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Old 03 June 2004, 10:52   #41
ant512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye
Seriously, why the hell do all of you people like amiga anyway?
The hardware was more advanced than anything else, as was the OS, it had some great graphics programs, great sound programs, and it was easy to develop for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye
I mean, looks like it's suddenly a sport attacking great quality games. How can games that defined the amiga, like Lemmings, Lotus, Sensible Soccer, Kick Off 2, SWOS, Speedball 2, Lionheart, Turrican, Chaos Engine, Gods, Cadaver, Rick Dangerous, Monkey Island 1/2 and so on even be considered overrated games?
Because different people like different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye
I'm getting my doubts about you people.

This thread isn't "overrated games". It's a "games I don't like and therefore is a pile of trash" thread.
I consider games that I don't like to be bad games. Do you like all games? If not, do you think games that you don't like are good games? Did you buy a copy of Rise of the Robots, and if so, do you still play it now, because all games are good games/you like all games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye
And out of curiousity, do you feel better by stating you don't like a classic title?
Yep.
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Old 03 June 2004, 11:51   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant512
I consider games that I don't like to be bad games. Do you like all games? If not, do you think games that you don't like are good games? Did you buy a copy of Rise of the Robots, and if so, do you still play it now, because all games are good games/you like all games?
I don't wanna start an argument, but I certainly don't consider all games I don't like to be bad games. They're just not my cup of tea. If I say I don't like a game and calling a game crap, it's almost an offence to all others who DO like the game. Don't you hate all the stupid teenagers running around screaming "Counter Strike rulez" and if you show them a great classic game that you really really love they say "LOL, look at the gfx man! There's no bloodzor and you can't kill everyone and the sound is just terrible!!!"

Exactly the same as saying all games you don't like is crap. Narrowsighted is a word that describes this.

Oh, and no, I didn't buy Rise of the Robots. Unfortunately I had very little money back then, so I couldn't afford more than 3 games in the entire career as an amiga gamers in the heyday. At least I've more than made up for it now, by collecting original games today and supporting projects that I believe in (like CAPS and WHDload).
Also, no I don't consider a game like Rise of the Robots very good. That's because, wait for it, it's a bad game. There IS a difference between good games and bad games, regardless if you like it or not. I really hate most FPS's but that doesn't mean FPS only have bad games. I just don't like them, that's all.


And please, again, if I sound angry or harsh or out to pick a fight, that's not the case. Just had to comment your logic there, no offence.
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Old 03 June 2004, 12:06   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drake1009
'It more reminds me of a better version of alien breed if anything.'

Yes it does, but Alien Breed is just Gauntlet with aliens.

Quote:
Originally posted by JudasEZT

'I dont think that be a gauntlet-clone be a reason to devaluate the game. Because the game is funny and long,.. and technically is superb.'
I'm devaluing it just becasue it's a clone, but becasue it's an inferior clone, just as the Alien Breed series were.

Quote:
Originally posted by Burseg

'OK, to be precise, the only common things between Gauntlet and CE are:
1-Both have top-down view
2-In both, you can direct the character in every 45 degrees.

Reason for 2 is simple, joysticks are made this way! This leaves us with the similarity in the perspective that means we can also relate every shoot'em up with space invaders and every console rpg with final fantasy 1.'
It's not just the similarity in perspective that is similar though. The push scrolling in eight directions is also the same. Most of the differences you claim are for the most part cosmetic. The only real gameplay difference is how the energy system and walking into enemies. All single screen shoot-em-ups, such as Galaga, Gorf, or Galaxian are very much clones of Space Invaders. To suggest that the similarities between Chaos Engine and Gauntlet mean that all shoot-em-ups are like Space Invaders is complete wrongess. Gauntlet and Chaos Engine have far more in common than Space Invaders and R-Type.

Quote:
Originally posted by Burseg

'Sure there are different characters to select but you also select from three characters in golden axe which is like.....UNREAL TOURNAMENT RIGHT!?!?!?!?!?!???!'
If you can't see that Chaos engine is a restyled version of an eight-way push scrolling shooter then you are blind becaue that is exactly what Gauntlet is. Where did I ever compare to games of distinctly different styles.

You need to reconceptualize your theory on gaming styles. Back to school for you.

Just to remind everyone:

I'm not saying these games are crap, they were good, but not as good as many Amiga fan boys consider them to be.

Last edited by Bombjacker; 03 June 2004 at 17:32.
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Old 03 June 2004, 16:01   #44
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Vbulletin forums have a [QUOTE] tag. All these "Burseg said that...and the bastard even said that..." feels like I'm in a court or something

I'm not falling for the rest of the trolling sorry!
 
Old 03 June 2004, 17:30   #45
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there my post has been changed just to please Mr Pedantic.
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Old 03 June 2004, 17:33   #46
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Enough nonsense - let's get back to the topic.
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Old 03 June 2004, 19:42   #47
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I find all ocean games except robocop 3 quite overrated.
 
