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Old 26 July 2006, 15:38   #101
BippyM
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Originally Posted by Dastardly
Haha! only just noticed this reply.

Go back to playing Captive and leave the good games to those who know
bwahahahahahaahahaha

Been playing Nitro, Turrican2, Pinball Illusions and Settlers this past week
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Old 26 July 2006, 15:59   #102
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OMG!!!

So many classics being absolutely slandered.

Lotus II was one of the best 2 player racers ever... i'd nearly always beat someone by that fraction of a second.

Speedball II was an absolute gem of a game ... again at its best in multi player

Turrican was a great platformer

I'll admit some of the endless sequals to these games are over the top, but these should be 3 in anyones top 20

As for overrated

Well I could include a lot of the team 17 games there, they looked pretty.. and were reasonable quality at the time but not as good as the hype they got... definitely agree with the person that said 'Body Blows'. And probably all those doom clones too, i didnt get into any of them! .... for me Hired Guns was a little overrated too (probably along with other psygnosis stuff like the killing game show and so on)

I actually cant think of that many overrated games anymore, it was so long ago and if it was no good I just didnt play it and have since mostly forgotten it!
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Old 26 July 2006, 18:13   #103
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Dennis the menace - i never actually played this but i remember seeing lots of posters in magazines like amiga power, then it got bad reviews. Labyrinth of time - i spent so much time with my freinds trying to figure out some of those mazes and puzzles when we should of been chasing girls, well not literally. There the only ones i can remember at the moment. And i think i still quite like labyrinth of time.......
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Old 28 July 2006, 19:05   #104
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Originally Posted by Dastardly
...didnt you like Batman the Movie either? I still play that these days. Or is it too girly for you?

Actually I did dislike Batman the Movie but thats only because before I had my own amiga I could only play on one by going over to this other guys house and it was all he would let me play.
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Old 29 July 2006, 09:58   #105
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Originally Posted by Minuous
Xenon 2 - what crap graphics, they are all just shades of brown! Too much inertia of the player's ship, making it annoying to control.

Assassin, Strider, Gods, Alien Breed series - both rather crap I'm afraid.

Wings of Fury - very average, why does everyone think this is good?

Any Vulcan games - Absolute crap. I know the Amiga games scene was in a bit of a lull at the time but it was inexcusable for the reviewers to knowingly give such a crap game a high score.

Worms - why exactly is this supposed to be good?

Zool - it's OK but, as has been said, no Sonic-beater.

SWIV - bog-standard shoot-em-up, gimme Hybris (or Silkworm or Flying Shark) any day.

Superfrog - it's OK I guess but the way everyone raves on about it you would think it was really great!

You just mentionned most of my favourite games (except for the Vulcan games, I agree about that)
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Old 12 August 2006, 05:38   #106
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Originally Posted by Minuous about Worms 2 player
No, still waiting for Kaillera to be finished. But most games that allow simultaneous 2-player mode are better in that mode, it doesn't really prove anything to say this. So it might be alright in 2p mode but not in 1p mode, whereas a lot of other games (eg. Turbo, Firepower, Gauntlet 2, Stunt Car Racer etc.) are fun in either mode.

i know this thread is old, but i've had Worms (and worms DC) setup for playing on Kaillera since well before that post was made.... (always a good idea to check my list in the Kaillera section of the forum)

and its for the very reason you stated (that many games are much better in multiplayer) that i set it up! dont agree with Gauntlet 2 being any good on 1player though.... i love it on the Speccy, but all the other versions are too slow to be enjoyable on 1 player.


