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Old 27 June 2004, 15:42   #21
stainy
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ahhh

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And didn't Microprose Soccer had some kind of aftertouch way before Kick Off?
Ahh but this was called banana shot power or something, I remember Dino saying that was totally different to his aftertouch !
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Old 27 June 2004, 19:44   #22
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Originally Posted by stainy
Ahh but this was called banana shot power or something, I remember Dino saying that was totally different to his aftertouch !
In the same way that Giana Sisters was totally different to Super Mario Bros?
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Old 27 June 2004, 20:11   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant512
In the same way that Giana Sisters was totally different to Super Mario Bros?
Considering that...

1988: C64 release of Sensible Software's MicroProse Soccer
1989: Amiga/ST release of Dino Dini's Kick Off and Amiga conversion of MicroProse Soccer by Electronic Pencil

...can you explain how the relationship of MicroProse Soccer to Kick Off is the same as the relationship of Great Giana Sisters to Super Mario Bros?
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Old 28 June 2004, 10:51   #24
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It seems to me that this new deal with DC, gave Dino the egoism to start speaking crap again. Last year, when I met him in Italy and was working for a small Italian company (that went bunkrupt apparently) he sounded a bit more down to earth. I won't comment on what he said, but yes, Dino's egoism and snobbish behaviour is very high again.

Pitty, really pitty. Make me wanting to hide like an ostrich. Although I love Kick Off 2 more than any other game in this world, this interview is a disgrace for the gaming industry.

One thing that I want people to know, is that this interview doesn't represent what the Kick Off community is all about. We are gathering to play our beloved game and it seems to me that Dino spoiled the fun for us. Thanks Cody for letting us know.

Cody, do you have the full interview? I am interested in letting the other guys know about that and I want the whole content (I dont have access to retro gamer). PM me if you have it.
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Old 28 June 2004, 10:55   #25
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I typed up the full interview, so it's all there in the first post.
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Old 28 June 2004, 11:02   #26
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Okay, thanks..
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Old 28 June 2004, 14:30   #27
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So there is some kind of like "Morphos VS OS4" war going around between Kick Off and Sensible Soccer?
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Old 28 June 2004, 19:50   #28
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I am not a footie fan so I couldn't care less about which game is the better - apart from getting all versions preserved -, though if I wanted to ever take a look I'd buy ProEvo3 instead of anything mentioned here
However one thing I want to point out is that it is very easy to take answers out of context - either on purpose, or by bad editing, or to take less paragraphs - and something that sounds interesting and genuine in the original text and context can easily be turned into a quote from an imaginary persona.
Don't jump onto conclusions ask the man himself, Dino is a cool and honest guy I don't see any reason why should he haved changed overnight. It seems to me it was the words or the context where they were said was adjusted a bit to fit some criteria/agenda the magazine/interviewer had.
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Old 28 June 2004, 19:52   #29
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I am not a footie fan so I couldn't care less about which game is the better - apart from getting all versions preserved -
You crack me up perhaps you should put this in your signature
 
Old 28 June 2004, 20:20   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFW
It seems to me it was the words or the context where they were said was adjusted a bit to fit some criteria/agenda the magazine/interviewer had.
That's a pretty big conclusion to jump to. Have you got any evidence to back up these allegations, apart from Dino Dini being a "cool and honest guy"?
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Old 28 June 2004, 20:55   #31
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I know the guy more than those words from a magazine by a journalist I do not know from a magazine which reliability I can not form an opinion on either.
So I do not. Instead I obviously put my experience against the one quoted there: I do not deny that.

Let me put it this way, something I am sure you would appreciate:
Someone quotes one very likely edited and shortened interview, and conclude that the guy has some serious issues, but he does not know that guy, only reads that one interview which may be partial or misquoted. So what he thinks could easily fall into the category "That's a pretty big conclusion to jump to" - to quote someone I also find a cool and honest guy

Just my 2ec and I conclude at that.
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Old 28 June 2004, 21:00   #32
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I have read other Dino Dini comments on the Internet - directly from the man himself. They show a similar attitude.

Perhaps you could find out from Dino whether the interview's been edited, misquoted or selectively cut short?

There is also the intro to the interview, which I didn't type up before:

"Dino-bites
We tracked down Kick Off developer Dino Dini to talk about his glorious gaming history - and the small matter of Sensible Soccer..."

If the writer/magazine is trying to smear Dino's reputation, I can imagine other ways to do it than calling his gaming history 'glorious'. Plus the magazine includes Kick Off and Player Manager both in the "Retro Gamer Eleven" best football titles.
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Old 28 June 2004, 21:08   #33
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No, actually quite the opposite is possible, that they are fan of Dino and do not realize that the edit - instead of emphasizing on how cool they think Kick Off is - creates a backfire effect and becomes less so favourable for the man