Old 03 June 2004, 20:53   #48
Mr Creosote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye
Seriously, why the hell do all of you people like amiga anyway? I mean, looks like it's suddenly a sport attacking great quality games. How can games that defined the amiga, like Lemmings, Lotus, Sensible Soccer, Kick Off 2, SWOS, Speedball 2, Lionheart, Turrican, Chaos Engine, Gods, Cadaver, Rick Dangerous, Monkey Island 1/2 and so on even be considered overrated games? I'm getting my doubts about you people.
Because not everybody shares the same 'mainstream view'? Also, if you look carefully, you'll see that most of the games you listed there were mentioned by different people. So each of them is considered overrated / disliked not by 'everyone'. It's also quite telling that you just chose seemingly random examples of what has been classified as 'overrated' in this thread. So basically what you're saying is that if you personally disagree with something being overrated, it's shocking, but if you're indifferent about a game, it's ok to slack it off?

Quote:
This thread isn't "overrated games". It's a "games I don't like and therefore is a pile of trash" thread.
Again, if you read carefully, you'll see that most 'entries' have been backed up very decently, and only very few actually contain the verdict 'crap'/'trash'. I agree with some reasons, I don't agree with others. However, I see nothing shocking or heretic about any. Probably because I've learned to accept other people's views.

Quote:
And out of curiousity, do you feel better by stating you don't like a classic title?
Ah, so now it's forbidden to talk about things which probably weren't perfect in the 'good old days'. Please, take off the pink glasses!

What a boring world this would be if everybody was the same...
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Old 03 June 2004, 21:40   #49
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Why do people always seem to judge my posts as flaming posts? I was not flaming, but people keep flaming me back for my posts.

Also, why does everybody seem to ignore the "disclaimer" I usually put at the end?

I'm just shocked that suddenly the games that are considered among the greatest games ever suddenly is judged as overrated. I also explained in my last post that I don't consider games I don't like BAD or overrated. I just accept they're not my cup of tea, but I can see the quality in most of these titles.

And finally, I think overrated is the wrong choice of words. Most of the replies to this post is much more an answer to "which classic quality titles do you NOT like, that almost everyone else like?". It's not overrated. If it's overrated, a game must be considered bad by almost anyone but the press. If the press hypes the game and calls it the best game ever, it's overrated if about 99% of the gamers don't like the game.

That's what I meant. I have no problem with people not liking a lot of quality games. I myself don't like Rick Dangerous or Chaos Engine as much I like to, but I don't consider them overrated. I just didn't enjoy them as much as anyone else.

But I guess the term "overrated" is used in a lot more loose sense than it should.
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Old 03 June 2004, 21:44   #50
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Oh, a good example of what I meant is on the box of Football Glory. On the box it says, and I quote "The Best arcade soccer game EVER". It's a quote from CU AMIGA, an otherwise excellent magazine. I can see why some people like this game better than SWOS or Kick Off, but there's no doubt that this game WAS overrated.
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Old 03 June 2004, 23:01   #51
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Xenon2 for sure. It got reviews pretty high. defined as the best vertical shootemup ever. Even rereleased with that slogan. but I do not know anyone who truely liked it.

Also I would add JimPower. it got great reviews at least here in spain, but the game has horrible sprites, ugly (with exceptions) backgrounds and a very doubtable gameplay and level design.

BloodMoney also got great reviews, but I guess Im the only man who liked it. (also I must to confess that I arrived to endlevel boss to Xenon2 without cheat)

IronLord and DefenderOfTheCrown I guess they are nearly as playables as SpaceAce or Dragons“Lair games.
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Old 04 June 2004, 06:15   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye
Seriously, why the hell do all of you people like amiga anyway? I mean, looks like it's suddenly a sport attacking great quality games. How can games that defined the amiga, like Lemmings, Lotus, Sensible Soccer, Kick Off 2, SWOS, Speedball 2, Lionheart, Turrican, Chaos Engine, Gods, Cadaver, Rick Dangerous, Monkey Island 1/2 and so on even be considered overrated games? I'm getting my doubts about you people.

This thread isn't "overrated games". It's a "games I don't like and therefore is a pile of trash" thread.

And out of curiousity, do you feel better by stating you don't like a classic title?
I don't think this was well said at all - I do not see anything wrong with stating your opinions about games, even games that are deemed as 'classics.' Their status as classics is just a title, and should not make them invulnerable to criticism.

And as has been stated, why should we like and accept what is the mainstream view? I certainly don't. Do you simply accept the mainstream? Do you listen to Britney Spears and do what everyone else does? I hope not. There are enough mindless people out there who cannot think for themselves and who are zombies living off whatever is fed to them.