on-topic: I find BloodMoney over-rated myself.... it has a nice tune and the graphics look pretty at first, i just dont think it handles very well for a shoot-em-up.... gimmie Xenon II anyday!
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Old 12 August 2006, 11:46   #107
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Bards Tale, Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (and The City), and a lot of other fantasy SSI games (except the Pool of Radiance serie and spin offs)

i'm not sure if my hostility to them is wrongly placed and it is just a matter of the time passed from their publication and of the change of 1)attitude toward gameplay 2)patience of the user in learning the gameplay. of course when you are a kid, learning comes easier and you are more dedicated in understanding and you have more time and patience for it.
but now, i look at these games and they are hugely SLOW, without the interaction that they are famed to sport, they make you feel like a dumb and blind character in a sealed box trying to understand and affect what happens outside while you are you are quickly dying of a massive and sudden hemorroid and little goblins are throwing incendiary arrows at your knees.
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Old 16 August 2006, 16:37   #108
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Oh, dear, too many posts to read through... so I just have a go at it anyways, with the risk of repeating much already said:

Xenon II
- Crappy scrolling
- Crappy music (how tired doesn't one get of that damn loop after some 2 minutes or something)
- Jerky controls
- Monotomous and extremely repetative levels

Gods
- Crappy scrolling
- Crappy controls
- Jerky and SLOW controls
- With the above in mind: respawning monsters from hell (with such lousy controls the game renders almost impossible)
- Tedius level design, which at least to me, feels utterly uninspiring

Project X
+ Lovely graphics
+ Nice music and sound effects
+ Nice and unusual controls
- Too damn large levels
- Too damn hard
- Too repetative and monotomous levels (minus the hyperspeed one which is hillarious and fun)

Moonstone
- Buggy and very crash friendly
- Jerky controls
- Jerky movement of characters
- Almost impossible to beat thankt to the lousy controls (oh, a dragon, oh, I didn't manage to, damn, oh, game over? damn)

Quake
- The 68k ClickBoom version simply isn't playable, according to me. Not even on a 060. Yes, you can always alter the graphics to get some more FPS... but the game simply doesn't run as it was intended when initially released for the PC. Some people might feel that it is enough to make them satisfied. I don't. And I can't understand why ClickBoom even bothered about releasing the game (and neither can I understand why on earth most magazines reviewing the game went completely bonkers). Yes. It is Quake on the Amiga. But. No. It doesn't run ANYTHING like it was intended to run.

Ruff'n'Tumble
- I would have praised this game if it weren't for the fact that the scrolling is CATASTROPHAL. What? Jerky? What? 4-5 pixels at a time? It feels like playing an old MSX game with no hardware support for scrolling. I love the game in itself, but thanks to the scrolling I merely bother to play it for like 20 seconds before I get so upset that I just have to turn it off. WHAT ON EARTH WHERE THEY THINKING (I guess this one would do rather well in the other thread that is somewhat related to this thread, but thanks to the lousy scrolling I just have to rate this game low... really low)?

Oh, there's more... I'm just getting too upset to name more at the moment...

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Old 16 August 2006, 18:40   #109
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Oooooh, I forgot... one of the most over praised games ever. Shadow of the Beast. Utter crap. Technical masterpiece, yes, but game play wise? Crap.
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Old 16 August 2006, 20:39   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legerdemain

Xenon II
- Crappy scrolling
- Crappy music (how tired doesn't one get of that damn loop after some 2 minutes or something)
- Jerky controls
- Monotomous and extremely repetative levels

Gods
- Crappy scrolling
- Crappy controls
- Jerky and SLOW controls
- With the above in mind: respawning monsters from hell (with such lousy controls the game renders almost impossible)
- Tedius level design, which at least to me, feels utterly uninspiring
Fair enough everyones entitled to their opinion (however wrong ) but Id like to respond to 2 of your critisisms.

Xenon II

Ive never heard anyone critisise the music in Xenon II before. Were you around when it was originally released? The music was/is fantastic and as far as Im aware, groundbreaking in terms of games. I can understand your other critisisms to a certain extent, Xenon II hasnt aged as well as some other games but I still love it despite not being a shmup player.

