPs. Just ask and you get it. It's that easy. No value. At least to me.
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Old 29 July 2004, 04:10   #16
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If we refer distribution of old software as piracy then tosec people should be arrested because of helping piracy. We should also should shut the zone down and ask rck about the previous crimes that took place around here.
 
Old 29 July 2004, 05:04   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira
IThe value could come from the actual monetary value of the items in the collection, or from the effort taken to collect such items
Does this mean that George's Complete Amiga TOSEC collection is worth more than Bungle's, because George downloaded his on a 56k modem over several months and with many many hangup headaches and Bungle downloaded it in a day because he has a super-fat connection ?

Zippy on the other hand got given a few DVD-R's from George so his collection is worth practically nothing ?

I think value needs seperating into 2 types of values. The sentimental/usefulees value to the owner, and the price somebody is willing to pay for it.

With my Zippo Lighter for example, it's worth probably $2 on ebay. But to me it is priceless, I've had the lighter for ages and it was a gift that I've taken care of.

With the TOSEC Collections, they're worth a few dollars on ebay if you can find a ignoranus to buy them and get it sold before ebay cops find out. But who can judge what somebody else's collection of downloads is worth to them?


And as for Leaching, let's go back to the original term.....

A leach is something that just sucks your blood. It don't then go off and pump your blood into someone else (maybe a guy who needs blood), it sucks blood from everything purely for it's own greedy means.

If someone on here blags a few FTP accounts and goes on a download mission and manages to accrue the entire TOSEC collection (just because he can) and the proceeds to keep it sitting on his harddisk playing a few games, or burning it onto CDR/DVD and sitting it on top of a shelf to gather dust then yeah, you could say he has leached.

If on the other hand someone does all the above yet keeps the files on their own FTP for others to download then they are not a leach. They are a contributor - of course the ratio of leaches to contributors is something like 1000:1 when it comes to issues like this. People could also be doing other things with the files, surely nobody would begrudge the HOL team leaching every TOSEC disk there is? Or the WinUAE testers?

As I have heard certain people who run FTP's say, if someone is posting plenty of useful/entertaining posts on here or doing useful things for the Amiga "Community" then that person can leach their files all they want. They are contributing in other ways.
 
Old 29 July 2004, 06:00   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
Does this mean that George's Complete Amiga TOSEC collection is worth more than Bungle's, because George downloaded his on a 56k modem over several months and with many many hangup headaches and Bungle downloaded it in a day because he has a super-fat connection ?
No. It's the same thing. When I started I downloaded neogeo roms, the huge ones, as they got released (0-day shit if you like to call it so) off my 28.8 modem. It still had or has no value whatsoever, even more, I was more stupid, wasting precious telephone time in that worthless shit. I think it would have been cheaper to buy an used neogeo cartridge off ebay than doing that crap, and most importantly, much more rewarding, which is what makes "collecting" IMO.

It's got NO value at all. Can anybody tell me what's so valuable about amassing ROM and disk images? form a personal point of view.
Quote:
If on the other hand someone does all the above yet keeps the files on their own FTP for others to download then they are not a leach. They are a contributor - of course the ratio of leaches to contributors is something like 1000:1 when it comes to issues like this. People could also be doing other things with the files, surely nobody would begrudge the HOL team leaching every TOSEC disk there is? Or the WinUAE testers?
They wouldn't be leeching. You know the difference. Leechers have been described already: people that amass shit and do nothing productive with them, in most cases, not even play them. This is not teh case with FTP hosts, HOL team, etc!
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Old 29 July 2004, 06:05   #19
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You'll never taste the sweetness of being a rom-whore!
 
Old 29 July 2004, 06:09   #20
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I never was a rom whore but I liked to be up to date with certain releases. As I said I used to be around the neogeo craze and downloaded all the roms 0day off my 28.8. each bloody game took me like 6 hours on the phone. The phonebills were worth two neogeo carts :P
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