And yes, I did feel good about making those comments, because that is what a democratic forum such as this one is for. We are individuals, and we have the right to say what we want about a game, no matter how 'good' it is supposed to be, no matter how much hype is surrounding it.
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Old 04 June 2004, 11:44   #53
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I disagree because amiga games were never a large "industry" that could be compared to music or movie industries that has the potential to reach the masses. Today's gaming industry is a bit like it but computer games weren't a common entertainment before the discovery of internet and therefore the average guy's discovery of the computer. We can't say there were "mainstream" amiga games because we'll have to define the ones out of the mainstream otherwise. When you opened a game mag you could see many games released that month, including the worst ones. Now can this happen with music or movies? There are good games and people who bash them to show how smart they are in their alternative means. I must ADD it's OK not to like any game as a personal preference. I don't like beast because of it's impossible gameplay for example but it's still an important milestone.

About the "clone" thing. Shadow Dancer is a Shinobi clone whereas other games which you move the character across platforms, you die in one hit and you shoot bullets horizontally like jim power AREN'T although jim power and shinobi I listed contain lot more relevance than Gauntlet and CE. You can play shadow dancer like shinobi but the gameplay comparison between gauntlet and CE is impossible. You can't play them the same way, if you think you can then you didn't understand at least one of them. In gauntlet, your goal is to find to exit and save your skin escaping from tons of other monsters. Unnecessary figthing will move you closer to death but in CE, you should examine the area carefully and find secrets for complete experience, as the designers intended. There are not zounds of enemies but the existing ones are deadlier. There is no character development in gauntlet. You don't make metres long walls disappear with a single key in CE, I can go on forever. The experience and the gameplay is totally different.
 
Old 04 June 2004, 11:56   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burseg

There is no character development in Gauntlet.
There is in Gauntlet 4 for the megadrive.

Quote:
Shadow Dancer is a Shinobi clone.
From your argument about the differences between Gauntlet and CE making them uncomparable, I'm surprised you made the comparison between Shadow Dancer and Shinobi. From your reasoning: In Shadow Dancer you have a dog and therefore the tactics involved in depsatching enemies is different, and therefore makes the gameplay different.

Anyway enough of this stupid argument the forum is supposed to be about what games we thought were/are overated on the Amiga not a comparison between games thread.
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Old 04 June 2004, 11:57   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burseg
Today's gaming industry is a bit like it but computer games weren't a common entertainment before the discovery of internet
Lewis: Hey Clark! What's that thing over there?
Clark: My God, Lewis! I think it's the internet! Hey, we've discovered the internet!
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Old 04 June 2004, 13:02   #56
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Muzkat: I won't reply to your post, simply because you misjudged post and appearantly didn't understand MY post.
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Old 04 June 2004, 13:55   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant512
I consider games that I don't like to be bad games.
Possibly the worst idea ever. If I don't like a game doesn't make it crap, same goes for people, if I don't get along with someone doesn't make em a crap person, just not to my liking.

I'm quite shocked by some of the games appearing on this list, some of em are games I love, not because of nostalgia (well some) but a lot of them I've got into recently.

I personally loved playing Assassin, really enjoyed Zool (albeit not as much as some magazine apparently did), I love Alien Breed, and for some reason I really like the graphics whereas a lot of people don't (there was a thread on game graphics once, I think I was the only one to like T17's graphic style )

Now back onto topic... games I think are overated...

I think Xenon 2 was greatly overrated, it's a good game and all just not as good as everyone made out.

Shadow of the Beat 1+2 The first one was a visual treat but that was about it, very dull repetitive, unforgiving gameplay. Number 2 was dull as hell, was damn impossible. Number 3 on the other hand was the best of the lot, some good puzzles, excellent music (as always) and some achievable goals!

Magic Pockets A very dissapointing game from a superb software house. Shame on them. No idea why, it's just not fun to play.
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Old 04 June 2004, 14:09   #58
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Possibly the worst idea ever. If I don't like a game doesn't make it crap, same goes for people, if I don't get along with someone doesn't make em a crap person, just not to my liking.
Perhaps I should have said "games I actively dislike".

Blimey, the pedantry! It's like posting on Usenet.
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Old 04 June 2004, 14:11   #59
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Sorry but I wouldn't call that pedantic in any way. Not AT ALL.
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Old 04 June 2004, 14:13   #60
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StarEye: The fact that you consider the replies to your post 'flaming' backs up my point perfectly by itself, so there's no need to reply in detail anymore. I'd just like to add that there is no 'objective judgement' (as in: it doesn't exist). So what else do you expect then subjective views being used as arguments? Also, I strongly disagree with your definition of 'overrated', as it again implies there is some 'common truth' as defined by 'predominent opinion'.

Burseg: I disagree with your disagreement There was 'mainstream' in the days of the Amiga just like there is today. The difference between mainstream and non-mainstream has just become larger. As for your point about computers themselves not being 'mainstream', that's no problem. We'll just have to define the group of computer users as the 100% to base all of our numbers on, and every common definition works again So, to get to the point, I'd define 'mainstream' as anything corporately produced which most people of the target audience (Amiga/computer users) liked. Take Lucasfilm/Lucas Arts Adventures or games like Dune 2 - that's mainstream. What's not mainstream? Anything produced by some 'bedroom programmer', anything largely overlooked by the (computer) public.
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