Gods

"with such lousy controls the game renders almost impossible"

I and lots of people I know have completed Gods many times over. If you ever visit our site, check out the gods section of the forum to see some REAL hardcore Gods players. The only thing I can say is maybe Gods is impossible for YOU
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Old 16 August 2006, 21:26   #111
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Ive never heard anyone critisise the music in Xenon II before. Were you around when it was originally released? The music was/is fantastic and as far as Im aware, groundbreaking in terms of games. I can understand your other critisisms to a certain extent, Xenon II hasnt aged as well as some other games but I still love it despite not being a shmup player.
I don't know if I have missed out on something here. I do remember the hype, especially concerning the music. And, yes, it was VERY unusual to use a 'commercial' track as a soundtrack to a game. The title music and the ingame music is based around the same track. And the ingame music is played ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE GAME (unless there is something very wrong which my version of the game). No matter how groundbreaking it was back in the days, the 'theme' tends to get somewhat tedious rather quickly. I find it extremely monotomous. Actually, I do find the entire game rather monotomous in its design. R-Type for the SMS, which was released a whole year before Xenon II, feels way more dynamic (and has, according to me, a soundtrack worth to kill for, in comparasion, just like Gradius, or Salamander, or blah blah).


Quote:
I and lots of people I know have completed Gods many times over. If you ever visit our site, check out the gods section of the forum to see some REAL hardcore Gods players. The only thing I can say is maybe Gods is impossible for YOU
No, I am pretty sure I would be able to beat the game if I gave it some time. Problem is, I think the game is so dreadful to play, mostly because of its jerky controls and choppy scrolling but also thanks to the respawning enemies and rather bland level design, that I simply can't motivate myself to play the game from beginning to end. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people that finds this game rather simple to beat, but what I can't understand is how the game can be so praised by so many when it is, according to me, so extremely flawed.

It is way too obvious that Gods is a rather simple port from the Atari ST (correct me if I am wrong here). I mean, why haven't they bothered about using the Amiga hardware to make the scroll smooth (why did Bitmap Brothers NEVER do this? Not one single of their Amiga versions of their games runs in full 50FPS with smooth scroll)?

Update: Yep, I will check out the site, by the way... I've visited before, and I think it is a lovely site with really nice design and tonnes of information! It is a shame that I think that The Bitmap Brothers never managed to pull through this perfect Amiga game. I love the The Chaos Engine (but as usual I hate the jerky scrolling and unmotivated slowdowns which occur every now and then) and I enjoy Cadaver. Argh. I hate to love them. Or I love to hate them. Or I hate to have to hate them. I don't know which. I do a bit of all, actually. A love and hate relation.

Last edited by Legerdemain; 16 August 2006 at 22:23.
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Old 16 August 2006, 22:39   #112
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Re: Gods
Im not going to argue the case for all your points because there are people who dont like Gods and its not for everyone but....

As for bland level design, this just is plain wrong! You obviously havent put enough time into the game (because you dont like the other issues) to realise just how well designed the levels are. There are so many secret passages, traps, treasures, invisible walkways, multiple routes, speed bonuses and strategic elements that you can play it for years and not necessarily see everything Gods has to offer.

I understand all your critisisms except this one because its just wrong.
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Old 16 August 2006, 22:57   #113
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Well, in the end what matter isn't really what people think of the game... it is what oneself feels. I mean, what to me is a complete disaster can to others be pure joy. I mean, what to me feels like bland level design can to others be genius level design. It is a hard thing to discuss, as soon as ones leaves the technical aspects of a game (smooth scroll, responsive controls and such) and enters personal preferences things get really complicated. No matter how much I dislike the game there will still be people loving it. And luckily, there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 01 September 2006, 11:45   #114
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Is this thread about bad games?

Or about bad Players?

Because with all these people claiming Gods, Speedball 2, SWIV and Turrican "Suck", i'm left with the impression...

... do these games suck, or do YOU suck?

Because as Dastardly says, Gods has one of the most inventive level designs, secret passages, the Amiga's ever seen, one of the complainers complains about the "controls", yet, i never had a problem with them, nor any of the reviewers that gave them glowing scores, nor the hundreds or thousands of fans out there...