And yes, perhaps I can find out or better make an unedited new one about questions people would really like to know.
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Old 28 June 2004, 21:18   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFW
And yes, perhaps I can find out or better make an unedited new one about questions people would really like to know.
Ah, but with the new Dino interview (the one that would be conducted to make Dino look good), I'd still have the problem of not knowing him and so couldn't trust the written words any more than the old interview (the one supposedly conducted to make Dino look good, but which misfired because he said stupid things).
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Old 28 June 2004, 21:24   #35
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Absolutely.
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Old 28 June 2004, 22:05   #36
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So whats the big deal here. Some programmer had the skill and luck to code a great game and at the same time has a huge ego about it. You guys need to seperate the product from the developer who made it. Nobody codes in a vacuum, everything is built up from things they see and what others did.
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Old 29 June 2004, 00:20   #37
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Originally Posted by Unknown_K
So whats the big deal here. Some programmer had the skill and luck to code a great game and at the same time has a huge ego about it. You guys need to seperate the product from the developer who made it. Nobody codes in a vacuum, everything is built up from things they see and what others did.
Wise words. That's exactly the point in all this. A game has its own history regardless of the developers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyJarrett
Anyway, Stuart Campbell may not be the most pleasant of people to get into an argument with, but at least he respects the sanctity of logic in what he says. The Kick Off hardcore, on the other hand, slavishly follow the Dino Dini gospel, spread malicious rumours and show little understanding of any kind of middle ground.
Cody, I didn't want to comment on this, but it seems to me that you are taking things too far. Actually, I don't see your point to accuse Dino Dini in one case and say that Stu respects the sanity of logic in what he says on another.

In many cases, both Stu and Dino have been in their own world. As IFW, Dino Dini is a nice chap especially when not talking about Kick Off. I found many of his ideas about development excellent and very useful for my career as a developer. I haven't met Stu, and I am sure there may be things that will be nice talking with him. But he is like Dino when talking about Sensible Soccer and several other Sensible titles (he acts like Sensible's lawer in many cases).

One thing that I can't understand though, is that you accused me on the past about my ideas about KO2 and Stuart Campbell, but I see that you have the very same fanatism on this issue. I am not an admin or a moderator in these forums, but you are and you should always remember that with great powers comes responsibility. You cannot accuse people for something and then come and be the same as them.

I don't want to see this as a personal attack. You knew from the very beginning that you wanted to put fire in a warehouse full of gun powder.

My final thoughts is that YES, Dino looks like an idiot in this interview. But as I said, he is not a god, he expresses his own opinion and not the opinion of all these people who played KO2, as you said before. Would you say the same for Steward Campbell? I am playing KO2 because we gather with my pals, drink beers and eat pizzas and have a good laugh not because I think that Dino is a god or because Kick Off 2 was made my Dino Dini. I don't give a shit who makes computer games. All I care is whether I HAVE FUN with them and whether it worths spending my money on a particular title! Let this issue die FFS.
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Old 29 June 2004, 05:50   #38
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Hehe

I know one person who doesn't want this issue to die. Whenever one says "Sensible is a lot better than Kick Off in oh-so-many ways", I can see you (manicx) desperately defending your Kick Off as if it was your own child. I also remember you saying "Sensible Soccer is for people who don't know how to play Kick Off".



But seriously, Dino Dini leaves me with a sour feel in my stomach and really really makes it hard for me to enjoy playing a game he made. Thus is the human nature, you can't really enjoy a product from someone you really despise, and this kind of self-proclamation is bad enough to wipe out even the biggest Kick Off 2 fanatics off the face of the earth. I mean that in the way that they decide to boicott Kick Off 2.

I love KO2 as much as the other man, but for some reason, I'm losing my love for the game more and more ever since I learned how STUPID that man really was. I mean, it's bad enough to have an attitude, but I think one can't really be a smart person when the attiture reaches these hights.

Oh and the secret football game? Heh... he sincerely believe he can make a revolutionary football game just like that. Afterall, he IS the father of football, so why not?
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Old 29 June 2004, 17:26   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira
after reading this all I can say is that dino dini is a wanker!

What's this thing about "sensible got into MY patch"?? WTF? when did he buy the universal license for making every football game exclusively? I didn't see the creator of Space Invaders saying such stupid shit as this.

Is he really still making a football game ? Doens't he get bored? all fucking life doing football games which all are just like Kick Off?
As always, nailing the point right on the head Akira!
Maybe due to the constraints of remaining a solo developer, it seemed rather constrictive that he chose to stick to developing what were ultimately remixes of the same concept. I always found it ironic when in one interview he claimed he wasn't really a soccer fan!
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Old 29 June 2004, 18:45   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manicx
Cody, I didn't want to comment on this, but it seems to me that you are taking things too far. Actually, I don't see your point to accuse Dino Dini in one case and say that Stu respects the sanity of logic in what he says on another.

In many cases, both Stu and Dino have been in their own world. As IFW, Dino Dini is a nice chap especially when not talking about Kick Off. I found many of his ideas about development excellent and very useful for my career as a developer. I haven't met Stu, and I am sure there may be things that will be nice talking with him. But he is like Dino when talking about Sensible Soccer and several other Sensible titles (he acts like Sensible's lawer in many cases).

One thing that I can't understand though, is that you accused me on the past about my ideas about KO2 and Stuart Campbell, but I see that you have the very same fanatism on this issue. I am not an admin or a moderator in these forums, but you are and you should always remember that with great powers comes responsibility. You cannot accuse people for something and then come and be the same as them.

I don't want to see this as a personal attack. You knew from the very beginning that you wanted to put fire in a warehouse full of gun powder.

My final thoughts is that YES, Dino looks like an idiot in this interview. But as I said, he is not a god, he expresses his own opinion and not the opinion of all these people who played KO2, as you said before. Would you say the same for Steward Campbell? I am playing KO2 because we gather with my pals, drink beers and eat pizzas and have a good laugh not because I think that Dino is a god or because Kick Off 2 was made my Dino Dini. I don't give a shit who makes computer games. All I care is whether I HAVE FUN with them and whether it worths spending my money on a particular title! Let this issue die FFS.
You're right - I shouldn't have brought the Stuart Campbell thing up again.

I agree with you about the fun element!
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