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Old 24 April 2004, 16:26   #1
DeCreator
 
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WHDLoad installs from CAPS images

Not knowing anything about programming, what is the difference between making a whdinstall on a real amiga with an original disk and making an install in winuae and using IPF's ?

As more and more games are being released via CAPS but with no whdinstall maybe some of those wanted disks images on whdload site can be done via IPF instead ? for example Fantasic Voyage was requested in 2002 by Abaddon but now there is an IPF available maybe this one can now ben done ?
 
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Old 24 April 2004, 20:19   #2
RetroMan
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Since the IPF Images are an 100% copy of the original game disc, there is no difference between making a whdload install with the Original on a real Amiga and an IPF on WinUAE
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Old 25 April 2004, 00:25   #3
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Actually RetroMan, I would disagree with that

Technically, there is no difference, of course - otherwise something would be rather wrong with what we are doing!

But by installling from an original disk - you really have no guarantee that the disk is unmodified (virus, user hacking, hiscores, save games, corruption, etc.) and has no errors (bitrot, dirt, etc.). We see this *all the time* it is quite frightening how many original games submitted that we can't use.

But anyway, by installing from the CAPS images, you do have this guarantee!
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Old 25 April 2004, 01:36   #4
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I'm not really talking about the installing part, but the actual programming of an installer
 
Old 25 April 2004, 02:05   #5
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@fiath

I only refer to ORIGINAL UNMODIFIED WRITE PROTECTED discs of course
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Old 25 April 2004, 05:20   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroMan
@fiath

I only refer to ORIGINAL UNMODIFIED WRITE PROTECTED discs of course
Which are a bit scarce according to my experience...

Anyway even if you are using an ipf image there is no need to create an install on an emulator, you can extract the disk data natively using the 68k or ppc library on a miggy.
I am not a whdl author, but I think while it is certainly possible to create an install under uae, it is good practice to test it fully on a real miggy before release. You don't have an mmu emulated, so catching illegal accesses and stuff like that - that whdl patches take good care of and is necessary to run old stuff on anything better than a 68000 - practically automated with an mmu is not so straightforward - yet.
On the other hand many of the tricky stuff that can be a nightmare to trace on the real thing, is dead easy under uae.
Also some recent debugger features can be very helpful as well.

So imho both have its advantages and drawbacks.

Strictly speaking of the images themselves they are guaranteed to be "factory new" - as good or bad as the original is - and knowing that is certainly helpful for development. Some games can be a nightmare to obtain... and it is like when finally a good copy is found.
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Old 25 April 2004, 05:53   #7
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Originally Posted by IFW
Some games can be a nightmare to obtain... and it is like when finally a good copy is found.
Shadow of the Beast is a good case in point, and when I realized some time back that CAPS (at that time) didn't yet have a good dump of such a classic game, that sure helped me to realize that there really was a strong need for folks to do what they could to provide dumps. The information listed on the CAPS site about the protections on this and other titles was quite interesting to read, by the way. It gives me a greater appreciation for how much time and effort the CAPS team puts into the project, that's for sure.
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Old 25 April 2004, 12:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiath
Actually RetroMan, I would disagree with that

Technically, there is no difference, of course - otherwise something would be rather wrong with what we are doing!

But by installling from an original disk - you really have no guarantee that the disk is unmodified (virus, user hacking, hiscores, save games, corruption, etc.) and has no errors (bitrot, dirt, etc.). We see this *all the time* it is quite frightening how many original games submitted that we can't use.

But anyway, by installing from the CAPS images, you do have this guarantee!
Yes, but this is no use when it comes to real Amigas, is it?
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Old 25 April 2004, 12:48   #9
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Having a good image is a good thing no matter what you use.
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Old 25 April 2004, 13:18   #10
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But you can't write them back to disk, and you can't mount them as virtual disks either, so without going through a longwinded process of using WinUAE first (assuming you have a PC and want to set up WinUAE) you can't do anything with them...
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Old 25 April 2004, 13:36   #11
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Actually... there is a 68k and a ppc port of uae, both fully using the ipf library of the respective versions.
Also direct support of library is being worked on by the whdl team, which will happen to be public whenever it is ready.
Also if you are really determined you can make a device using the library and the supplied documentation or wait for Ville9 to finish his university grade which takes all of his time recently, after that he will do it anyway.

So there are plenty of options already, and more to come in due time.
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Old 25 April 2004, 14:29   #12
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A 68k port of UAE? Isn't that really insane? Thats like a Mac emulator on a Mac.... they have uses sometimes, but it seems rather useless...
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Old 25 April 2004, 14:32   #13
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Apparently some people are using it, but I am not so sure when, why and how
The ppc stuff is probably a bit faster
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Old 25 April 2004, 14:35   #14
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The PPC one is most likely the one for OS4 which is needed as A1s and OS4 can't run lots (most) of the old software.
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Old 25 April 2004, 14:49   #15
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AmigaUAE is very usefull for Amithlon, since Amithlon itself won´t emulate any custom chips .... with AmigaUAE you are able to play the old games on it and yes, there really are people that use Amithlon systems as their only OS on X86 machines
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Old 25 April 2004, 14:56   #16
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Cool, thanks for the info RetroMan
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Old 27 April 2004, 07:24   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeCreator
Fantasic Voyage was requested in 2002 by Abaddon but now there is an IPF available maybe this one can now ben done ?
Abaddon was sent that game, but IIRC he never finished patching it (along with a bunch of other games) because he found it too difficult via emulation without the benefit of a MMU. At the time he was planning to buy an Amiga set-up, but due to cost and a general lack of time for patching he became inactive again. Whether he returns to patching is anyone's guess.
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Old 27 April 2004, 07:31   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enverex
A 68k port of UAE? Isn't that really insane? Thats like a Mac emulator on a Mac.... they have uses sometimes, but it seems rather useless...
It's not too flash speed-wise. PPC port is okay on 604 cards, but may be sluggish on 603 cards.
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Old 27 April 2004, 07:32   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroMan
AmigaUAE is very usefull for Amithlon, since Amithlon itself won´t emulate any custom chips .... with AmigaUAE you are able to play the old games on it and yes, there really are people that use Amithlon systems as their only OS on X86 machines
You're a sick man Retro
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