So, are you really simply telling us, that you suck at it? Because... there's a difference, between a game sucking, you you being a crap player - Being a crap gamer, doesn't automatically mean the game "sucks", it means you suck.

All footballs are round, if another guy can score, and you can't, it ain't the ball - It's you.

There's a difference.
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Old 01 September 2006, 11:56   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legerdemain
Gods

- With the above in mind: respawning monsters from hell (with such lousy controls the game renders almost impossible)
Liar, liar, your pants are on fire!

There's absolutely NO! respawning of monsters in GODS. Let me repeat this again, there is NOT a single monster that respawns in GODS. ONE!

Officers, arrest this liar! For crimes commited against the Bitmap Brothers - Put him in jail, now!
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Old 01 September 2006, 12:08   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultron
Is this thread about bad games?

Or about bad Players?

Because with all these people claiming Gods, Speedball 2, SWIV and Turrican "Suck", i'm left with the impression...

... do these games suck, or do YOU suck?

Because as Dastardly says, Gods has one of the most inventive level designs, secret passages, the Amiga's ever seen, one of the complainers complains about the "controls", yet, i never had a problem with them, nor any of the reviewers that gave them glowing scores, nor the hundreds or thousands of fans out there...

So, are you really simply telling us, that you suck at it? Because... there's a difference, between a game sucking, you you being a crap player - Being a crap gamer, doesn't automatically mean the game "sucks", it means you suck.

All footballs are round, if another guy can score, and you can't, it ain't the ball - It's you.

There's a difference.
i don't agree: while to say that a game is crap is totally arbitrary, it is also true that it doesn't exist a category called players in which you qualify if you don't suck at play. games are entertainment and the designers of the games put 2 differnt values in every game (among others that don't are so relevant in this context): 1) personal likeness 2) common language with the users.
the first comprehend all of the stuff you may or may not like because it's a preference of the designer: if you like it it's probable you'll buy the game. the second comprehend the stuff you may or may not PARTICULARY like but you are ENTITLED to understand and feel confortable with.
or else you start the game after having bought it, play a while, feel a crap for not being able to enjoy it and then toss it away swearing you will not buy one from the same producer ever.
what said about Gods and other games are valid points. it's not like to say they are utterly crap, but as for entertainment they appeal only to people that either by chance or by lot of application happens to get the handle of the gameplay, not to everyone, and i think that it could have been better at it.
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Old 01 September 2006, 14:11   #117
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Originally Posted by Ultron

Officers, arrest this liar! For crimes commited against the Bitmap Brothers - Put him in jail, now!
Right on!
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Old 02 September 2006, 13:42   #118
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Is this thread about bad games? Or about bad Players? Because with all these people claiming Gods, Speedball 2, SWIV and Turrican "Suck", i'm left with the impression... ... do these games suck, or do YOU suck?
The last time I played through Turrican II i had 35 lives left when I beat The Machine. I've even played through the game without dying one single life. As for the original Turrican I did beat it the first time I played it (which was rather recently). I love the Turrican series... and it doesn't bother me that the games are way too easy for their own good, because what they have to offer (Turrican II in general) is to me amongst the best of what the Amiga platformers has to offer.

Gods, on the other hand... I just can't bother to play it through, because there are so many things which bothers me with the game in itself. I played it a bit a couple of days ago, just to be sure I wasn't ranting more than I actually should... but, after a couple of levels I got so fed up with it all that I had to quit. Of course there can be people out there that loves the way you control the character... loves the way that the player slowly turns when you change direction... or loves the way that when you have started a jump can't do anything about it if, or when, you realise that you are jumping straight into an enemy, or a hole, or some traps, or whatever... or simply loves the way the slow controls adds to the challange... but, on the other hand, I will never ever believe that people wouldn't prefer the game to run smoothly with perfect 50Hz 1 pixel scroll if they had the option to do so. It makes the game feel extremely dated, to me, and makes Bitmap Brothers look like a company which didn't bother about using the Amiga hardware while porting the game because they were too lazy. But, though, they do use the copper. Which is nice. In general I think the entire game looks really nice... graphics wise... but that is pretty much all the praise it can get from me. So, no, I can't say that agree with your theory on me (or people in general) being lousy players just because they dislike game x or y. I think it is a matter of personal opinion on what is good and what is not, rather.


Quote:
Because as Dastardly says, Gods has one of the most inventive level designs, secret passages, the Amiga's ever seen, one of the complainers complains about the "controls", yet, i never had a problem with them, nor any of the reviewers that gave them glowing scores, nor the hundreds or thousands of fans out there...
But neither have I read any magazines giving ClickBoom Quake a low score because of how slowly it runs. It plays nothing like it was intended to play when originally designed. To me, the game is a pain to play through, just because it runs so damn slow and offers slowdowns whenever some action starts to take place or when the environments are getting too wide and 'open'. Just because 'the masses' love something, doesn't have to mean that it is pure quality... rather, I'd like to say that it is somthing that simply 'appeals to the masses'. Quake got rave reviews, I think, because it was Quake on the Amiga (finally) rahter than being a good and really playable port.


Quote:
So, are you really simply telling us, that you suck at it? Because... there's a difference, between a game sucking, you you being a crap player - Being a crap gamer, doesn't automatically mean the game "sucks", it means you suck.
Your logic fails to impress me. To me, claiming to have the opinion that game x or y sucks does in no way equal to having to suck at playing game x or y.

There are people out there that feels perfectly fine with loading up Shadow of the Beast 2 during a couple of minutes, watch the loooong introduction seqeuence, play for 1-2 minutes and try to memorize everything, die, watch the loooong ending sequence, wait for the title to load, watch the looooong intro sequence again, play for another 3-4 minutes and try to memorize everything, die, watch the loooong ending and repeat this process until they have learnt the entire game and finally will manage to beat it. That is just not my idea of what fun gaming is like. And, when I claim that Shadow of the Beast 2 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to 'difficult' and slow loading to ever be able to be a 'good' game, I don't consider myself a lousy player. Shadow of the Beast 2 did manage, just like the original SotB, to impress thousands of players with it great looking graphics and for some reason that seemed to be enough to make people overlook the 'faults' of the game. I am pretty confident that many people still today praise this game without ever having played it for more than a couple hours and never managed to achieve pretty much anything in order to complete the game. They just feel too nostalgic to see what can be seen if you look at the game from a different perspective. And, I am pretty sure that some people have spent countless hours on the game up until the point where they finally have managed to complete it. Just to go around telling people that it isn't impossible at all to beat without cheating and that one just have to give it some time to be able to beat it and finally see the greatness of it all. Does all this make SotB2 a good game, though? No, I think not. I think it still managed to be nothing but a pretty looking tech-demo with utter crap playability, in terms of the masses being able to play it or not. A majority of the people simply didn't bother about playing the game because they found it too slow loading and hard, and I REFUSE to think that it has got anything at all to do with those people being lousy players or not.


Quote:
All footballs are round, if another guy can score, and you can't, it ain't the ball - It's you. There's a difference.
Yes. But then there is the matter of personal taste, which you simply seem to have overlooked. There is always the possibility of being logical. If one guy can be logical, and you can't, it ain't the logic - It's you. There's a difference.

Last edited by Legerdemain; 02 September 2006 at 13:57.
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Old 02 September 2006, 13:54   #119
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@Legerdemain; That's a long response (which you shouldn't have to give) but very well put. Totally agree with you

@Ultron; just my to 2 cents but you really need to appreciate other people's opinions without putting them down / trying to burn them or put them into catagories...

People are all different and there is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions. Just because somebody doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean they "suck" or whatever

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Old 02 September 2006, 14:26   #120
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@Legerdemain; That's a long response (which you shouldn't have to give) but very well put. Totally agree with you
why noone totally agree with me ever? kiddin
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